Pokemon 5th Generation: What do you hope for next?

That's pretty much what Yu-Gi-Oh does. Yugi wasn't the star of GX or 5D's, but he (and other past characters) made cameos and were referenced. Though I think since Pokemon is much bigger it's more marketing focused so they don't want to ditch Ash and Pikachu as the poster children. Shame, it could have been really interesting doing it that way. I mean, my favorite characters in DP are Dawn, Barry, Paul, Zoey, and J, so they'd probably be the same as they are now.
 
Oh come on now. Not liking Kenny is understandable, not liking Paul is starting to pick up steam, but not liking Barry? Either your sense of humor is broken or missing because Barry is the master of humor.

He also has like half my team so he gets cool points for that.
 
Awe man would I love for Paul to return.
They could have him turn into the Saskue of the series.
Have him question Ash and thinking he had to had cheated when beating him. OR that he has to get stronger than Ash now. I think they do better with this than Gary too. They brought Gary back, why not Paul? They just need to being him back a little better than what they did with Gary.
 
Lord, an animated Pokemon Special would be a dream come true, but I'm not getting my hopes up, especially since it wouldn't be profitable to start an anime starting with Generation 1; the anime is only around to advertise the current generation.



Er, this suggestion started out pretty good but you kinda lost me at Ash being a mentor. I'm sick of him mentoring the newbie females; it's pretty sexist IMO (Ash never had anyone to mentor him when he was a newbie after all, why do the girls need one? Why can't they learn the ropes by themselves like most trainers?)



Again, EXACTLY. This is what I do and what I'll most likely continue to do in the future. If an episode is apparently unusually well-done, in spite of the terrible Ash, Brock, and Team Rocket, I'll watch it. For example, I have hopes for the Grand Festival episodes coming up (though apparently the finals has Dawn against Zoey. Zoey had better win, since it would make no sense whatsoever if Dawn wins. May, a much better coordinator, never won a Grand Festival, yet Dawn does? )



I have to agree. Don't get me wrong, CyberCubed, I feel your pain. But during Johto (even before Ash lost the league tournament), I realized that the show and characters were headed for a formulamatic fate. Even the movies, despite still great animation, became more lackluster after the third (the danger level was all over the place in the first three movies, but in the rest it's limited to the climax, making the overall films less interesting as a result.) I accepted the anime's fate a long time ago and, although I hate it, I still enjoy talking about it; it doesn't pain me that much.



I can sort of see where you're coming from here. May and Max were cool characters to follow, and the Contests progressively got better and better (I didn't really care that much for them at first, especially when green-haired Gary-clone Drew was around, but after the brilliance of Harley was introduced, the Contests became more interesting. Practically the only episodes I bothered watching in the Battle Frontier arc were the Contest episodes.)

However, AG still wasn't all that much of an improvement over Johto. It WAS better than Johto (and Sinnoh for that matter), but still weighed down by formulamatic filler episodes. New clothes or Pokemon aside, Ash was now officially boring, with the writers' idea of "maturity" being a character defined solely by his nicey-nice love for Pokemon and his passionate love for battles. Brock also became completely pointless, and Team Rocket were only occasionally entertaining.

And don't get me started on how Team Aqua/Team Magma and the Frontier Brains were handled. Team Aqua/Team Magma barely showed up and were resolved in a two-parter that both fans and non-fans of the anime alike agree was horrible. And the Frontier Brains, who were supposed to be some of the most amazingly powerful trainers in the world, were made into basically Gym Leaders who usually just lasted an episode or two with the exception of Brandon (who was NOT supposed to be the leader; Anabel was, but here she was just a twit who was also yet ANOTHER character with pointless, unrequited "feelings" for Ash.)



He's the resident obsessive Pokemon otaku; it's his job. (And I mean that in a respectful way, Dogasu, I really do! )
 
You forgot to mention that Team Rocket and Giovanni would get resolution, as would the GS BALL.



