Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit.

[uzi]

And polluting them to death. They of course exploit the native workers and run the local governments so they can operate without rules. The oil belongs to the country where it is. Oil companies are not doing the country a favor. They actually prop up governments that will allow them to exploit the land while the leaders take enormous bribes. The politicians work for the oil companies. The people get suppression. They must deserve it.

I can't believe someone is this naive. Where do you think the local government is going to get the money to do its own drilling? The expertise?

Fuck you are stupid. Oil company = manufacturing company = service company. So, no one should invest in another country?

And the oil companies prop up the government like any other company does. They pay taxes and royalties. What the government does with that money is their business. Kind of like what your government does with its money gathered from taxes.

And if you think that it is the oil companies who control the government, you are about 180 degrees from the truth. Every time you want to hire someone, you have a list of candidates that the government gives you that must be considered. We spent much time and effort trying to ensure we got the best candidates in the country and not just the ones the government wanted us to hire.

We deliberately don't give bribes. It has cost us much money, time and production to ensure that bribes are not given. You do it for one person and soon everyone has a hand open. Our culture is not to give bribes. In theirs it is the norm. We aren't the ones who are corrupting them. We are the ones trying to stop the corruption!

 

[gonzomax]

I feel for the Afghanie people. They don't want the Taliban who rule with an iron fist and keep them under strong religious backwards rule. They don't want Al Qeada who promises nothing but war and confiscation of their wealth to wage it. Then behind door number 3 in Karzai ,an American drug puppet ,who has installed a drug corporate and corrupt rule. They must be feeling hopeless and powerless.
McChrystal said there were 100 or less Al Qeada in Afghanistan. The military changes the mission midstream and expect the American public to buy it.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/president-obamas-secret-100-al-qaeda-now-afghanistan/story?id=9227861 Is 200,000 troops and contractors enough ?

 

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

I feel for the Afghanie people. They don't want the Taliban who rule with an iron fist and keep them under strong religious backwards rule. They don't want Al Qeada who promises nothing but war and confiscation of their wealth to wage it. Then behind door number 3 in Karzai ,an American drug puppet ,who has installed a drug corporate and corrupt rule. They must be feeling hopeless and powerless.
McChrystal said there were 100 or less Al Qeada in Afghanistan. The military changes the mission midstream and expect the American public to buy it.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/president-obamas-secret-100-al-qaeda-now-afghanistan/story?id=9227861 Is 200,000 troops and contractors enough ?

Thanks for the cite, gonzo. And I do agree with you about the Afghani people.
I can't help but wonder if we are trying to hold the Afghani side of the border with Pakistan while the Pakistani military slowly tries to root them out from the other side so AQ has nowhere to flee to.

 

[Leaffan]

For 9 fucking years?

Fuck you, personally.

At the start of all this, I remember telling a friend that it would take a generation to change the way of life in Afghanistan. If you consider a generation to be typically 25 years, then we're not even half way there yet. But I still think it's worth it, and in a previous thread I linked to a survey that stated that the vast majority of Afghans think it is worth it too.

This is a just war.

 

[adhay]

I can't believe someone is this naive. ...

Fuck you are stupid. ... We are the ones trying to stop the corruption!

Notes to yourself? Ignorance is the first refuge of the blind. We've always supported corruption to make the world safe for the Corporate Kleptocracy. Check our foreign policy record from Hawaii to Afghanistan to Iraq, back to Afghanistan. Look out, Iran.

 

[uzi]

I don't think you even know what corruption is.
I remember a story from one of my Yemeni staff. He had his computer stolen from his home and went to the police to report it. The police told him if he would pay them a sum of money (about 1/3 the cost of the computer), they would find his computer for him.
Or, another employee wanting to open a small beach hotel for local families and the government employee saying that they before they granted him a license he had to agree that they would be an equal partner in the enterprise.
Oddly enough, not a western person, or company in sight.

 

[gonzomax]

There are about65 countries with dictatorships or rulers who we don't like. So much to do. so little time. Perhaps we should go alphabetically.

 

[adhay]

I don't think you even know what corruption is...

Try this. Corruption is thinking you have a right to an SUV and $3 gas while half the world starves. IMHO.

 

[gonzomax]

I can't believe someone is this naive. Where do you think the local government is going to get the money to do its own drilling? The expertise?

Fuck you are stupid. Oil company = manufacturing company = service company. So, no one should invest in another country?

And the oil companies prop up the government like any other company does. They pay taxes and royalties. What the government does with that money is their business. Kind of like what your government does with its money gathered from taxes.

And if you think that it is the oil companies who control the government, you are about 180 degrees from the truth. Every time you want to hire someone, you have a list of candidates that the government gives you that must be considered. We spent much time and effort trying to ensure we got the best candidates in the country and not just the ones the government wanted us to hire.

We deliberately don't give bribes. It has cost us much money, time and production to ensure that bribes are not given. You do it for one person and soon everyone has a hand open. Our culture is not to give bribes. In theirs it is the norm. We aren't the ones who are corrupting them. We are the ones trying to stop the corruption!

That response was not just stupid but gloriously naive.
We don't deliberately give bribes? Are you joking?

 

[adhay]

That response was not just stupid but gloriously naive.
We don't deliberately give bribes? Are you joking?

He is incapable of getting the joke or he is part of it, basically, an obfuscating asshole. You might as well try to teach a pig to dance.

I do not recommend it.

