Can I be in "recovery" while taking Suboxone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kewood
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Hello Iain & ILB!
Hope you are both well. I'm hanging in there. Off to see my psych doc today and probably try a psychostimulant to go along with my anti depressant as my depression really hasn't lifted all that much and it's really affecting my ability to work, be present for my daughter, and just find any peace and comfort in life. I've been struggling these past months and hadn't really wanted to go the stimulant route but I just feel like I can't live like this anymore and so I'm going to give it a try. If it helps, great, if not well....at least I tried. Iain, you sound really busy, glad to hear school is going well. And your dating life, still dating the same girl? Hope that is going well also.
ILB, are you still hanging in there? Did you increase the Subutex and are the cravings lessening? I hope you are doing well and sticking to your recovery plan. I know it's hard but we can do it with the help of eachother and other supports. You keep up the good work. Have you gotten lots of bike riding in? I put my MC away for the winter. The cold is upon us and snow will be coming soon. I am down to 4mg. of Subutex a day and I think I will go down to 2mg in the next couple of weeks. I'm feeling good about that. I want to be off as many medications as I can and keep the ones I really need only. Well guys and gals, I'm off to an appointment but it's so nice to hear from you and I do think of you both often, really I do! Take care,

Karen
 
Hi Guys
Man do you both re read what you have written sometimes. It is very good and you both have fantastic insight into your conditions. We really are all very special hey? My therapist said that it is rare to have such insight to what is happening in your mind so we my frienRAB are both special and rare.
Iain I love that saying "emotionally defrosting from an emotional Iceage." That is sooooo true and a great way to look at it.
Kew I know exactly what you are saying when you say you feel somewhat depersonalised. I have the remnents of borderline personality disorder. I often feel quite detached like I am in a dream not really here. The things is I know I am here where in the past I used to have full blown personality disorder where i detached completely and did not know I was doing it or remeraber what happened. Some of the sensations have been returning since I have been coming off my anti depressant and also dealing with my past. I believe that I get these detached feelings when I am reaching overload point. Maybe a memory too difficult to deal with at this time. Its my brains way of stopping me from burning out again completely. When something is too hard to deal with it goes on a bit of a holiday. If I think too much about it I notice it more and it starts to freak me out. Thing is you wont lose touch of reality completely because you have too much insight as to what is going on. So dont be too concerned it to will pass like riding the wave of depression, eventually it will pass. It is only a thought but you were saying you recently went on a new medication that too might be giving you some of the detachment type feelings as it builRAB up in your system and you adjust to it. "Candy" is one of my favorite movies. Not just because it reminRAB me of what can happen if I relapse but because I love Heath Ledger. It has been a long time since I was that bad with the drugs. Thankfully I never went as far as prostituting myself or anything like that, but I did still do a lot of bad stuff and I regret terribly what I put my family, frienRAB and husband and children through. When I was at my worst around 19 I was anorexic, taking and shooting whatever drugs I could get my hanRAB on. When I went into detox I had seizures due to withdrawals, I was in and out of detox and rehab for nearly 10 years. I saw a guy die in front of me due to withdrawal seizures. I took several overdoes and nearly died, I constantly tried to harm myself once trying to jump out of a car going 100km/h, slashed my wrists spent a month in a mental hospitial after suffering a complete mental breakdown. There are so many stories I could tell. Now at 48 I feel for the first time in my life that I might actually make it.
Iain
Thankyou so much for you worRAB of support. I promise if I ever get that bad again and I am comtemplating that crap I will talk. I will see if I can get hold of that movie shutter island dont think I have seen it. I feel sad for you that you are hurting. Life can really suck sometimes. It sounRAB to me that this girl maybe is not worthy of you? You know its those of us who have the big hearts and generally care about others that get hurt the most because we are too dam trusting.
You are doing so well and have wisdom way beyond your years. There is someone special out there for you i'm sure of it. I watched my own son several years ago have his heart ripped out. It was such a hard thing to do. He now is doing better than ever and just announced his engagement to a wonderful girl he me who supported and assisted him through his diagnosis of Bi-Polar(manic depression)disorder. As for the emotions its not a bad thing to be able to feel them providing you control them and not the other way around. I have great difficulty lately feeling anything. I think I may need to go back on an anti depressant. Trying to find one that goes with the subutex is the hard part. Oh well my frienRAB take care will be thinking of you both Stay Strong and be nice to yourselves.
ILB
 
Kew,

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you.