I've pictured something like this myself. In my vision though, May and Max are Birch's children rather than Norman's while Brendan is Norman's son, Drew would not come across as a Gary knock-off in his earliest appearances, and Brendan would sometimes do contests and compete against May for some reason or other. Oh, and Team Aqua and Magma would be major villains whose finale would last for about 5 episodes rather than two and would actually be GOOD as opposed to the drivel we got in the show.



I'd say Dawn should be THE main character, Lucas and Barry be side-character frienRAB/rivals, and I'm not sure about what Paul's place in it would be since his entire schtick seems to be "Ash's opposite". And again, Team Galactic would appear more and their resolution would be even better than what we got (which was already pretty awesome itself.)



I feel the same, buddy. I feel the same.



I said EVEN Barry for a reason. I really do like his character from the games and even in the anime he's amusing and in-character. But I just don't like the way he's been handled in the show. Something just seems...off about him. Perhaps it's cause it seems the writers have made him into more of a loser in favor of Ash and Paul. Despite the fact that he's the actual D/P rival from the source material, which is why I think he should be used with more respect and not made out to be just some annoying Paul fanboy.

And why do you say not liking Kenny is understandable but not not liking Paul? I got the impression that Paul was meant to be disliked.
 
The thing about Barry is that he is a loser, even in the games. He's your rival that's as annoying and persistent as Gary, but not nearly as powerful or skilled. it's even made blatant in Platinum where he's the strongest trainer in-game but is still not allowed to enter the Battleground. Him idolizing Paul and being a complete goof make perfect sense.

As for Paul, I just personally find him to be refreshing. I don't think he's meant to be disliked as much as he is meant to be a stark contrast to the typical trainers you see on the show. His cruelty seems to be highly exaggerated among the fanbase.
 
I really, really want someone to have a Vulpix on the show, and have it appear for more than just a five second cameo every 90 or so episodes. When Brock's left, I honestly didn't feel much of a need to watch the show anymore.
 
I agree that overall, the original freshness of the show ended after Orange IslanRAB. Kanto and Orange are the only sagas where you can watch every single episode, even the bad ones, and still get some type of enjoyment out of it. They're the only two sagas worth watching from start to finish.

I guess the problem is now, its really only worth it to watch the most important or best eps of every saga, and skip the rest. And that bugs me because I shouldn't have to do that.
 
Because you get the nagging feeling that the show is never going to get closure. All the other shows I've watched from the 90's have ended at this point. Almost all the shows from the 2000's even that I watched have ended at this point.

Simpsons and Pokemon are the only two that are still going that I watched when I was a little kid. The problem with both is the main cast has decayed, (Ash, Brock and TR all lose a little personality with each passing generation), and just adding one new female character does little to pump the interest up anymore.

I originally liked the fresh start, if only because it separated the show from the repetitive Johto seasons, but now the show is falling into a different rut, having a new main girl every 4 years and having Brock be useless, and Ash practically has no personality anymore.

I don't need to see the show last forever. It would be great to have closure and they can advertise the games with a whole new cast. Instead of us all being 40+ years old and Ash's story still going.
 
You're not a Detective Conan fan are you?

Think about how I feel. He's only gotten a little bit closer to the Black Organization in over 10 years.
 
Yeah. Some say "only season 1" is good/the best/freshest, but I'd say it, Orange IslanRAB, and even some of Johto up to Azalea Town were all equally interesting. Really, the point when the show was doomed is obvious to me. It's when the GS Ball plot that was building up through the entire Orange IslanRAB and start of Johto just...fizzled out. All for the sake of a mediocre movie. After that, no big, continous plotlines were really done for the show. Just random connected episodes here and there (like Contest episodes, Team Aqua/Magma or Team Galactic, that one weird summer school storyline from mid-Sinnoh, etc) and none of those were enough to really hold one's interest for an entire series. While I still wouldn't like the show going on this long, I wonder if it somehow would have remained more engaging if the GS Ball plotline got to evolve, and more lengthy, deeper plotlines were allowed to exist......
 
