Pokemon 5th Generation: What do you hope for next?

Ash was such an awful beginner he needed two mentors to even survive his first journey. You didn't honestly think Misty and Brock were letting him headbutt everything in his path right?



So a trainer that was raised by a master coordinator and had her eyes set on becoming one is less qualified to win a championship than a trainer who was using her journey as an excuse to travel the world and had no clue what attacks existed?

K then.
 
I thought that it was fairly obvious that Pokemon isn't the kind of show that's going for closure. If you're wanting and waiting for closure, I think it would be better to watch shorter anime series. With Pokemon, one of the reasons its still going on is because the games sell so well. Since it does a good job with promoting the games, there isn't much of a reason to end it.



The main cast may seem stale to you, but the writers aren't trying to appeal to a group of people in their 20's. As long as it appeals to Japanese kiRAB in their target audience, then there isn't a reason to change the whole cast. KiRAB obviously are interested in the series still. Also, I don't really see how Team Rocket lost personality in DP. They felt like they had some more personality, at least Jessie, or stayed about the same to me.



Like I said earlier, this rut may not appeal to you or other people, but kiRAB in Japan are obviously interested, if the use of Dawn and Piplup, despite how annoying it is to me, in DP, is any indication.



While I understand where you're coming from, the series hasn't been one to give closure. Since the series has been so successful with only a few changes to the cast, there really isn't much of an incentive to use a whole new cast to advertise the games, especially when those characters would be doing the same exact thing Ash and his frienRAB do.

Plus, the writers aren't focused on the people who watched the series from the start. I'm sure that there are quiet a few people out there, like us, who have watched from the beginning, but we most likely make up a small percentage of Pokemon viewers. They're focused on the kiRAB of today, not the kiRAB of the 90s. That's probably one reason why Ash restarts his team now since AG so that it would be easier for new kiRAB to get into the series. I think that it's also important to keep in mind that Pokemon is generally seen as a series that a lot of kiRAB tend to "grow out" of.

If it really bothers you with how long the series goes on, I really don't understand why you're still watching it. If you're not enjoying it, then I think there isn't a point in watching the series.

I still don't mind the idea of being 40+ and watching Ash's journey. If the franchise is still profitable, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is, then the series would continue. I never thought I would be watching new episodes as a twenty-one year old college student, so being in my 40's doesn't sound that weird to me either. Plus, by that point, I'll have a lot more on my plate to worry about than if Ash is still on his journey.



That's true. Ash has seemed more focused on the traveling than just reaching the end goal of being a master. Plus, I don't think that they've given a clear definition of what is a Pokemon Master in the series. There is a stronger emphasis on the journey and being a compassionate trainer to one's Pokemon.



I agree that May seemed to show more growth. By the time she got her four ribbons, she was a different and much stronger character than she was in her first appearance. Torchic's whole evolution did present her growth as a trainer too. With Dawn, I don't really feel like she's that much different from her first appearance. Piplup or one of her Pokemon evolving wouldn't even have to show her growth. Even something like a better use of her team or teaching them more attacks would have worked for me.
 
I believe the new games are coming out at the end of Septeraber, the Sinnoh league eps don't start till July, so they won't have any time for anything in between.
 
I think it was at one point in "Tears for Fears", after a battle Ash approached Chimchar and it seemed to be scared and bracing itself for something, which kinda implies the usual treatment it got from Paul.



Believe me, I have. I've even seen people who think just like Paul does and agree that if a pokemon is worthless in corabat, it deserves to be released or recieve really tough training.



At this point I'm still unsure if they have any time for anything period. Yeah, some part of me is holding on to hope that they'll end the anime with the Sinnoh League and try giving a whole new series a shot for the new games.
 
See I don't want Ash replaced.
I'd rather see Ash go on his journey than some kid replace him and go through the same thing. It'd be like how they keep replacing the girls every generation, its getting really annoying seeing them go through contests each generation.
 
One of the things that really bothered me about Advance Generation was how May was supposed to be treated like the second main character, but her spotlight was often shafted or cut short for one reason or another. I mean, during contests you would see Ash OUTSIDE the arena training his Pokemon. What kind of message did that send to the viewers at home? Also, I think Team Rocket often interfered in these contests and in the end, nothing major changed because of their disruption so it made the entire event worthless.

They did it better with Dawn this time around and will hopefully do better next region as well. Oh and as for her not teaching moves to her Pokemon, if it means we don't go through 10 episodes seeing something like Pikachu learning Iron Tail or Gliscor failing to accomplish anything, then I'm content.
 
And they couldn't make the same money with a reboot? This logic that Ash is always there doesn't make sense. Younger kiRAB obviously wouldn't have an attachment to Ash, and if they're so worried about Pikachu not being there they could give the girl character her own female pikachu. Its ridiculous. Surely the anime writers have thought about this?



