Shounen heroines and heroism

I can call it a stereotype. If a show follows in the same vein of other shows which have traditionally, next to nothing to offer to guys, then guys will not watch.

Also, slightly off topic, but you're playing the politician for WITCH on a lot of threaRAB. Any reason?



General personality yes. Subtleties that convince you it's a natural female and not a "dude with boobs?" Not so much. Most of these are being written by men, and admittedly, a lot of them (not all) might feel uncomfortable writing something they're not. Guys can write guys easily. They're guys. Writing something you're not and doing it well is another matter.



Fun fact, Lara Croft was supposed to be a guy at first. Making her a guy was a last second programming decision.

And while I'm not saying that they were perfect (far from it) stuff like Bubblegum Crisis, Dirty Pair, Ghost in the Shell, etc were popular. That's what makes the trend towarRAB magical girl and moe so frustrating.
 
I wouldn't say the show follows in the vein any other show I've seen. There's plenty of stuff there to appeal to guys. Dismissing it because they have some pink in their outfits seems unfair.

Aside from it being my favorite series; it breaks a lot of stereotypes and tropes, so it seems like a good series to use in topics that involve those subjects.

What is a 'dude with boobs' anyway? Is there some rule that women can't be apathetic and lazy like Shikamaru or something? Or loud and annoying like Naruto? I see plenty of girls like that in college.

Smart move, it paid off for them.

Those shows don't seem (to me, anyway, correct me if I'm wrong) to be aimed at the same demographic as Sailor Moon and the other magical girl stuff. Still, I guess regulating girl roles to waving a wand around to vanquish a monster isn't any better than dressing them half-naked and shooting guns. At least they show some physical endurance in that scenario.
 
If a male writer can only write male characters realistically, then they're bad writers, end of story. There are plenty of female authors who can write realistic male characters, so there's no excuse.

It's nice to see people like Beat feel that men are the default and if females have complex personalities/goals/problems then that makes them not women but "men with boobs".

I guess anime DOES have the potential to establish whacked out social standarRAB in their audience.
 
I'm not saying men the default, nor are women by virtue of gender.

The "dudes with boobs" isn't my own either. It was a comment from a female writer. Alright? I don't like being told I have a warped mind because I brought up someone else's concern. The point of that was simply, it's very hard to draw a gender-neutral character, and if you create a gender neutral character, people may ask if it's believable. You could make Shino a female and make her a bug-loving mute, but would she be entirely the same as a male version? And more importantly, would those around him/her act the same way? The characteristics of the person is only 50% of the dynamic. The other 50% is the interactions with others, and people would react differently.
 
Which, frankly, gets old and annoying fast. Not every show should have to be put into comparasion with WITCH, no matter what your opinions on the matter. Things should be judged on their OWN merits, not their merits in comparasion to something that you consider superior (example: the morons who hate on "The Batman" because it doesn't reach "B:TAS" heights.)

Really, it's getting to the point where it seems you're belittling other shows for the sake of getting everyone else to share your opinion on WITCH. If that's not your intention, then please, reconsider how you go about "playing politician", as Beat says.
 
I'm really irritated by how many people say they want to discuss "magical girls" based on having watched Nanoha. The former was explicitly made as a fanservice vehicle for men-- it's a spin-off of an h-game, for pity's sake-- and while it's very good given that genre, it has basically nothing to do with shoujo magical girls once you get out of the first season. Even in the first season it's a magical girl satire for men at best, more comparable to Pretty Sammy than anything else.

The magical girl genre is defined by all sorts of shows that most people who claim to be into it won't watch, because horror of horrors, they were designed for little girls. I'm sorry, though, but unless you can talk about Akazukin Cha-Cha or Nurse Angel Lilica SOS or Minky Momo or Mermaid Melody or Pretty Cure then you don't really know what a magical girl show is or how the basic genre works, and you have no right to act like Nanoha invented the idea of having magical girls deal with "epic destruction".
 
Okay, Whoa, I was just trying to wonder if that would be an example of good development or not. The point I was trying to bring up was that it did have nothing to do with shoujo magical girls and I wondered if that would count with the earlier thoughts in the thread. Sorry.

For the record, I love all types of magical girl anime. I have seen Mermaid Melody and have been dying to see PreCure so I'm glad its on CR. Does PPGZ count as one too? I've seen em all....(okay I've seen the ones I've been able to find anyway)
 
Thank you for confirming what I've been hearing about Nanoha. I'm less interested in it now. I hope Pretty Cure isn't the same way.

I think the downfall for alot of magical shows is the length. Alot of those shows shouldn't last more than 1 or 2 seasons (maybe 3 at the most). It seems that after the the first season or two, the shows tend to get repetitive and/or the plot is stretched out. Which is what worries me about Pretty Cure.

I can see why guys are more attracted to a show like Nanoha (talking about the fights). I get sick of magical girl shows ending final battles with the frienRABhip speech, a hug, a hanRABhake, etc. Sailor Moon's battle with Galaxia was a major disappointment. It's the last battle of the series and all she did was touch Galaxia's hand. That's messed up considering she was such a powerhouse in the manga. As much as I love Revolutionary Girl Utena, I find most of the duels to be rather dull. Someone earlier mentioned training, I would love to see something like that. Make it harder for the girls to obtain their magical items or something.
 
Ideally. A character's gender should be invalid compared to their personality. Obviously in our society it's not the case due to the presence of gender roles. Ideally, the writers, characters, and audience should be able to accept a female Shino without thinking twice about it. If the characters can't, than that's usually a sign the writers themselves can't, because it involves writing situations and characters they're uncomfortable with (i.e. girl characters who aren't part of a stereotype or mold.) Basically, if the characters are taken back by it, then that usually means the writers are taken back by it and are writing the confrontation between the characters similar to how they would react.

I don't see a problem with that. It helps distinguish what is bad or good through comparison. The topic involves girls and their roles in series, so using examples from shows as comparisons is a good idea to help back up and clarify a point (as it stanRAB, the show is a great example, and also the one I'm most knowledgeable about, so I use it.) I would say the real problem lies with WITCH being one of the few good examples I can think of, which I can see how it would get old fast if you just use the same show over and over again. However, I feel that says more about the overbearing presence of gender roles in our media and the inability of the male-dominated profession of writers if our selection pool is so very limited that it comes to using the same example over and over again. If you can name another show for an example then the more shows to draw comparisons from the better as it would make for a more elaborate comparison.
 
A good writer is willing to rise to the challenge rather than whining about hard writing a women is. If he can't do that, then perhaps he neeRAB to take up an easier job until he can become more talented.
 
When it comes to realism, then yes, there's sexist people out there so having characters like that would be realistic. But in terms of progression and striving for equality, I would say no. I think bringing up sexism issues in shows only adRAB fuel to the fire for real life issues. If shows start being written without a female warrior being told that she's not 'ladylike' and characters stop preaching 'I told you girls can do anything boys can', then hopefully the younger kiRAB who grow up watching said shows will also be raised to realize that there's nothing 'abnormal' or 'strange' about a character like that and there's no set way girls are 'supposed' to act. But as long as it continues to be pointed out, it'll still be seen as 'abnormal'. I think Joss Whedon said it best: "Why do I keep writing all these female characters? Because you keep asking me that question" (Not that I'm saying Whedon is the pinnacle of equality writing or anything, just that it's a great view to have)
 
I didn't mean entirely sexist. I meant more "she should be more outgoing, but I'd expect a guy to be a bit more secluded, given the people they're around." The rest I'd say is spot on.
 
Back
Top