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Destroy the Rebirth - "Gundam 00" Season 2 on SyFy's Ani-Monday Talkback
- Thread starter Confused44
- Start date
ILovePie123
New member
Haro ownage! Haro ownage!
Exactly. To the extent that they come off as lunatics, it's exactly as planned by Ribbons. Too many people are ignorant about what the reality of the situation is. Which is why Pang is doing this in my book...he knows the truth of A-Laws' misdeeRAB aren't getting out or being acknowledged by people.
Agree or disagree, it's a drastic action taken by desperate people that honestly don't see another way.
This incident will carry over to next week, though that's the most that I'll say about it.
Agree or disagree, it's a drastic action taken by desperate people that honestly don't see another way.
This incident will carry over to next week, though that's the most that I'll say about it.
Savagedancer
New member
Dude, Saiji is so whipped.
But seriously, I can but feel for the guy. He wants to return to the better days, before the world was aflame with war. He wants to be a carefree teenager with a beautiful, spoiled girl living their lives. He doesn't want to be in this situation.
He doesn't want to fight anyone, let alone the woman he loves. Like the elves in Tolkein's works, he longs for a golden age long gone by.
Lousie seems to be more and more psycho recently. Not as bad as Fllay, but shes becoming more and more fanatic. To the point of believing that Saiji was involved with her parents death, and deleting her fond memories. She also lost some comrades , one of which hasd suffered a similar loss to her.
(On a side note, I wonder if that Captian's wife was really killed in a Katalon attack, or some attack by the Alaws?)
One wonders how far will Louise go. She seems more machine than man.
But seriously, I can but feel for the guy. He wants to return to the better days, before the world was aflame with war. He wants to be a carefree teenager with a beautiful, spoiled girl living their lives. He doesn't want to be in this situation.
He doesn't want to fight anyone, let alone the woman he loves. Like the elves in Tolkein's works, he longs for a golden age long gone by.
Lousie seems to be more and more psycho recently. Not as bad as Fllay, but shes becoming more and more fanatic. To the point of believing that Saiji was involved with her parents death, and deleting her fond memories. She also lost some comrades , one of which hasd suffered a similar loss to her.
(On a side note, I wonder if that Captian's wife was really killed in a Katalon attack, or some attack by the Alaws?)
One wonders how far will Louise go. She seems more machine than man.
That Bald Guy again
New member
How was Corner interesting? How was Ribbons not dramatic??
Interesting compared to Ribbons that is. Sure he was gimmicky, at least he had that going for him.
He's a talking head that stanRAB around boasting on about being a talking head.
Ok, that's an unfair assessment. But Ribbons lacked the gravity for the climax. At least Corner had a giant pimped-out mobile armor to create a heavy atmosphere.
Ribbons lacked an element to create a dramatic atmosphere that would fully immerse the viewer.
Edit: The point is, if you're going to have a sword duel to be the climax, you send out someone to create the best atmosphere for a climax. You don't have the Evil Wizard duel the Knight, you send out the Dragon. The Wizard is better suited in behind the scenes, or at least an intellectual defeat.
Or if you're going to send the Wizard out, turn him into something menacing.
He's a talking head that stanRAB around boasting on about being a talking head.
Ok, that's an unfair assessment. But Ribbons lacked the gravity for the climax. At least Corner had a giant pimped-out mobile armor to create a heavy atmosphere.
Ribbons lacked an element to create a dramatic atmosphere that would fully immerse the viewer.
Edit: The point is, if you're going to have a sword duel to be the climax, you send out someone to create the best atmosphere for a climax. You don't have the Evil Wizard duel the Knight, you send out the Dragon. The Wizard is better suited in behind the scenes, or at least an intellectual defeat.
Or if you're going to send the Wizard out, turn him into something menacing.
Never Lose Hope
New member
Yeah a lot of bad stuff has happened to Nena the last couple of episodes, and I don't condome it or approve it.
However it is hard to me to feel much sympathy for her. She killed a bunch of defenseless civilians and has yet to show any remourse or regret for her past actions.
She single handed messed up Louise and in a more in direct way messed up Saji.
Speaking of which, good for Saji, learning his lesson from last time.
However it is hard to me to feel much sympathy for her. She killed a bunch of defenseless civilians and has yet to show any remourse or regret for her past actions.
She single handed messed up Louise and in a more in direct way messed up Saji.
Speaking of which, good for Saji, learning his lesson from last time.
thorrnydevil
New member
Drat! Foiled by a pesky robot orb! Sucks to be her. Or not...
If Louise is Flay, then Ribbons must be Rau le Crueset...
If Louise is Flay, then Ribbons must be Rau le Crueset...
metric bike man
New member
I'm surprised the death toll in that space battle wasn't higher, considering the beating both sides took. Except for one guy, every single main and supporting character managed to survive. Eh, it was still a pretty cool battle to watch, especially with tensions running high. And thank goodness Saji decided not to leave with the machine... I was having flasrabroadacks of Amuro's stupidity there for a second.
