TMNT Talkback "Turtles Forever" (Spoilers)

No one is ever truly defeated in these cartoons unless they are KILLED.



Simple solution. Channel 6 building rebuilt.



April stopped wearing the jumpsuit when she still worked for Channel 6. So that excuse doesn't really work.

April was captured and there were no Turtles to rescue her. We don't know what fate befell her and the mutant banana. It was left loose and vague. The banana could've made her his wife or something.



So why can't Krang get another android body? He would switch from that body to his little walker thing sometimes as well.
 
Shredder was planned to be an Utrom right from the start of the show, there is no question about that. The show was planned in advance and we see Utrom Shredder in about the 6th episode of Season 2, and they had to be writing those episodes while Season 1 was just barely airing.

As for Demon Shredder, its the simple fact that Shredder is such a marketable villain that 4kids didn't want him gone from the show for too long. So making multiple Shredders with the same voice actor gave the illusion that Shredder was still around even though we knew it was a different character.

Let's face it, the cartoons cannot survive without Shredder. That's why the original series used Shredder for the first 8 seasons and why the 2k3 series had "a" Shredder for most of its run.

Without Shredder the Turtles lack of a signature villain to fight, and that's why he kept coming back.
 
I haven't seen it all yet (Tivo watching it) but if anyone's wondering about Mirage Leo's narration, it's because at that point, the Turtles were a direct parody of Frank Miller's Daredevil. And we all know how Miller loves his narration. (Hell, the first issue of TMNT implies the mutagen that hit the turtles was what gave Matt Murdock his powers)
 
Which were independent. You had to be a hardcore comic reader back in 1984 to know what TMNT was.



The 1990 movie was made because of the TV series!
 
Actually I was getting along fine without the Shredder. I was disppointed that they had to go and bring back the Shredder in another from for the BTTS season.
 
any chance nick will air this movie when they get the ninja turtules I don`t get the cw as I have at&t u verse but not really a fan of the cw except for smallville
 
Yeah, Serling probably got sent back to the future between the end of BTTS and this movie.

Keep in mind we didn't see Khan either. Guess he's still in jail. :D
 
Yes he has admitted to not being a fan of the OT, but I've never seen Peter Laird go out of his way to rip the OT, I would be wary of attributing any perceived slight against the OT turtles (jokes, characterizations, etc.) in Turtles Forever coming directly from Laird himself, you may need to look more toward the creative staff at 4Kids. And, I also don't believe he has ever denied the impact of the of the OT, and to some degree he does appreciate it, but for him, it's a thing of the past which he has very little emotional attachment to.
 
Ah that's right... the Technodrome was above ground when it got transported and just ended up underground. So my theory it's an alternative ending for episode 5 doesn't work at all. So it's some time when the Technodrome is on the surface.

I wouldn't say the 80s universe ends when the series ended as there could be more stories and Krang and Shredder certainly could have come back to be the villians again and even retrieve the Technodrome in some manner. Channel 6 could be rebuilt and April could have gone back to her old job. It's all quite plausible. It's not canon but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.



You know... given how the Technodrome gets moved all over the place throughout the series that's quite plausible.

Shredder Wars certainly could just be an alternative future but all we have to go off of is what they were planning to do. I don't consider that canon either but that's what they intended to do after Turtles Forever.

As for the status of the 2K3 universe. We'll never know for sure because this is the end. I suppose the most we could get for a confirmation is if a staff member tells us if Hun was going to be a mutant turtle if they continued the series along with a confirmation if Ch'rell is truely dead. This show has many alternative future deaths get erased so that wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

Actually having an 8th season focus on Hun leading a team of mutants would have been interesting since they generally did not have many mutants in the 2K3 continuity before Turtles Forever. I suppose the Foot scientists may have retained the knowledge of how to make mutagen though maybe they wouldn't have the materials. That could have led to a lot more homages to the old show potentially. Ah well... another one for the "same as it never was" blog.
 
They were getting along fine without a male Shredder at any rate as when the other Shredder's weren't around there was Karai posing as the Shredder or taking on the responbilities of The Shredder in the absense of her adopted father.

It may be true that TMNT cartoons can't survive long without a Shredder but the comics managed pretty decently as far as story telling goes. He's a very marketable villian though similar to a Sith Lord specifically Darth Vader in several respects and that was the point at least with the movies and cartoons.

Season 4 had some remarkable episodes in it without a Shredder and the ones with Karai as Shredder were also very good. But I didn't hate the idea of demon Shredder as they started setting things up as early as season 2 and even season 1 for an ancient Shredder to emerge at one point or another. It all flowed quite nicely with the martial arts themes of the series in general.

Cyber Shredder was where things got pretty halfshell so to speak. I don't think there was much planning involved in that one compared to the other versions of the Shredder in the 2003 canon. Shredder having a way to resurrect himself from mere data doesn't seem all that out of place despite that. He cloned himself, he built himself a few different bodies... so naturally one day he would find a way to revive himself through technology. But making Viral into Cyber Shredder felt way too "throw away" for my tastes. Surely they could have come up with a better way to bring back Shredder if they needed to but I would have liked to see the Turtles deal with their other foes a bit more in BTTS than they were allowed to.
 
And it suddenly occurs to me that I forgot to post my actual review. Mea culpa.

I liked it a lot. It was a lot of fun, and the most meta thing I have ever seen on Saturday morning. How meta was it? It almost reminded me of this year's Gathering Radio Play.

The focus is, of course on the 2003 Turtles. The 1987 Turtles play a huge role at this, and boy does that series get poked fun at a lot. The classic comic book Turtles appear... and I laughed my ass off. I love their parody of Frank Miller there.

Now, there seem to be two kinds of reactions coming from fans of the old cartoon. Some love it, and some are hating this.

This is another case of "people who grew up with something from the 80s and appreciate its aesthetic stupidity", and "people who vaguely recall something from their childhood that they assume must've been badass and epic and X-TREME because god forbid they admit to liking something juvenile when they were children"

The former loved "Turtles Forever," the latter did not.

I think telling this from the point of view of the 2k3 Turtles was the best move... in spite of this also being a conclusion to their series, they are the happy medium. The old cartoon Turtles are goofballs who take nothing seriously. The comic book versions are GRIMDARK! The 2k3 guys fall in between, and make a good POV for the audience.

So, there were three Shredders in this. The original petty criminal from the first Mirage comic (who died right away, and unlike other Shredders was a minor character), the 1987 goofball from the old cartoon who was Krang's henpecked husband, and the 2003 Utrom evil, sadistic mass murdering ninja master and warlord. Guess which one was the main villain of the piece.

Yes, Bebop and Rocksteady are in this, boy are they ever. So is Krang... '87 Shredder's wife. 2K3 Shredder's surrogate daughter, Karai also returns in this... and does something she should have done ages ago. And, Hun... loved what they did with him, he has a moment with '87 Raph that's priceless.

Speaking of, whoever did '87 Raph's voice sounded just like Rob Paulsen. I was impressed. The rest were okay, except for '88 Leo and Krang.

If I could have crammed two more cameos into this... '87 Toon Casey Jones... that harmless psychopath. And a cameo appearance from Agent Bishop (as a cameo leading the human assault on the Technodrome).

It was a lot of fun, I felt like a kid again.
 
Shame Karai got brushed aside in favour of Demon Shredder, I was enjoying her transition into full on villainy and she carried her father's legacy well. Guess the suits at the toy companies didn't like the idea of a female big bad.
 
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