Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Little Nemo
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FoieGrasIsEvil said:
Yes, it actually is. They are doing what they were trained to do and are ordered to do. Please don't mention Nuremburg, as it isn't applicable. Obviously we are involved in wars these recent decades that are of questionable intent or value. But don't blame the soldier...blame your elected officials that control the soldier.
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The soldiers follow orders and mostly fight to keep themselves and other soldiers alive. The suicide rate for soldiers is at a all time high. It is easy to confuse soldiers who are just trying to help other soldiers who are also fighting in horrible conditions and assume they fight because they believe in the mission.
 
Lobohan said:
So we're gonna do drone flyovers of a hostile country? Where will they refuel from and be based from? Pakistan? I suppose they'd be happy if most of the drones were flying the other way. :D

In any case, I'm not an intelligence officer, but I'm pretty sure you need intel to focus your satellites, you can't just search the whole country.
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I'm sure we could bribe someone to let us base our drones for less than what the war costs us. When we pull out, let the Afghans know that we reserve the right to bomb terror camps.
 
The point is that Al Qeada does not need Afghanistan. They moved to northern Pakistan already. The Afghanis don't want them back. It is no fun getting attacked by America for something you don't believe in anyway. They have havens in Yemen and a few African countries. They have walked out of the line of fire. How big of a force does Al Qeada need to plan . Five or six?
They should be hunted down in covert police actions. A large scale war won't work. We can out gun them so they just back off until we get bored and leave.
 
gonzomax said:
I feel for the Afghanie people. They don't want the Taliban who rule with an iron fist and keep them under strong religious backwards rule. They don't want Al Qeada who promises nothing but war and confiscation of their wealth to wage it. Then behind door number 3 in Karzai ,an American drug puppet ,who has installed a drug corporate and corrupt rule. They must be feeling hopeless and powerless.
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And guess what would happen if any of these people you feel sorry for now were to gain power? They would be no different than Karzai and probably worse. The people in Afghanistan don't have the culture, will, and experience to run governments without corruption or democratically as people here seem to want them to.
In order to instill that culture it would take years of colonial rule where the children would require secular educations in a secure society where they could learn in peace.
But, no one has the balls to do what is necessary for this to happen.

And I'd still like to see where this pipeline is being built that supposedly was what this war was all about.
 
Uzi said:
And guess what would happen if any of these people you feel sorry for now were to gain power? They would be no different than Karzai and probably worse. The people in Afghanistan don't have the culture, will, and experience to run governments without corruption or democratically as people here seem to want them to.
In order to instill that culture it would take years of colonial rule where the children would require secular educations in a secure society where they could learn in peace.
But, no one has the balls to do what is necessary for this to happen.

And I'd still like to see where this pipeline is being built that supposedly was what this war was all about.
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The" worse that Karzai "is unsubstantiated claim based on your feeling. That is no argument . All the choices are bad for the people.
I hate our tax money going to thieves like the Karzai government. I feel if we give money, we have to administer it. Shipping it to warlords and state puppets is a waste.
 
FoieGrasIsEvil said:
It is what it is. You need the Marines, they are good killers.
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That reminded me of a relative that was training to become a Green Beret.

I asked him once if he ever considered becoming a Marine. He said "No way!"
"We call them bullet catchers"..
 
BobLibDem said:
Satellites, drone flyovers. I'm sure there will be ways to get in touch with informants.
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Reliable intelligence always has a human component to it. Infiltration. Its worth its weight in gold **IF** the informant is reliable.

Satellites and drones are nice for what they do but its not the same as having actionable intel on the ground.
 
gonzomax said:
The" worse that Karzai "is unsubstantiated claim based on your feeling.
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Okay, how about some examples of countries with a similar culture who don't have the same issues. I'm sure it won't be hard to find at least two for every one you state.
 
Uzi said:
And guess what would happen if any of these people you feel sorry for now were to gain power? They would be no different than Karzai and probably worse. The people in Afghanistan don't have the culture, will, and experience to run governments without corruption or democratically as people here seem to want them to.
In order to instill that culture it would take years of colonial rule where the children would require secular educations in a secure society where they could learn in peace.
But, no one has the balls to do what is necessary for this to happen.

And I'd still like to see where this pipeline is being built that supposedly was what this war was all about.
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http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html From Cheney's own food hole. You can not divorce the oil interests from our latest war making excursion. You can not pretend it is not about money.
If you really believe in the free market, you will buy everything in the marketplace.
 
Resolved: Meh.

If we can find someone willing to shoot at U.S. troops, then we should go there and shoot back.
 
Uzi said:
And guess what would happen if any of these people you feel sorry for now were to gain power? They would be no different than Karzai and probably worse. The people in Afghanistan don't have the culture, will, and experience to run governments without corruption or democratically as people here seem to want them to.
In order to instill that culture it would take years of colonial rule where the children would require secular educations in a secure society where they could learn in peace.
But, no one has the balls to do what is necessary for this to happen.
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All that would do is teach them how to build a society designed to be exploited. That's what colonial rule does; that's what it's for.
 
FoieGrasIsEvil said:
Reliable intelligence always has a human component to it. Infiltration. Its worth its weight in gold **IF** the informant is reliable.

Satellites and drones are nice for what they do but its not the same as having actionable intel on the ground.
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Israel?
 
Can't we just selectively nuke Afghanistan and be done with it? Nuclear weapons aren't nearly as bad as people make them out to be in the long-term. Hell, we have nuked our own soil and lots of other places as well. Nuking Japan was the best thing that ever happened to them. I don't see why we can't just nuke Afghanistan into the 1st world one bomb at a time. I know I try a lot harder when someone threatens to kill my whole extended family if I don't toe the line. Pull the U.S. troops back and start lobbing one a day until there is significant improvement in behavior. It is basic psychology and it will work. Flowers don't grow well in radioactive fertilizer either.
 
Uzi said:
Okay, how about some examples of countries with a similar culture who don't have the same issues. I'm sure it won't be hard to find at least two for every one you state.
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I am not sure what you refer to, but if you want places we interfered with that did not institute a better form of government that would help the people heres a small list
Haiti
Iraq
Afghanistan
Kuwait
Panama
Philippines
Libya
Nicaragua
Chili
Guatemala
Dominican Republic
Indonesia
Cuba
Vietnam
Puerto Rico
El Salvador
Honduras
 
adhay said:
Listen, asshole, I know pizza because I grew up 30 mi out of Grand Central, NYC, the home of pizza.

It was Carlo's, a mile and a half from my home. The only toppings offered were extra cheese and anchovies.

The first time I tried it, I ate the crust and loved it. But I noticed that my wealthier, pizza savvy friends left the rinds on the pan. I still do to this day.

Fuck you all.
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Christ this post is funny as hell. I was just re-reading this thread for some reason, and I guess I missed this one the first time.
 
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