Facepalm Jeff
New member
I think we discussed this last season but I don't see anything that could justify what Nena did. 00 doesn't seem to be one of those shows that says 'You did horrible things, but now that's water under the bridge'. The fact is that on a complete selfish whim she killed an entire wedding party. She's a villain and she's lucky to have the standard of living she's got (I doubt Wang has her sleeping on a bed of straw). No backstory the show could present could justify what she did. Just about every on Ptolemy had bad pasts and they turned out to be much better people. A bad past can explain certain things about a person but when it's used to justify truely horrible behaviour it becomes a crutch. Nena has yet to show any remorse for what she did. The only deaths she cares about are those of her brothers. Hopefully she meets a nasty end.
Except Ribbons also represented a Meister corrupted. He's clearly a pilot, and as being one created the chain of events that led up to the finale.
The GN Gold Mobile Armor was a bit menancing, but overall it's threat level was minimal. Exia didn't even get a scratch in that battle.
On the other hand, you have the Reborn Cannon with equal fighting power against the 00 Raiser, Twin Drives and Trans-Am all. The fact that Setsuna barely won after help from the Ptelomy tells you the threat level Ribbons was. Setsuna was down a leg and then some before they downgraded for their final battle.
The GN Gold Mobile Armor was a bit menancing, but overall it's threat level was minimal. Exia didn't even get a scratch in that battle.
On the other hand, you have the Reborn Cannon with equal fighting power against the 00 Raiser, Twin Drives and Trans-Am all. The fact that Setsuna barely won after help from the Ptelomy tells you the threat level Ribbons was. Setsuna was down a leg and then some before they downgraded for their final battle.
Yeah, I don't see how Alejandro in season one was any more active than Ribbons in season 2. Ribbons accomplished far more than he did by way of comparison. Alejandro was very much a talking head in the background before he started laying waste with the Alvatore.
I don't know how Ali or Graham could have ever had the same impact. To me the allegory is foresighted writing at work, hardly a weakness. It's a good thing when characters and story complement each other.
I don't know how Ali or Graham could have ever had the same impact. To me the allegory is foresighted writing at work, hardly a weakness. It's a good thing when characters and story complement each other.
smartixoxo
New member
Alejandro wasn't as active (if anything, he was less active than Ribbons). At least during the climax, he came out a dragon instead of a fop. Although the threat level wasn't as high, the atmosphere created by the ... Whatever the heck it Corner was piloting was well worth the inclusion into the climax.
Ribbons in my opinion, simply lacked that element. Sure, Ribbons was a serious threat, but it wasn't quite visualized.
As for the allegory, consider this: this is a show with giant robots making cool explosions. If you want the climax to be two Ubermechs blowing each other up, then you should focus on the action or enhancing the drama. The message should be secondary in this case.
Ribbons in my opinion, simply lacked that element. Sure, Ribbons was a serious threat, but it wasn't quite visualized.
As for the allegory, consider this: this is a show with giant robots making cool explosions. If you want the climax to be two Ubermechs blowing each other up, then you should focus on the action or enhancing the drama. The message should be secondary in this case.
sangamitra
New member
Action and drama are not mutually exclusive, it is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Gundam is noted for balancing the two, and 00 is no exception. Not to mention that without the drama, you don't have the reason for Setsuna fighting Ribbons in the first place.
I love the Alvatore fight, but I don't think it tops the last duel. The entire final battle was also far bigger and more exciting than the one in season one, where the battle was between 20 and 30 mobile suits (Gundams included). Season 2's final battle spanned four episodes and the fight that started it all in For the Future is one of my very favorites, where they're forced to fight in that that anti-GN particle cloud. Action got plenty of priority.
I love the Alvatore fight, but I don't think it tops the last duel. The entire final battle was also far bigger and more exciting than the one in season one, where the battle was between 20 and 30 mobile suits (Gundams included). Season 2's final battle spanned four episodes and the fight that started it all in For the Future is one of my very favorites, where they're forced to fight in that that anti-GN particle cloud. Action got plenty of priority.
I agree. If you watched 00 just for mecha action then you missed the point. Whilst there were a ton of excellent action scenes, the focus was always on the characters and human progression. It's the reason why the final battle being two outdated MS having a scuffle works so well. The majority of the final battle was to decide humanity's future but that final segment is really much more personally Setsuna vs Ribbons. With a repaired version of his original Gundam, Setsuna destroys the Gundam that inspired him originally. He's gone from being a suffering obsessive to a matured individual.