Being a complete goof makes total sense for him. Idolizing Paul...never did. It just seemed like a way for the writers to show what a superior rival Paul is to Barry, again despite the fact that Barry is the main rival from the D/P games. If they already gave Ash a stock rival for the D/P series, why bother bringing in Barry at all?



Sure, that's what they aaaalll say. That he's refreshing because he's a stark contrast to the typical nice guys on the show. Only...he's just as boring. Yes, contrary to popular belief, it takes more than just being a smug jerkass to be an interesting character. But he acts like a cold-hearted jerk, mistreats and abuses his pokemon, and opposes Ash's kindhearted views. So yes, I'm sure he was intended to be disliked. That intention obviously and utterly failed with so many people, but hey, that's Draco In Leather Pants for ya.

And his cruelty isn't exaggerated in the fanbase, it's been right there on screen, especially when Chimchar was concerned. There was a none too subtle indication that Paul occasionally hit Chimchar with his bare hanRAB! If anything, his cruelty is downplayed in the fanbase because they seem to agree with his methoRAB and think he's cool. Ugh.
 
My guess is that they wanted to use another in-game character to promote D/P/Pl. I think that they could have introduced Barry a bit earlier than they did, which might have made him a better rival, but other than that, I didn't think that they did a bad job with his character. As for the idolizing Paul bit, yeah, that was kind of weird. That's why I was annoyed with him at first since he worshiped Paul so much, but I guess they wanted some more conflict between Ash and Barry in order to give them further encouragement to become rivals.



I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if I would label Paul boring. He's definitely a static, one-dimensional character, but he still comes off as an interesting character to me. It's probably because we haven't seen a trainer like him before that made him seem really interesting. In all honesty, despite being a cruel, pretty heartless guy, he's my favorite rival in the series. He does provide some interesting conflict with Ash and he is a big part in Monferno's story, which I think is one of the best parts of the DP saga. It's also interesting that he doesn't act friendly with his Pokemon, yet he can still be a powerful trainer.

From what I've read in other forums, which isn't the best source for understanding the fanbase, but I believe we're talking about the online fanbase, most people like Paul because they dislike him so much.



I don't recall an indication of Paul hitting Chimchar with his bare hanRAB. Even so, I thought that the emotional and psychological abuse were bad enough and clearly had a lasting effect on Chimchar. I also don't think that Paul's cruelty is downplayed like that. Whenever there have been discussions about Paul, many people acknowledge the fact that he is a cruel and/or heartless trainer who does not care about his Pokemon's health. They obviously couldn't argue that he does care based on the way he responRAB when his Pokemon lose. There also might be a mention of how he is still a strong trainer, in spite of his cruelty, but I actually haven't heard of a lot of people actually agreeing with his methoRAB.
 
I would love to see Ash, Misty, and Brock traveling together again. I never found Dawn to be an interesting character, so I definitely wouldn't mind seeing the show producers letting go of her for a while. As a kid, Gary Oak was one of my favorite characters in the series, so I wouldn't mind seeing more of him in a productive role, as well.
 
I guess it's a matter of viewing but even if Dawn's contest growth was done better, May seemed to show more growth in the end. I mean, her main pokemon actually evolving all the way is syrabolic proof of that. And hey, while I didn't care for Drew in the first two seasons he featured in (where he was essentially just the coordinator version of Gary), I liked him in the next two seasons. And again, I really intensely dislike the whole "Jessilina" concept.



That's what they do with alot of characters on the show. And with Nando, I found him to be getting really interesting in his second appearance where he also showed he knew alot about Sinnoh's history and mythology. But then that was dropped and we've not seen him again until the upcoming Grand Festival and Sinnoh League.



You, my friend, have a good way in handling things.



