TMNT Talkback "Turtles Forever" (Spoilers)

Simply put it lacked the magic put into the first movie and even the second, while the story itself is fine for the most part and most of the production values (with the exception of the Turtles themselves) are fine, this has a feeling of simply being out to milk the cash cow dry.

Sometimes movies lack that one intangible spark that speaks to the audience. And perhaps the biggest source of dislike comes from the side story of having Raph go all big brother on Yoshi when in previous movies he was all gung ho for fighting.

It just was a sudden change for Raph that lacked any real motivation. Ideally Mikey or even Leo would have mentored the kid. Raph went from hothead to softie within seconds when a story like that requires more tiem to tell.
 
He was the evil turtle on the 80's cartoon. He didn't appear that often. His color was black, he had pointed teeth, spikes on his arm and kneepads and always had a mad on for his "binky" - a palm tree. He was dumb as a brick (like most of the campy 80's characters) but also something of a powerhouse.

They seem to have gone and turned Hun (via the mutagen) into a darker 2K3 interpretation of him. Sort of an indirect callback I think.
 
It feels a bit mean spirited to me that's all. I think the only reference material about the 87 cartoon that the writers had to go with was the first five episodes and some stuff they heard about it. Making some missed opportunities in the jokes. Like instead of the random crap that's supposedly are "Anti-Technodrome Equipment" and instead show some of the more bizarre inventions like the Retro Catapult & the Cheap Skate. Maybe even throw in a remark about how they look more like toys. And what was with the noogie running gag, they never did anything like that in the old cartoon. Well, atleast not any that I remember anyway.
 
Why do you assume the guy hasn't seen it? You know it is actually possible for someone to just not like this.

There is always a few who don't like the really well liked stuff for whatever reason. And likewise there are always those that really like the stuff that everyone else thinks should "die in a fire".
 
I'm pretty sure 2K3 Shredder was meant to be an utrom from the beginning, there were plenty of hints for it. Most of his schemes in season one revolved around hunting down the utroms. And there's this model sheet of Saki in sparring gear...



Note the strategically bandaged abdomen.
 
The mutant fly at the beginning was a reference to '87 Baxter Stockman. Okay, no, it probably wasn't, but that would be cool.

I can explain why there was no Krang in the '03 universe. Utrom Krang must have died off-screen at some point between that episode and this movie.

It didn't take much to mutate something in the old series, did it? Nice reference to that.

'03 Shredder combining the best technology from both universes was very interesting. It just goes to show that neither universe had a monopoly on useful tech, they just specialized in different fields.

I laughed at Rocksteady and Bebop's human forms walking around the '87 universe. It truly is the land of animation mistakes. I'm surprised the turtles headbands didn't start randomly changing colors.
 
Marking an event that was 25 years in the making, I really hoped that Turtles Forever would be able to aquedately honor the silver aniversary of TMNT. But man, they just went way above "adequate," and my already high expectations were just blown away.

I think easily the best part of this movie is that, even with all the craziness of three different TMNT incarnations clashing and teaming up to fight the Utrom Shreder, this movie still feels like it could fit perfectly with the established 2K3 universe, and perhaps the other two universes as well. Knowing that this special would be all about nostalga for many viewers, the writers could have just skimped on the plot and focused totally on making fun of the various Ninja Turtles incarnations. Instead, we got all of that and a suprisingly coherent and well-executed plot that manages to both be entertaining and in line with the 2K3 canon. Shredder's motivation makes sense even without the cut line Greg X quoted, and even with the ridiculous premise, the characters don't deviate much from their established personalities, if at all.

This is helped along by how well the artists replicated the 80's toon style and the black and while Mirage style so well - the latter in particular looks exactly like the original comics animated, and the smoother, lighter style of the first cartoon is also represented nicely. Both the old and new designs look fantastic, the animation is as smooth as can be, and there's tons of explosions and more characters and objects on screen that ever before. The moment where the Technodrome blazed its way through 2K3 New York and decimated an entire army of tanks and fighter planes was particularly impressive, as was the fight agains the 80's Foot and the trashing of the 2K3 turtles' lair.