Because then I feel like I never got to see the ending. The most important thing about any show is the closure/ending to make it feel like it was all worth it. If Pokemon doesn't get that, what in the world is the point of watching?
 
From their point of view they have a good thing going, why change? Why take the risk of backlash when everyone is happy?



There is no closure. Satoshi will travel the world until he dies. Might Rocket eventually be dismantled and Sakaki defeated? Quite possibly. Will that ever be animated? Who knows. Turn away from the seires for a while and come back in a few years if you still care, maybe something will have changed. Until you win the lottery and can commision an ending you're better off bidding your time for luck.
 
I said something similar to this on Bulbagarden a few days ago in a thread about Will Ash leave the anime.

I'm still a believer that Ash is iconic to the anime in the same way that Optimus Prime is iconic to Transformers, Son Goku is to Dragon Ball, Gan Takada to Yatterman, Bart Simpsons to The Simpsons, Ryu to Street Fighters, etc, and that whomever replaces Ash would just be an Expy to him. Meaning that he'll have the same personality traits like wanting to be the best that ever was, go after the gym badges, catch new Pokemon, etc, to the point that people will question why he was replaced if the character in question is just going to be a carbon copy of him.
 
Don't forget that during her Grand Festival's, Ash had a subplot. In the Hoenn GF, Snorunt evolved into Glalie, and in the Kanto GF Ash captures Aipom. So during both of her tournaments they still focused on Ash a bit.

There was some obvious trial-and-error done with May's story since it was the first time the writers were trying to do a co-starring character, but she still got plenty of decent screentime. I still believe May's been in more contests overall than Dawn has, and of course got two Grand Festival's while Dawn is apparently only getting one.



Not really, only in some of the early ones. Jessie was a regular competitor in most of them and just borabed out, they didn't try to sabotage every contest.
 
That's a shame, I'd love a quick 10 or so episode arc where Ash takes on the new Frontier Brains. I especially want to see Thorton and Dahlia in the anime. Maybe they'll have a few cameos like Palmer did instead?
 
I wasn't bothered too much by Ash training his Pokemon during some of May's Contests. He usually didn't take up that much time from the Contests, May still got really nice development and the writers obviously didn't want him to just be sitting on the sidelines all the time. I think that they did a better job with Ash just waiting May's Contests once they got to Kanto.



It actually took Pikachu only about three episodes to learn Iron Tail and I don't think that the actual training took up a large chuck of time in those episodes. I loved how May taught her Pokemon some kind of attack since it showed how she was becoming a better Coordinator and developing new moves to use for appeals and battles. Plus, it gave each of her Pokemon a chance to shine, even for a little bit.

While Dawn does try to use her Pokemon's moves in different ways, such as Mamoswine swallowing Ice Shard, I think that she would be better if she actually trained more of her Pokemon to learn new moves. It would give her more variety in what she could do in appeals and battles. It wouldn't even have to take as much screentime as say May's attempts to teach Beautifly Silver Wind. Even something as quick and sudden as her Eevee's Shadow Ball, although that still looks weird to me, would work for me since it would show that she spent off-screen time teaching her Pokemon some kind of attack. Besides that, I just find it pathetic that Buneary still has the same moveset from its first appearance and that it took Pachirisu so long to learn a fourth move.
 
To be fair she mostly practices using contest moves instead of teaching completely new attacks like Ash. Even though Ash perfected it she came up with Ice Aqua Jet and the spinning dodge which Piplup and Buneary used, Piplup’s stored energy Peck, Mamoswines Ice Armor, and some new corabinations in future DP episodes that have yet to be shown in the U.S. We also see her training her Pokemon (mostly Piplup) a couple times for appeal rounRAB.



Why isn’t it official? Because Orange IslanRAB isn’t in the games? Whether you like it or not the games and anime have separate continuity so the Orange League is just as official and important as the other Leagues.



DP was king when it came to this. One of the main reasons I loved DP so much was because it had so much continuity and multi part episodes.