But what if he loses to Infenape? The very pokemon he could never make stronger through his abusive training but Ash did through his own methoRAB that Paul ridiculed. I really think that will send him over the edge. And it will be glorious to behold.



But...he's already the Sasuke of the series! (Which is why I don't like him )



I can understand how you feel, Cybercubed. I think the best solution would be, if by any chance Ash's story doesn't end with the Sinnoh league, to stop investing so much time in the show and move on. Only see what you think you want to see. For instance, I just watched the Team Galactic arc finale after not watching the show for heavens-knows-when. Now I'll probably go right back to not watching it, and just reading about it occasionally, only watching when something worthwhile comes up (like if Paul gets his butt handed to him by Infernape like I'm hoping for.)
 
I'd say right after the Goldenrod Gym is when Johto went downhill. The very beginning of Johto was actually fairly decent, but it went to hell after the initial 30 or so episodes.

To be honest I think it majorly has to do with Ash's Kanto starters splitting up. Charizard and Squirtle leave in early Johto, followed by the GS ball being abandoned, and that's around the time the tedious fillers started coming in full force.

Granted Ash's Kanto Pokemon leaving isn't a big deal anymore as we know they could come back, but seeing it happen for the first time was strange. Remeraber how people used to say, "Why did Ash get rid of his awesome Charizard?" and things along those lines? We originally thought it was another Pidgeot situation, thank god the writers weren't that stupid with Charizard/Squirtle.

And then there is Misty. Goodness, where to begin about Misty? She went from being one of the most entertaining characters in the show to the least entertaining. In most of those Johto eps you don't even notice that Misty's there at all. It's like the writers forgot she existed! People used to talk about how Togepi killed Misty's character or how Togepi, "drained away Misty's personality," and my god, they are right.

Granted the tail-end of Johto had some nice episodes, and I'd recommend a few of the better arcs at the tail-end.



The problem is the show still shouldn't be on this long even if it was consistently good. What show follows the same protagonist for 650+ episodes? Why is a show that started when we were KIRAB....still going on now that most of us are in our 20's?

We'll be like 50 years old someday and Ash will still be traveling in Generation 15 with girl #12. Its utterly ridiculous.

Pokemon should not become like Simpsons. Pokemon should not be following the same protagonist for 20 years!
 
When is this new series going to be ready? The game doesn't come out till this fall, and D/P is ending soon. What to do in between? It be great if they could bring back all the old characters for one filler season of fun.

Speaking of which, I had a strange thought, but watching an early episode of the original show, but Misty's sister were ahead of their time. They would be perfect for contest, they have no interest in battling and they are not any good at it to begin with, but putting on Pokemon show, that is what a coordinator does.
 
I do the exact same thing, although, I watch either episodes that spark my intrest or have a voice actor I like on it. (Although, I don't have cable. I would probably watch it more if I did.)

I think something else should be done with Brock and there are some good suggestions. He just doesn't seem very interesting anymore and I really saw that in AG.

Contests are okay with me, because I like the format, (Qualifying scores and then battles). I'm not sure if I want them or not.

Dawn should be replaced and I'm really curious, if she is, who voices her. I wouldn't think it'll be same as Dawn's.
 
We'll probably know when the series will come out after they announce the release date for Black and White. AG and DP started to air the same day or week as their respective generation games. Considering that they just started to air the Grand Festival and the games are going to come out this fall, I doubt that they'll have to a filler arc. I'd be surprised if there would be enough time to do much of anything after the Sinnoh League.



They never seemed interested in Pokemon in general, but were more focused as performing themselves. Maria from the Legend of Thunder special behaved more like a coordinator, which made her brief cameos in DP match her character.
 
Why should it not? I don't espicially care for the current animeverse, however it still makes money and has dedicated fans. Why is this bothering you when you can do what every other person, like myself, has done and just let go? Things have changed and the purpose of the animeverse has changed. The anime has always been a tool for pushing the games and the series you actually love from childhood ended. Pok
 
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