Yes, part of the reason I'm starting to taper is because it just "feels" right. Part of the reason is because my doc suggested that this would be a good time to start (I'm very early in my taper, not down where a lot of the other people here are - it's probably not even considered "tapering" yet). I have an appointment this afternoon, and I'm going to ask him to cut my dose again. I think the doc has a plan, but he won't share too much with me (I'm not really crazy about him, but not too many docs in my area can prescribe sub). He won't really go into the "nitty gritty" part of the tapering with me, at least at this point in time.

With my doc's ok, I wanted to get my cravings "stabilized", and my "emotional wake-up" a bit under control before I tried to taper. I didn't want to get off sub when I was still craving a lot, or still in my addict mind-set, because I knew I would set myself up for failure. I guess, in a way, I used sub as a "crutch" while trying to straighten myself out a little bit. I still have "issues", but I feel I can deal with them better now, so now is time for me to taper. Oh, during my year on sub, I've also been getting intensive individual therapy to help me learn coping skills I never learned while I was using. I agree with you, if I was still taking hanRABful of Norco, I wouldn't be considering straightening up my life at all; for me, the sub has made it possible for me to take care of some things that would trigger me. It's like a safety net, so I know if I run into a difficult part right now, when I'm not able to deal with things on my own, I've got someplace to fall that isn't opiates, if that makes any sense.

No, I'm not familiar with EMDR, but it sounRAB interesting, especially for the severe issues you are dealing with. I totally understand your inability to get at your feelings, as I have that problem, too. I bet there are lots of adddicts that have the same thing. I always thought things like "happy" and "fearful" were "feelings" - I get what my therapist means about "feelings" vs. facts, descriptions, that "rational" stuff, but it's still very hard to touch my feelings, especially the horrible ones, the ones I don't even want to think about, but I have to deal with them because I don't want to go back to using.

Confusing, sometimes, right? I guess that's life, and at least now I remeraber what I'm confused about, rather than being so fuzzy I can't remeraber my own name half the time.

Keep on riding that rollercoaster with the rest of us...and let me know how you're doing.

rose

edit for PS: Another reason I've stayed on sub for so long is that I was on the opiates for 12+ years, and my doc said he'd like to have me stay on sub for a "long-ish" period of time, based on how long I used and how much I used (I was eating them like M&Ms). He wanted me to have enough time to at least start addressing the things in therapy that I used as an excuse to start on the opiates to begin with.

(Sorry for the length of this post)

edited for spelling correction
 
Thanks for the kind worRAB but I guess I don't have rock solid balls....subutex is what is working for me right now.

KEW
 
Hi Kew and anyone else
How you travelling. I've been doing it tough the last week. If I could get a brain transplant reckon would be ok:confused: My doctor says I have to up my dose so thats what I am doing. Its a balancing act because of the anti depressant I am on. It feels like you are in a battle for your life, thoughts, cravings desires want to pull you back into the life of drugs and the hell that comes with it and the rational part of you is saying no way and the battle is on. :mad: It is still early days for me I guess has only been seven weeks after many years of using. I have everything to gain and a hell of a lot to lose. I'm so tired of fighting and at times I just want to give up and give in to the desires of my mind and the delusion that it will make me feel better. Does this sh.. ever stop:confused: I start the higher dose in three days so hopefully it will help.:) The thought that I will still have to continue to fight this fight for the next so many years is almost too overwhelming at times. Someone tell me it gets better please! Sorry guys just having a difficult time of it. Tomorrow is another day and another day closer to recovery.
ILB
 
Hi ILB,
I agree that there is a big difference between the Subutex & Suboxone. I had a rare "pain syndrome" due to the Naloxone in the Suboxone so had to go on Subutex instead. It works well and I too, feel like it has saved my life. What is your dose? I'm currently on 16mg and will reduce to 12mg when my doc ok's it. I worry sometimes about going off of it and how hard that will be but for now, it's allowing me to work, parent my daughter, get into some recovery meetings, socialize and basically live a normal life without the constant nightmare of addiction to painkillers and the horror that it brings into our lives. I'm grateful for this program and very grateful that I'm on Subutex. It's yet another tool in my little toolbox of recovery. Someday I hope not to need it but for now it's what it is. Safe riding and take care!