I love the depth in this series. I'll admit it's not perfect but it is so much better at what it's doing than the CE stuff that took up the rest of the decade ('LOL 666 is in the Gundam's serial nuraber. We r teh subtle!!1'). It did what all great works do- it created a narrative that speaks to the audience of its time and will likely endure after. I know that towarRAB the end we got some more escapist and fantastic elements, but that's Gundam and again the staff even hinted it would happen. All profiles for the 00 Gundam hinted that it's full capabilities were incredible (I belive the exact wording was 'Defy all common sense'). That's the ultimate attitude of the show- the Gundams are supposed to be beyond what we have in reality, but done in a way that is heartwarming and impressive rather than broken like some other entries I could name.
Ultimately, not everyone is going to like 00 and I'm sure they have credible reasons for doing so. But generally, I can't help but feel the current critics have missed the point. I am very hard to impress and early on was ready to call 00 another waste. But it majorly won me over for a variety of reasons and I found in it something that reaffirmed my wider Gundam fandom.
I love the depth in this series. I'll admit it's not perfect but it is so much better at what it's doing than the CE stuff that took up the rest of the decade ('LOL 666 is in the Gundam's serial nuraber. We r teh subtle!!1'). It did what all great works do- it created a narrative that speaks to the audience of its time and will likely endure after. I know that towarRAB the end we got some more escapist and fantastic elements, but that's Gundam and again the staff even hinted it would happen. All profiles for the 00 Gundam hinted that it's full capabilities were incredible (I belive the exact wording was 'Defy all common sense'). That's the ultimate attitude of the show- the Gundams are supposed to be beyond what we have in reality, but done in a way that is heartwarming and impressive rather than broken like some other entries I could name.
Ultimately, not everyone is going to like 00 and I'm sure they have credible reasons for doing so. But generally, I can't help but feel the current critics have missed the point. I am very hard to impress and early on was ready to call 00 another waste. But it majorly won me over for a variety of reasons and I found in it something that reaffirmed my wider Gundam fandom.
I'm not saying that the Final Battle was disappointing. That was rather epic. The problem I had was the final fight between Setsuna and Ribbons.
One other issue I wanted to discuss was wither or not it was a good idea for the show to become more like a Gundam series in season 2. Yes, I know the intent was to do this. However, as I stated eralier, the series seemed to suffer as a result of this shift.
Season 1 was facisinating because it was so different from most Gundam series, creating a new vision that was sorely lacking in Seed Destiny. It was mysterous, with questionable protagonists and even more questionable actions.
Season 2 seemed to fore go all that, and because just a regular Gundam series. Ok, a Gundam series that was well produced and entertaining. But in the end, it felt like show show never reached its fullest potential. It could have been a trail blazer. instead, it felt like it stagnated.
One other issue I wanted to discuss was wither or not it was a good idea for the show to become more like a Gundam series in season 2. Yes, I know the intent was to do this. However, as I stated eralier, the series seemed to suffer as a result of this shift.
Season 1 was facisinating because it was so different from most Gundam series, creating a new vision that was sorely lacking in Seed Destiny. It was mysterous, with questionable protagonists and even more questionable actions.
Season 2 seemed to fore go all that, and because just a regular Gundam series. Ok, a Gundam series that was well produced and entertaining. But in the end, it felt like show show never reached its fullest potential. It could have been a trail blazer. instead, it felt like it stagnated.
I'm mixed. On the one hand, I would have liked to have seen the style of season one kept. When I first saw the S1 epilogue, I was upset because the show suddenly looked like it had a collision head on with Gundam cliches. There is definetly an air in season one that can't be found in season two.
However, this was the point of the story. From the moment Setsuna attacks that Enact, the world is on the road to massive reform. Celestial Being put the rest of humanity in a corner to unite as was their plan which arguably succeeded. The point of season 2 was that a noble goal had been hijacked by Ribbons and so the new world wasn't better at all. Season 1's official tagline was 'Rebirth begins through destruction', whilst season 2's was 'We will destroy the rebirth'. You could take those further, since Ribbons name refers to Rebirth/Reborn. I think it's quite logical that someone would come along and try and hijack the plan. Season 1 showed that if Ribbons hadn't, someone like the Corner family would have. In season 2 the world is basically Ribbons play thing and it's become fairly nightmarish in being subject to his whims. Hence we have things like A-Laws, 'license holders' and formerly honoured soldiers like Sergei are smacked around and betrayed.
However, this was the point of the story. From the moment Setsuna attacks that Enact, the world is on the road to massive reform. Celestial Being put the rest of humanity in a corner to unite as was their plan which arguably succeeded. The point of season 2 was that a noble goal had been hijacked by Ribbons and so the new world wasn't better at all. Season 1's official tagline was 'Rebirth begins through destruction', whilst season 2's was 'We will destroy the rebirth'. You could take those further, since Ribbons name refers to Rebirth/Reborn. I think it's quite logical that someone would come along and try and hijack the plan. Season 1 showed that if Ribbons hadn't, someone like the Corner family would have. In season 2 the world is basically Ribbons play thing and it's become fairly nightmarish in being subject to his whims. Hence we have things like A-Laws, 'license holders' and formerly honoured soldiers like Sergei are smacked around and betrayed.