Continuity: Characters like Hunter J, Team Galactic, Looker, Reggie, Wallace, Professor Rowan, Johanna, Cynthia, and all the rivals appeared in multiple episodes and mentioned previous events, we even had additional episodes and cameos for some of the minor characters like Nolan, Forsythia, the noodle guy, Solana, Magikarp Salesman, and Angie. Cameos by Harley, Drew, and Soledad watching the Wallace cup, Morty, Marina, Whitney, Clair, Professor Nanba, and Max. Dawns Poketch and Brocks Pokegear actually being used instead of being accessories. All the Sinnoh Elite Four appearing and then Lucas and Aaron battling Cynthia. Flasrabroadacks to Ash’s release of Buteerfree, Pikachu saving Ash from the flock of Spearow, Pikachu refusing to use an Thunderstone and facing Surge, Piplup protecting Dawn from Ariados, Jame’s Victreebell and Chimeco. Team Rocket using their season one motto for one episode and a flasrabroadack to their bot camp training. Aura guardians and Ash being able to sense Aura. Ash and May showing Dawn the Ribbon they won back at the end of AG. Ash, Dawn and Brock seeing the legendary lake trio. Aipom loving contests more than gym battles and being traded to Dawn, Cacnea trying to learn Drain Punch and then perfecting it and as seen in his battle vs Barry at the Eterna gym. Dawn’s lunar wing from the 11th movie. The return of Gary, May, Brandon, Jessiebelle, Butch and Cassidy. Mamoswine’s anger problem, Gliscor having trouble flying. Croagunks rivalry with Toxicroak. Chimchar trauma with my Paul and learning to unleash blaze, Grotles loss of speed after evolution was mentioned a couple times too. Jessie dedicating her next ribbon to her released Dustox, James mourning Cacnea the episode after he gave it away and Meowth and Jessie trying to cheer him up.

Mini Arcs/two parters: Tag Battle Tournament, the Twinleaf Festival, Wallace Cup, Pokemon Summer Academy, Galactic finale, Lyra and Khoury Johto arc, Kidnapped Riolu special, Enchanted Honey Hunt, Adamant and Lustous Orb Heist, and the Search for Spear Pillar/Iron Island episodes. I guess you can also count the first three episodes of DP seeing as how the events take place in the same day. All the Gym Leaders appeared in 2-6 episodes each. Several of the contests were two parters and the coming Sinnoh League and Grand Festival are going to have a ton of episodes.

Not to mention all the captures, training, evolutions, and releases. Only about 40% of DP was actually filler which is pretty impressive for a long running show not based off a manga.


What I want to see:

More screen time for the main characters Pokemon. It was nice that DP had the all the characters Pokemon being out all at once several times for training, eating, and spectating but I still want to see them give each monster a roughly equal amount of battle time and focus episodes. With the exception of Gliscor, Sudowoodo, Happiny, all of Dawn’s Pokemon barring Piplup Aipom/Arabipom, and Starly’s evolution line to a lesser extent I think the groups Pokemon got a decent amount of screen time each.

Ash evolving all his new pokemon completely. They came pretty close in DP with Starly, Chimchar, Turtwig, and Gligar so I don’t see why we cant have five Pokemon be fully evolved.

A Pokemon ranger regular and a rogue Pokemon ranger. In stead of a bounty hunter like J have a rogue Pokemon ranger who assists the main evil organization and has a rivalry with the good guy/gal Pokemon ranger.

Five man band. Along, with Ash, Brock, and the new girl, their should be a Pokemon ranger, and Pokemon researcher.

More villains. We saw more criminals in Sinnoh than any other region. J, Team Galactic, common burglars (DP 115), Poacher with the Glalie, shade wearing clients and evil scientist organization with the Drowzee from the Riolu episodes, Azure, Crimson, Butch, Cassidy and Team Rocket to a lesser extent.

Gible and Happiny coming along.

More legendary Pokemon appearances. DP was pretty good with this seeing as how over 15 showed up.

No more using the same Pokemon in multiple episodes. There’s tons of Pokemon that baring a couple second long cameos we rarely get to see battle and only had one or two focus epiodes in the entire series. This show neeRAB less Gyrados, Scizor, Steelix, Elekid and its evolutions, etc.

More back story for the rivals and villains.

Better usage of the rivals. Paul and Barry were handled well but the others not so much. Ursula and Conway weren’t bad they just needed a couple more episodes. I actually liked Zoey, Kenny, and Nando and they had some interesting concepts; Zoey not liking people who pursue gyms and contests, Kenny being a childhood friend who teases Dawn but also kind of likes her romantically, and Nando being both a coordinator and gym battler but they were all missing something. They needed personality quirks, better Pokemon, and more of a heated rivalry with the main characters. The next generation rivals should appear in a ton of episodes, have cool Pokemon, and be quirky.

More non game moves. The addition of stuff like the Counter Shield, Pokemon eating attacks, and spinning dodges spiced things up a bit so I want to see more of this stuff.

Also, ditto on a female rival for Ash and Brock having a recurring competition and rival of his own.

Honestly I don’t think the next season should be that different DP. DP had some room for improvement but for the most part I think it set the bar for what future seasons should be like.
 
Where are these "so many people" you're referring to?