KEW
 
"Holding hanRAB across the globe" although none of us really know eachother the battle is the same wherever you are and whatever you do, all we can do is make sure whatever we do, we stay focused, life up untill now has dealt me a good few blows, some my own fault, some outwith my control, all these have made me into someone who finRAB it hard to trust anyone and have realised thats why in the past i`ve kept myself to myself because if the only person you trust is yourself you can only blame yourself if you end up getting hurt, this unfortunatly can and has led to a very lonely excistance, even recently i`ve found myself coming out of my shell and trusting only once again to be let down and being hurt, this in turn has led me to question my faith in all people which is unfair because not everyone is out to hurt me, but everytime i do get hurt i reset myself to my default setting of not trusting anyone,this is where i`m at at the moment, things get so grey and messed up in my head that a return to the chaos of my using life seem`s more appealing than the torment that life can deal me.
It`s quit confussing sometimes and i end up giving myself a massive headache thinking about it. MUST STAY STRONG even when faced with what seem`s like defeat, life has always had a knack of defeating me or should i say i have a knack of giving in to defeat when faced with it.
It`s all about the eternal struggle between the demons on one shoulder and my angels on the other. But if you never try you`ll never know. Talk to you soon. Take care Kew
 
Heh Kim am really glad yer doing a wee bit better yer new meRAB sound like there working and don`t worry about them making you alittle drowsy try tae think of it just making you a wee bit mello, we all have to be a wee bit mello to deal with life on lifes terms, am nae on any meRAB atoll and am so mello most of the time that i feel like am a marshmallow man or should i say a marshmello man in a manic world. SounRAB crazy i know, but thats just me:dizzy::rolleyes:Have a tremendous start to the new year and all the best to you and yer family. Toodle-oo the noo!:wave:
 
Heh Kim hows tricks sorry i`ve nae been in touch lately been busy behond belief this past couple`ll of weeks, i hope you are keeping alright and not letting the stresses of life get on top, am doing good only two weeks into my course and am getting bogged down with homework, but it`s all good started seeing someone can`t remeraber if i told you about her but she`s beautiful she looks like Alisha Keys a wee bit only much much better looking, i know you and others told me to be careful but can`t help myself sometimes. I realised just recently that i write my text`s on my mobile phone and also my messages to you the same way as i speak so here`s a quick lesson; wee-little. fit-what. fae-from. tae-to. We`re a strange race but heh variety is after all the spice of life. Right am going just wanted to keep in touch and i can sense myself starting to talk crazyness. Be cool and Take care. Iain.
 
Hey Kew
How awesome is this. We are sharing the same struggle supporting each other in three different parts of the world.
Mate I underatnd what you are saying. I too often feel "stuck" as you put it. My opinion is that our soul (mind,will and emotions) has been so damaged that it doesnt know how to function normally and without the opiates that we came to rely on to help us feel nothing. As the others have shared it is all part of the human experience. One thing I have noticed not being on the drugs is that everything now seems amplified. That is sound, taste, all the senses for that matter. So when I feel pain I really feel pain, when I am sad it is intense. Its like the nervous system is at times overloading with sensations that are new in a way as they are no longer dulled out of existence. That "I was happy at least when I used" is false mate. Its the brain trying to trick us into thinking that we felt better using. The problem is we didnt feel at all. This is not an easy road and anyone who says we are weak have no idea what they are talking about. We have strength beyond what most people can understand to still be here after what we have been through. Sometimes I think when you are "stuck" as ayou put it you just need to be and go with the flow. In my experience I feel this way when I am overloading myself with things. Whether it be work, home dealing witht he past I let it take over my thinking and then I get bogged down with it all and freeze up emotionally and going into nurab mode. The other thing is learning to feel emotion again and realising that it is not going to kill me. When I lost my brother to a trucking accident two years ago I thought my heart was going to break literally and I just could not cope witht he emotional pain. I got "stuck" and I turned to drugs again to cope. Now two years later I am fighting for my life to gain control again. Part of the step towarRAB recovery is allowing yourself to feel again adn if that means crying then you cry, if it means feeling angry then thats ok too. Dont be too hard on yourself mate you are doing amazingly well. You have helped me more than you can know. When I jumped on this site I was at rock bottom and considering giving up taking my life to end all the pain or perceived pain. Then I found this person on the other side of the world who understood and rides bikes too:) I can feel your strength all the way from here in Australia. There are going to be good days and not so good days and you know that ok its life. Iain our new friend from Glascow says it so well "Always remeraber WHAT WE FEAR MOST DOES NOT HAVE A HOLD ON US, IT`S THE FEAR ITSELF THAT HOLRAB US BACK. We can do this and support each other through this even though we are in different parts of the world and that in itself is so awesome. Thankyou for sharing and treat yourself when you are not feeling so good with something you enjoy doing. Take a ride and experience the wind on your face and the smells of nature. Hang in there it will get better again. One thing I have learnt after suffering from depressive illness for 30+ years is the blues will lift eventually you just have to ride the wave. Take care ILB:wave:
 
Torcal, I think this is an overstatement. " do what your doctors tell you to do.""