 

[gonzomax]

Thanks for the cite, gonzo. And I do agree with you about the Afghani people.
I can't help but wonder if we are trying to hold the Afghani side of the border with Pakistan while the Pakistani military slowly tries to root them out from the other side so AQ has nowhere to flee to.

They are based, supported and fed in Pakistan. Pakistan pretends to be helping us so we can drop tax payer money on them. They now have an Afghanie Al Qeada and a Paki Al Qeada. No end in sight. The longer we stay, the more thoroughly fucked the American taxpayer is.

 

[gonzomax]

http://www.fordham.edu/economics/vinod/nyt9.htm No we should not tolerate international bribery. It results in the poor people getting cheated. The leaders suck up the money while allowing the corporations to cheat the country out of their resources. The workers are exploited by us. We do it all the time.

 

[uzi]

We do not do it for the citizens of the land.

In case you haven't figured it out, but who do you think are accepting bribes?

It seems you accept the premise of 'white man's burden' to stop the 'brown' people from accepting bribes from us, or from each other. You also don't seem to understand that bribes tend to be asked for, or strongly suggested, or outright demanded, not freely given.

 

[PrettyVacant]

We do not do it for the citizens of the land.

In case you haven't figured it out, but who do you think are accepting bribes?

It seems you accept the premise of 'white man's burden' to stop the 'brown' people from accepting bribes from us, or from each other. You also don't seem to understand that bribes tend to be asked for, or strongly suggested, or outright demanded, not freely given.

Could just enforce your own laws against your own citizens.

 

[Gfactor]

Two notes in one:

1.

For 9 fucking years?

Fuck you, personally.

Sure there is.

I outlined it above.

Fuck you, personally.

[del]And fuck you, your wife and your children's children[/del].

Reminder:

The following expressions should not be directed at other posters.

* * * *
fuck you

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858

Please stop this. No warning issued.




2.

fuck you all.

Fuck you all, one more time.

Fuck you all.

Fuck you all .

Only half the fucking world which we've armed at taxpayer expense.

fya.

Expressions not referred to above but which are normally considered vulgar (e.g., asshole, dick, prick, bitch, kiss my ass) are subject to the following limitations:

- occasional use only
- no posts consisting solely or mainly of vulgarities.

Time for you to stop with the "fuck you all"s in this thread, too. No warning issued.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

 

[uzi]

Try this. Corruption is thinking you have a right to an SUV and $3 gas while half the world starves. IMHO.

That response was not just stupid but gloriously naive.
We don't deliberately give bribes? Are you joking?

Companies are run by people and people are good and bad. Kind of like countries. There are some people in any company who shouldn't be in that company and will do things they shouldn't do. I have seen people fired for not following company guidelines on taking gifts when they shouldn't be doing so. So, I am sure that in some companies there are people who are violating some law or policy. Kind of like everywhere else in the world. Some of these people could actually be running those companies. Kind of like the people who run countries. Get both types together and you'll end up with the sort of issues you're intimating.
I also know that in the company I was a part of it was a strict policy to not give bribes. In the history of the company was there ever a person who gave a bribe? Who the hell knows. I know we lost a lot of time and money by not giving bribes when they would have sorted out problems if we had.

Unbelievable. I still haven't heard how you intend to finance third world countries so they can develop their resources without using outside expertise and capabilities. Either of you idiots know how to accomplish this? Thought not. Either of you ever gotten on the plane to do a job for less than what you'd get at home? Yeah, thought not.

 

[gonzomax]

We do not do it for the citizens of the land.

In case you haven't figured it out, but who do you think are accepting bribes?

It seems you accept the premise of 'white man's burden' to stop the 'brown' people from accepting bribes from us, or from each other. You also don't seem to understand that bribes tend to be asked for, or strongly suggested, or outright demanded, not freely given.

You can not be that wrong without trying. The money goes into the pockets of the few at the top. It does not get to the people who just suffer more the top get ricer and more corrupt.
Karzai and his chosen few and building up bank accounts in Switzerland and when it gets too hot for them to stay, they will run off and live like kings on our tax money.
I never mentioned color, although we do exploit the weaker countries .They happen to be countries of color . They have bad governments with leaders who can easily be corrupted by a chance to get American money.
Read "Confessions of a Economic Hitman' and see how it works. We move in and offer a poor country a chance to become modernized through Bechtel or Haliburton, and then we own them. they can never pay us back. So we get rights to all their resources. Their government works for the corporations.

 

[Ludovic]

Try this. Corruption is thinking you have a right to an SUV and $3 gas while half the world starves. IMHO.

Like the perfect master says, that doesn't even make stupid sense.

 

[adhay]

...
Unbelievable. I still haven't heard how you intend to finance third world countries so they can develop their resources without using outside expertise and capabilities. Either of you idiots know how to accomplish this? Thought not. Either of you ever gotten on the plane to do a job for less than what you'd get at home? Yeah, thought not.

You represent our present solution. Hire a bunch of local gangsters, arm them and declare them a democracy.

Makes jobs like yours respectable.

 

[uzi]

I've had guys in customs ask if I'd bring in booze for them to 'facilitate' me getting through quicker. None of them looked like they were running the country.
The reason the corruption exists is because of the culture that allows it. If companies are bribing people it is because it is expected by the locals who run the countries. They allow it, and only they can stop it. But because it runs throughout the culture it is very difficult to curtail.