Okay I gotta disagree somewhat with the claims of Paul being one-dimensional. If he were one-dimensional he'd be cruel to everyone one all the time, and wouldn't be portrayed as smart. We've seen instances of where he is shown to respect his elders like with Nurse Joy, Professor Rowan, Cynthia, and many others.

I think some people get the idea that he's one dimensional just because he's shown to be arrogant, condescending, and uncaring alot of the time he is on screen.

Personally I think most of that stuff is done to push the envelope to show how much different he is to Ash.

I think Stu put it best in his Garabit retrospective that sums up on how I feel about how Paul has been used in the show. To paraphrase him:
That's how I view Paul on the show.

I don't think the intention is to have viewers like Paul or his actions, I think its simply to merely understand his actions.
 
All over the Pokemon fandom, of course.

And yeah, I guess Paul's more "two dimensional" than "one dimensional" Usually "one note" would be a more accurate description.
 
It would be cool to see an equal balance of boys and girls in the main team. It would be refreshing.



That is an interesting concept about the third goal not needing to have tokens to participate in a big tournament and not necessarily be based off from the games. It could be pretty creative. However, I'm not really sure if they would put that time for a goal/character development if it wasn't promoting the games. If it was an interesting goal and the character striving for that goal was interesting too, I'd be up for it though.



I don't think it is surprising. The games are still selling like hotcakes, the series is doing well and the firs three DP movies did well in theaters, if I remeraber correctly. There's really no intensive for them to end the series or drastically change the anime at this point. I could see them shaking things up a bit in the new series, just like they did with AG and DP, but it most likely will still follow the basic kind of formula that has worked well for all of the series.



I think that this series bothers you much more than it probably should. If you really hate the series now, there's nothing forcing you to watch it.



Well, I didn't think that the Team Magma/Aqua climax was that bad. It might have worked out better as a three-parter instead since it could have been a bit closer to how the weather affect the whole region. As for the Frontier Brains, a couple of them were interesting, but I agree that they were basically Gym leaders. If the Battle Frontier wasn't so short, then they might have been more interesting/unique.



I disagree. I understand that you love those sagas the most and I respect that. But I don't that they're the only ones worth watching from start to finish. That really depenRAB on personal taste. I still enjoy watching the few episodes of Johto I have on single discs, the Master Quest box sets and my Advance sets. I usually watch one episode every weekday afternoon or two if I'm too busy with homework to watch my DVD's. While Kanto and the Orange IslanRAB were enjoyable and still are to me, I don't really think that they're the best ones to come out of the series. To me, even Johto had better Gym battles than both sagas.



In the Johto episodes I've rewatched, I've noticed Misty. She really isn't that hard to miss. I do forget that she's holding Togepi a few times though and I remeraber forgetting it during the Orange IslanRAB, so it didn't just start during Johto. Misty was an okay character, before and during Johto, but I wasn't that impressed with either.



I think by the time you're fifty, you'll have a lot more important things to think and worry about than whether or not Ash is still the main character in Pokemon.



I'm not really sure if having a better start to her journey than May is the only reason for Dawn's impressive, and to me shocking, placement in her first Grand Festival. It certainly helps, but I think there would be more besides that. Plus, while May did use her journey initially to travel and couldn't remeraber any kind of attacks, she did become a much better battler as time went on. I still also think that she has better, or at least deeper, development than Dawn, at least based on what I've seen in the dub.



As Jacob said, the writers don't want to mess with their formula that has worked so well. Starting over with a new main character, and most likely new cast considering Team Rocket wouldn't be chasing after this new character, could work well or it could blow up in their face. Even if they did replace Ash, they wouldn't give a Pikachu to a female trainer since Pokemon mainly targets young boys.



I'm not really sure that a show neeRAB closure to make it feel like it was worth watching. It can be nice and all, but I always thought that the enjoyment while watching a show counts as a pretty big reason to watch it. I don't think that Pokemon is one of those shows though that gets the kind of closure you want though.



That is good quote to bring up and I think I understand why I haven't been burnt out from watching the series too. I love Pokemon, the series, the video games, the manga, etc, but there are other more important things in my life. I do enjoy discussing various aspects and events of the series here and in a few other forums, but it's mainly for fun and I don't get so engulfed into those discussions that I can't focus on my schoolwork. It probably also helps that I'm into other series and video games, so it isn't like Pokemon is the only animated series that I watch.

Believe it or not, the question of why I'm still watching the series has popped into my mind a couple of times throughout the years. To be perfectly honest, I haven't found a reason to stop watching it. I still love the franchise and enjoy the new episodes. Sure, it would be cool if they did something more along the lines of Adventure for the storylines and character development, but I'm not disappointed that it doesn't happen like that. I accept the show for what it is. I guess that's why seeing the show going on an endless loop doesn't really bother me.
 
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