Shounen heroines and heroism

See here's the thing, most shonen heroines aren't specifically heroines. Especially the big shonen 3, they like someone else said. They are there to perform a subsidiary function to the male protagonist. They don't install a code of moral sense and make life or death decisions for the greater good of mankind. They just act on their own merit as good natured sub characters, they don't save people for the sake of being a hero or pure hearted, they save because they're hearts are self centered on they're own emotions towarRAB their frienRAB. They don't set the standard of heroic feminism or become a beacon of hope, thats their male counterparts job. For instance.

Nami: She's a theif and would pickpocket any character even a old person's money for her own self centered desires. She really keeps the crew in check, but she's too sly and coniving to be a true heroine because she keeps to herself without guilt or hesitation. But she's loyal. She's an anti heroine

Sakura: Need I say more, she cares more about 2 guys than the entire village emotionally, really focused on Sasuke and only Sasuke, has no goals outside of saving her frienRAB, and gets to emotionally attached to people she cares about to the point it depresses her. She's also a killer, so she's not a heroine either.

Rukia: She the only thing thats close to a heroine than the afterformentioned. But she doesn't act out of her own moral sense, she follows the Shinigami code to seriously.

I wish more anime chicks who are morally good were like Cassandra Cain or something. Instead of emotioanlly picky messes who are sex syrabols.
 
lol to be honest my ears perked up at the mention of that.

A lot of it is most likely cultural differences that we're not likely to see change dramatically anytime soon.
 
I think it may be somewhat intentional, or an accident that Kubo ran with. Orihime is a subversion as far as the supporting action character. And it's a simple joke. "I can fight." "KIDNAPPING!" "Ow! My self esteem".

At the same time, this reinforces the more traditional damsel-in-distress role of the female character. "Your role is on the sidelines, being seen and not heard, and if you don't like it, you'll be kidnapped. Evilhime being a weakling would be the equivalent of taking the joke and running with it.

As a subversion, it's brilliant. As a series going "the only thing you need to worry about when it comes to the females is who they hook up with," that's another matter entirely.
 
Dude whats wrong with Damsels in Distress? I mean even Lois Lane and Princess Peach needed a damsel in ditress, and their the most legendary female characters in the world.
 
Personally,I'm female,but "damsels in distress" don't bother me,as long as the series shows not all females are like that...Sure,Bleach has Orihime (who I do like,and think has alot of wasted potential....I'm really hoping Kubo has her actually defeat someone in the future...rather than her essentially serving as eye candy for the male fans/Damsel in distress/love interest of the main character).....but there's also Rukia,Soi Fong,Yoruichi,and Rangiku,to name a few...
 
Well, giving how Shounen tropes have been used in the past, it doesn't really look like it's going to buck tradition.

Still, it's better than what Shounen use be like about 40 years ago. I think there no major female characters back then for that genre.
 
It's not so much as there being something wrong with damsels, it's more like people wanting to see a change. The whole "damsel in distress" has been used to the bone, and I can certainly see how tiring it is to keep seeing girls being used this way. I, for one am bout ready to drop the whole shonen genre because of it. (It's becoming, if it's not already played out.) Then again, I can only assume that this is the problem... It is for me anyway.

One Piece and Soul Eater (I think that qualifies) has been a little refreshing for me because the females are actually doing something that your average damsel don't do, which is fight. If I recall from Superman TAS (I never read the comics), Lois talked a big game, but didn't do much of anything in the end. (I suppose talking a big game and saying whatever's on your mind should count for something though.) I don't remeraber too much of the cartoon either so I wouldn't hold me to that. I just don't play any mario games, let alone care about Princess Peach. Someone else gonna tackle that?
 
That's debatable. Considering her only solo game involved her throwing emotional fits as her main powers, I wouldn't say that's progressive. "PMSing" as a superpower is pretty insulting.

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My main problem with the debate is that it seems like people who say there isn't a problem out there are more often than not guys, and many of them seem to have a warped sense of gender roles. They're fine with women being mainly spunky cheerleaders who don't do much good in the long run other than ship with the main male characters. It's hard for me to take their stance seriously when they list Lois Lane or Sakura from Naruto as progressive or impowering.

Gotta have pretty low, early 1900s standarRAB if that's the case.
 
Lois is a Pulizter Prize winning journalist and an expert at basic hand 2 hand corabat. I hate Sakura, but even she's a medic kunoichi prodigy who the best of her generation and Tsunade's successor. She's also the future wife to Sasuke, the best skilled ninja of his generation and the last sharigan user.

I say women are pretty damn strong when their main male love interests aren't around.
 
Fat lot a good those skills and accomplishments do them when in story-oriented danger. No matter how you spin it, they're relegated to damsels in distress or cheerleaders or both in their respective stories. You don't see them really mattering in the overall plot, and are only there to "marry Sasuke/Clark Kent" etc. It's almost like they're strong in concept, but the writer(s) stick them in traditional gender roles in execution.

I think you're grasping at straws there.
 
You really should watch Hatenkou Yuugi. Rahzel is like the total opposite of that. D:

Even after Alzeid made her promise not to use her powers, she could still kick people's butts.
 
Sadly, I'm probably the only one here who has watched Hatenkou Yuugi (and I liked it), and seriously we do need more Rahzel's out there
 
This seems similar to another recent topic, so it's merge time.

Wouldn't say there's a tremendous bias. Rukia was turned into a decent fighter, the Naruto girls are all chuunin and more mature, and Tsunade is theoretically one of the more powerful characters in the comic and a good leader. One Piece does get Nami and Robin much more involved, though. In any given adventure the Straw Hats generally are all up to something, which is an an improvement on the common "stand on the sidelines and commentate" cliche.

So I'd say it's less a character bias than it is a contrast between the unusual writing of One Piece and the other big shonen series. Although, it'd be hard to deny that Sakura has had the least focus among the former team 7, considering the great focus that's been given to Sasuke and Naruto recently.
 
Yeah, Lois gets too much of an unfounded bad rep. She's smart and tough as nails. She looks weak next to Superman, but he's freaking Superman. That's like saying Green Arrow and Jimmy Olsen are syrabols against men because they look weak next to Supes too.



This part is rather debatable, however, unless you are Kishimoto in disguise.
 
Pretty much what the whole thing boils down to. And males tend to be the target audience, which is why male characters tend to be the main focus, female characters tend to be non existent (dead-mother syndrome) or wear fanservice-y outfits and get into fanservice-y situations when they do exist. Occasionally you'll get a series that is written by a male and doesn't use any of those (like W.I.T.C.H.), but those are usually once every five-hundred years or so
 
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