Of course, the prime reason for this special was to showcase the inevitable humor that would result from three versions of Ninja Turtles and villians working together and fighting, and the movie doesn't let down. From the opening moments to the final confrontation, viewers are assualted by a constant flow of jokes, ranging from 80's Raph's fourth wall breaking to Ralph and Mikey's disaproval of the Party Wagon and Turtle Blimp. 80's Shredder and Krang steal the show whenever they appear, and the remarks about their universe's nonsensical tech are great as well. However, although the humor definitely has an 80's toon focus, the 2K3 turtles also get poked fun at, primarily through the relentlessly dark Mirage Turtles - who even the second toon's Turtles can't beat when it comes to sheer coolness.

Really, there's so many awesome moments in this movie that it truly feels more than worth the wait. Although I wish both versions of April and Casey had gotten more of a spotlight, I still was immensely satisfied in practically every way. Turtles Forever really is the ultimate finale to 25 great years of TMNT, and the makers pulled all the stops to making it immensely entertaining. Hopefully we'll be getting a DVD release within the next couple of years, as I can only imagine how much more fun it will be without commercials. :)

Finally, here's a few minor details that particularly caught my eye, including a couple of minor continuty errors:

- When the 80's turtles realize they are surrounded by the police, you can see officers Eastman and Laird in the background, who appeared in some of the earliest episodes of the show
- During the U.S. Army's attack on the Techndrome, you can briefley hear and see what appears to be the general that lead a similar attack on the Utrom's T.C.R.I headquarters in season two.
- In one of the early scenes, 80's Shredder mentions that there are no results for "Krang" in the 2K3 universe. However, in the season Two episode "Secret Origins: Part 3," one of the Utrom's boarding the teleportal complains about walking on his tentacles and is subsequently refered to as "Krang" by another Utrom. Since this shout-out was a rather minor detail in the grand scope of the 2K3 series, it's understandable that the producers probably didn't remember it, but it's still worth noting.
- Finally, it was rather strange to hear 2K3 Shredder's voice coming out of Chr'ell's mouth, as it was established in season Two that his normal voice is far different from his Shredder voice. A minor quibble, but again, still worth a mention.

BTW, my signature has been totally blank up to this point, and what better way to fill it up then by adding my absolute favorite quote from Turtles Forever? ;)
 
I never really got into the 2K3 Turtles much, but my fondness for the franchise, let alone the concept of multiverse hopping compelled to watch this.

I liked it. I liked it a lot. There were some nice jabs at the previous installment of the franchise, the chemistry worked between them most of the time, and for the majority part it provided an epic conclusion to this era of TMNT. Loved also the small appearance of the anime hero style Turtles during the Multiverse reveal.

Only real issue that lingered for me is... Karai's intro. I didn't really follow the TV show much, but does she have like a sixth sense or something whenever her father is back in her world, let alone any equipment to track him? Then she follows her father willingly destroying 2K3 NYC willingly but when the space-time continuum is in jeopardy that's when she thinks "Oh wait, I probably shouldn't have joined up with my rather megalomaniacal father." But I guess if I had an understanding a bit more of her struggle toward loyalty to her father, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

Also for some reason I kinda found the creators voiceovers during the live action epilogue... rather fake. Doesn't seem to sound right for some reason. But then again that's a minor quibble.

Highly enjoyable from beginning to end.
 
If you look closely at the Sword of Tengu (link), you can see an Utrom in the hilt.

Speaking of the first Movie-Shredder, Ch'rell's design is partially inspired by him in some ways... namely, the use of wrist-blades on only the left hand.
 
Your belief is wrong. Laird said they planned for him to be an Utrom from the get go.

If Shredder was a human, they would never have been able to get that decapitation on television.
 
I highly doubt Mirage would hire writers who didn't watch the 87 cartoon. Mirage did most of the work you know. They wouldn't really try to disrespect their own material.
 
I was waiting for one of the '80s Turtles to tell the 2003 Casey that their version of Casey Jones is a raving maniac who never takes his hockey mask off.
 
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