A doctor has no magic understanding of the individual. I think "considering" a doctors advise in addiction can be helpful but ultimately one neeRAB to take personal responsibility. I also would not consider AA much of a resource. This is my honest opinion.
 
Hi Ian
Thanks for your post. WorRAB of wisdom and very true. I know deep down that I have made the right decision to go on the program as the first step towarRAB full recovery and eventually substance free living. It is a hard road but not as hard as the road of addiciton I reckon. My biggest fear is that it wont work and I will end up using again and this time I might not survive it. My brain has a tendency to jump ahead too far and I worry about what has not even occurred. Just going through a bit of a tough patch with old mind sets trying to push their way back in. Thanks for the support.
ILB
Glasgow wow isnt modern tech amazing. I am in Queensland Australia. Welcome:wave:
 
Very good, glad you have insight to your predisposition.
It always helps to recognize that you have a problem. When people don't recognize it or refuse to recognize it...they don't get better.
So, you have a good chance of a full recovery.
God bless.
 
Heh Karen how`s life treating ye?:wave:just thought i`d keep in touch cause it`s been a wee while since i wrote last, hopefully ye`ve been managing to deal with any anxiety problems that may have come up since ye got hame fae visiting yer folks in the big orange, i mean apple,:rolleyes:thats what i hope anyway, and do ye know what i`ve got the copyright on crazyness but am quit happy about that because thats what makes us all individuals would`nt ye just hate to be the same as so called normal people, how can anyone truely be sane in an insane world?:dizzy: I have my doubts! I can`t even begin to tell you how cold it is here at the moment like -8 during the day but i guess it`s the time of year. Just incase i don`t get a chance gonna do me a favour and enjoy the festive and break in the new year gently. Your very long distant friend Iain. :wave:Here`s a wee picture of myself so ye can put a face to the crazy comments or if ye really want ye can print it out and pin it on yer dartboard and use it for target practiceView attachment 432 Oop`s my mistake!View attachment 433 although the similarities between the two pictures is uncanny. Take Care.
 
I know this drug taste great like candy, (orange) just like the fruit

I think Sub tastes NASTY and I'm taking Subutex which even tastes worse! The idea of any of us achieving "perfection" in our lifetime is simply unrealistic. My beliefs are obviously different than your as I don't subscribe to the Christian belief that "God gave man dominion over all beings (including women & children!!??)" this is nuts. I'm a Buddhist and believe that all sentient beings deserve the same love, compassion and release from suffering that we humans do. This may make it easier to open my mind to lots of different types of recovery. I know we can strive to become the best we can be & that's all I can ask, just that I do my best....thanks!

kew
 
Hi Kim,
sorry you injured your hand...I know what it's like to have an uncontrollable rage and not know what to do with it, it's scary. I think I also have lots of built up anger from my past and never dealing with it, always trying to be the "nice gal". F@#$ that anymore! I need to learn to be more assertive and stand up for myself more. It only stuRAB the anger when I try to be nice to everyone all the time no matter how they treat me. I like what you said about depression feeding on feelings, it is so true! It's so hard when you're in that deep, dark place but it's really important to "act as if" I have learned that when I pretend I'm feeling ok, I can actually feel better and have a better day. My doc did start me on a low dose of Ritalin and I'm pleased to say that I am feeling SO much better, not high or speedy but just seemingly back to my "normal" self. I'm also doing good on 4mg of Subutex and in a few wks would like to try to decrease to 2mg. I'm not in any hurry to get off but the fewer meRAB I am on, the better I feel about myself not having to rely on medication for everything in my life!
Iain, hope school is going well. I love hearing from you guys, you make my day! Take care both of you!

