"Concerned Citizens of the United States" Looking Out for Our Interests!

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Bricker said:
Most likely. But... legal or illegal? You say "guilty," as though data mining is a crime. But take a look at this site and its many clones to discover what can be learned for free.
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I say "guilty" because information is being uncovered that these virtuous saints of fairness and rectitude may have committed a crime by the way they mined their data, who they received it from, and the types of data they were able to collect which, if found to be the case, is illegal in the state of Utah.

Bricker said:
In this case, of course, illegals have an interest in staying off the radar, so I doubt it was as simple as that. But your first comment is that they were turned in based on their "ethnicity, appearance, or country of origin." If the list is indeed mostly illegals, then it's very likely that some additional criteria was used.
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Very likely, in this case, I agree. However, in my opinion, it quacks, so pardon me if I fail to see any altruistic motive on the part of these folks. I think it would be asking for belief to be stretched beyond reasonableness to assert that surname was not a primary search criteria, considering that most, if not all, names on the list are Latino.

ETA: Hmm, I see now that Hispanic residents are beginning to contact local authorities as they find that their names are on the list. It should be interesting to see how this all washes out as it seems a number of the victims of this racist assault may actually be US citizens. Imagine that.
 
Condescending Robot said:
Racism from a hired killer really does have more of an edge to it.
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Hired killer? To be fair, for all I know he was a medic who saved lives or a recruiter or a machinist in a base in Japan. But it doesn't matter. A couple of years of working for the US government doesn't lend one's opinion weight.
 
Jeff Lichtman said:
I'd like to send the names of the people behind this to media outlets on a list of "suspected" child molesters.
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Can't be pulled off. Everyone knows that Catholic priests don't get married, especially not to multiple women.
 
The helpful folks at a Utah based organization called "Concerned Citizens for the United States" helpfully sent a list of 1300 alleged undocumented immigrants to media outlets, and various state and federal law enforcement agencies. Nothing like a little "vigilante" justice even if it smacks of McCarthyism and even a kind of terrorism.

Salt Lake City Tribune

Especially when it turns out that the folks are not necessarily illegal in any sense of the word.

Two women on the list who were contacted by The Salt Lake Tribune said they are in the country legally. One said she recently became a permanent legal resident.
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Not to mention that the information released probably was obtained illegally:

Utah law makes it a misdemeanor to disclose government data not meant for public dissemination, though there are protections for whistle blowers. The list included names, addresses, birth dates, phone numbers, and 31 social security numbers. Also included: the names and dates of birth of 201 children, and the due dates of six pregnant women. Almost every surname is Latino.
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I understand the frustration with illegal immigration, although I also think it is one of those issues where it just makes people feel good to blame the "brown man" for all the ills of the world. But I find this kind of behaviour beyond the pale, what a bunch of scum to take this route.
 
kaylasdad99 said:
I do have the sense that such laws have historically been enforced, and in some cases, have been written in such a way as to put members of some ethnic groups at a disproportionate and inequitable disadvantage.
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Yes. No to be snarky, but I think this is fair territory to observe, "no shit." Yes, our immigration laws, almost by definition, put members of some ethnic groups at a disadvantage. That's essentially a necessary consequence of immigration laws.
 
Bricker said:
Yes. No to be snarky, but I think this is fair territory to observe, "no shit." Yes, our immigration laws, almost by definition, put members of some ethnic groups at a disadvantage. That's essentially a necessary consequence of immigration laws.
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That's a really good point and something I hadn't thought about before. Thanks.
 
Really Not All That Bright said:
I breathlessly await your suggestions as to how these innocent do-gooders ascertained the legal residency status of all those no-good illegals.

Breathlessly.
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I gave one above.

The organization I support as a board member is responsible for helping mothers-to-be and mothers of newborns with clothes, diapers, food, baby furniture, vocational training, and language classes. We keep records of all our clients, the vast majority of which are illegal aliens.

A ne'er-do-well with access to my organization's records could easily compile a list similar to the one we're discussing here. And so far as I know, they could do it without violating any law.

I note again that my actual organization would never do any such thing, and in fact as a result of this discussion I am going to make sure we stop documenting residency status, so we would not be compelled to release information someday that could be used in this way; what you don't have, you can't be subpoenaed into providing.

But that's secondary to the question you asked.
 
Bricker said:
2. Your question assumes a fact not in evidence: that the list was obtained illegally. How do you know this?
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We know it now. In case you missed it, from the AP:
Utah officials said Friday they have identified at least two state workers who apparently accessed confidential documents to create a list of 1,300 purported illegal immigrants that was mailed to law enforcement officials and the news media.

...

Intentionally releasing a private record in Utah is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. If someone stole such a record, it could be prosecuted as a felony with a penalty punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine.
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Well, a lot of it has also been about closing the door of opportunity behind you.
 
Bricker said:
Yes. No to be snarky, but I think this is fair territory to observe, "no shit." Yes, our immigration laws, almost by definition, put members of some ethnic groups at a disadvantage. That's essentially a necessary consequence of immigration laws.
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In what sense is it a necessary consequence? :dubious:
 
Onomatopoeia said:
I say "guilty" because information is being uncovered that these virtuous saints of fairness and rectitude may have committed a crime by the way they mined their data, who they received it from, and the types of data they were able to collect which, if found to be the case, is illegal in the state of Utah.
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Right, I see. Well, it's hard to argue with that: if they committed a crime, then clearly 'guilty' is the right word to use.

Very likely, in this case, I agree. However, in my opinion, it quacks, so pardon me if I fail to see any altruistic motive on the part of these folks. I think it would be asking for belief to be stretched beyond reasonableness to assert that surname was not a primary search criteria, considering that most, if not all, names on the list are Latino.

ETA: Hmm, I see now that Hispanic residents are beginning to contact local authorities as they find that their names are on the list. It should be interesting to see how this all washes out as it seems a number of the victims of this racist assault may actually be US citizens. Imagine that.
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Again, it depends on how they assembled the list. It doesn't make much sense to me for them to have taken, say, the phone book, and listed all the Hispanic names they see there. I imagine they started with some source more likely to yield illegal aliens -- a government social services agency or a private one. If the former, we have the spectre of criminal violation.
 
I see nothing wrong with concerned citizens reporting illegals to the relevant authorities, no more than I would have a problem with a person who reported that their neighbour was a law-breaker.

It is the duty of every good citizen to report illegals and other lawbreakers, and not turn a blind eye to their activities.
 
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