Karen
 
kewood;

Heh my name is Iain i`am currently living in Glasgow, Scotland, and am myself just at the begining stages of my own recovery revolution have only been off my methadone for a few months.
I suppose i can`t really comment on suboxone cause i`ve never been on it, but you hear the same horror stories about methadone as you do about suboxone so for a start none of is alone there is always someone out there who can relate.
All i would say is if it takes some of the chaos out of your life even of it only seems like a small amount it can only be a good thing.
As for your emotions being all over the place i believe that can only good all be it hard to understand where they come from sometimes it`s probably got something to do with the fact that we used drugs to surpress our emotions for so many years it`s to be expected.
I found myself on more than one occasion bursting onto tears for apparently no reason, maybe it`s gratitude for still being alive for me that rings true,we are all emotionally defrosting.
My advise would be to get a detox program set up as soon as you feel comfortable and try not to be impatient.
I also go to a couple of n.a meeting a week that along with other activities i enjoy doing all helps.
My experience is that recovery is possible if you really want it, so stick by your guns and keep fighting the good fight.
And remeraber your never alone. Take care. Iain
 
Heh oxygirl my name is Iain i live in a far off place called Glasgow Scotland, your probably right the pill addiction can at times seem worse than the pain it`s prescibed for, it`s a balancing act you have to keep an eye on whether taking yer pills has a positive or negative effect on your wellbeing once it starts becoming negative you may have to explore other pain relief remede`s, am no expert i`ve been through it though with regarRAB to coming off a methadone script i`ve been free of the green death (meth) for over 6 months now it all depend on the kind`ve pain your in. You also need to keep an eye on yer chity chity bang bang (yer head) cause yer head will eventually tell you you can`t survive without your pain relief thats when you`ll begin to swap one problem for another. One thing you must try and keep in you head is that no matter how lonely you may feel at times your never alone even when it comes to a crazy:dizzy:Scotsman identifying with what you are going through. We are driven by fear but it`s not what we fear the most that has the hold over us, it`s the fear itself. Feel free to write back or ignore i don`t have direct access to the interweb but i will always reply eventually. Do me one favour please and take care. Iain.:wave:
 
I abused opiates (primarily oxycodone, heroin and hydromorphone) along with heavy benzodiazapine and alcohol use for the majority of my adult life. Drugs were my life. For the past 5 years I made many futile attempts to get clean (psychiatry, religion, family, isolating, etc.) and, for me personally, none of these methoRAB were sufficient. Suboxone was the only route of recovery I had not taken. Two years ago I decided to take the Suboxone method and I thank God every day I did. The first requirements for taking Suboxone were counseling, drug screens and lots of meetings. My doctor explained to me that Suboxone alone was not a magic bullet to cure opiate addiction but a way to clear your mind of the mental obsession that addicts such as myself have become accustomed to, so that I could build my own program of recovery to keep me clean after Suboxone. At AA/NA meetings I feared people would look down on me for taking Suboxone, but I never experienced any discrimination, only love and acceptance. After mustering up the courage to get a sponsor, my sponsor told me that the only as long as I was taking Suboxone as directed, and not getting high off of it, that this issue was between my doctor and I. He told me I should read "The Doctor's Opinion" in the AA Big Book, and that revealed a lot of light on the matter. I took a maintanance dose of two 8mg tabs a day for a almost a year and after feeling strong enough in my recovery, decided to begin tapering myself off 2 mg at a time (very slowly). Today, after two years, I am still working a program of recovery, chairing meetings, going to college to become a chemical dependency counselor and living life as I want to live (rather than how a drug wants me to live) and I feel I wouldn't be where I am today without Suboxone. In my opinion I have been clean for these two years, even though I took Suboxone for over a year of the two years. In the past two years my lifestyle has been nothing like the life I lived as an active addict. I haven't used any narcotics (besides Suboxone) or alcohol. Suboxone never gave me that rush or euphoria I got from the illicit drugs I was using. Don't beat yourself up for being on Suboxone, it sounRAB like your on the right track.
 
My husband and I have been on suboxone for three years now and if we had not found this miracle drug, we would be dead or in prison. We, at our worst, were taking anything in the narcotic family that was strong enough to ease the pain and keep us from w/d. I feel like suboxone is the greatest thing that has ever happened to us. I try not to think about the replacement of one drug for another, and focus on the fact that we are able to live a normal life now. I have excepted the fact that I may be on suboxone for the rest of my life. There is no shame in treating an illness. People take meRAB for different reasons. My reason is to provide a decent life for my family and for myself. As for the feeling sleepy and being "not so alert" at work, this is something that I felt for about 3-4 weeks after starting suboxone. This feeling faded and I am now only taking 2mgs. a day. Let your doc. know how you feel. If your doc. is anything like ours, he will tell you what to do to help ease these symptoms. I wish you the best, and your not alone.
 
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