Can I be in "recovery" while taking Suboxone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kewood
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Hi wild irish,
I'm wondering, how after a year on sub, did you know it was time to taper off? Did it just "feel" right? Did you and your doc have a plan? I know now after only 60 days on it it's not quite time to be thinking about this but I do, unfortunately I have one of those logical, analytical never stopping minRAB....sometimes I feel like I'm just a walking head! I'm trying to focus on the here and now, and not fear the future or even go forward to far into the future. That has always been one of my biggest struggles & barriers to overcome.
Now, for the nurabing out, I am just starting to do EMDR with my therapist....I'm not sure if you know what it is or have ever done it? It stanRAB for something about rapid eye movement and is often used very successfully with PTSD victims where talk therapy just can't get to those "body memories" or flasrabroadacks of trauma. Well, I've had decades of talk therapy and still feel stuck in the same place, childhood trauma, old injuries, panic, anxiety, depression....I can talk the talk til I'm blue in the face but I really can't seem to change how I feel and act so I'm going to give this a try. I had to do a "pre-EMDR" worksheet where you have to write your 10 most positive memories and 10 most negative memories then list your feelings about yourself, sensations, emotions,etc. I have found it almost impossible to list my feelings! I thought I was good at identifying feelings but I'm not! What I'm good at is stating facts, memories, thoughts, but I just can't seem to get to the FEELINGS behind them....all I can identify is "happy" and "fearful"...interesting all this work, isn't it. What I do know, however, is that if I wasn't on the suboxone and off the hydro, I wouldn't even be contemplating all of this stuff....it's an interesting and exciting road ahead, with its rollercoaster days.

Thanks for all the support everyone!
kew
 
Kew, I have been on subutex for a couple of years now. I have also been in AA since 1983. When I began sobriety I stopped drinking and detoxed from a 200mg a day methadone program. At the time, in NJ, the only thing they gave you was clonidine for withdrawls. That is a blood pressure med. You get so weak you c, an't stand. Anyway, it was a hard detox with nightmarish sleep from placidil and wet sheets from night sweats on a plastic covered mattress. The first couple of months I couldn't believe I didn't have to go to the clinic for my methadone fix. I had been doing so for ten years and being away from it was a dream come true. I equate it with doing a long prison sentence and finally being set free.
When I got into AA through some childhood friend I met a woman, we married, had a daughter. I reached the 18 year mark of my sobriety, and the seventeenth year of the marriage. This was sobriety with no meRAB, I loved the freedom and the life I had.
There are people in AA who take meRAB for all kinRAB of reasons. If I was on methadone, I wouldn't consider myself sober; however, time, a bad back, interferon therapy and a wife who seemed to grow apart from me and I ended up in a rehab for pain meRAB in Florida. I felt I could kick it anytime, pain pills were nothing to methadone. My personality was becoming explosive, negative, hypersensitive after forty eight weeks of interferon therapy. I no longer enjoyed my sobriety. I was fifty years old. Eventually, I ended up on suboxone after one detox. That was it. I found the miracle drug. It is not so addicting, I feel it is more of a psychological drug for my pain and my mind. I go to meetings. I know people who take one percocet a day, well at this point in my life, AA and subutex go well together. If I really wanted out I would, as in methadone I did when my first son was born. Now I have now reason to think I am not sober. When the mind becomes counter productive and pain seems intolerable, subutex gives me the lift, hope and faith I need, along with meetings, I am complete. Furthermore, no one in AA or NA can make me crazy anymore! I have a cushion I needed much. From my years of no meRAB, I developed hypertension and blood pressure that nearly caused me a stroke. I don't have to worry about that anymore. Life is easy now, happy and free. No more, no less than any of the hard liners in AA or NA. My wife was one, that is why we are not together. Kew, stay on the subutex for as long as you like. Share as much as you like at meetings. It is not about them, it is between you and God. And the wonderful thing about subutex is you can't abuse it, nor overdose on it. The want for other drugs will linger, but hang in, it passes. Best, joel
 
Heh Karen 8mg well done nobody said it HAD to be hard and there`s no reason why it can`t be relatively easy or you can at least try teaching yersel to believe that which could help.
And listen don`t worry about the emotions i`d rather be over emotional rather than emotionless.
Thats my own opinion and yer right it`s nae a race there`s nae point in taking two steps forward if you end up taking five back careful careful like a wee mouse, always remain aware of the potential dangers and you won`t go far wrong, have tae go now only on my lunch break fae college. TOODLE-OO!:wave::dizzy:
 
Hi Karen/Iain
Hope you have had a wonderful Christmas. I am doing better. Thanks for the worRAB of wisdom Iain you have a crazy way of saying stuff that just makes so much sense and quitens my soul. You are so rught about what our mind thinks dictates what else we do. My mind was going crazy there for a bit with all kinRAB of weird thoughts. It has calmed down now with the new medication and although it is making me a bit drowsy I can live with that. I have been working on my thoughts more and correcting them before they become obsessions or out of control. There is a preacher called Joyce Myers and she wrote a book called "Battlefield of the Mind." It is really very good and it is true that most of our battles and won and lost in the mind.
Karen I am so proud of you and how you are puching through your stuff. I understand the panic attacks mate have experienced them for years. I am currently going through another bout of agraphobia. I struggle to be out in the public especially at the shops unless someone goes with me. That was triggered by the return of some memories of past trauma which instintly bought back with it all the things I was struggling with at the time. The mind is very powerful. I have been working with a psychologist who specialises in personality disorders. Its been an interesting journey. As a way of coping during my younger years I developed many different aspects of myself to cope with the variuous trauma I was dealing with. To cut a long story short I am gradually bringing all thos aspects back together as the one me. SounRAB pretty crazy hey but it is working. I have an aspect that worries all the time and freaks out when things dont do they way they were palnned. Thats the one that enRAB up with panic attaks and anxiety and locks herslef away for days at a time. It certainly makes life interesting. Oh well as I said the cyrabalta is working and remain on 6mgs of the subutex for now and am looking forward to a much better year. So as we all head into 2012 lets stay strong together:wave:
Kim
ILB
 
Karz, you say that "and you should be able to think the same way"...wow, that's way egotistical. And you know what they say in recovery, "Your EGO is not your AMIGO" :0)
People have to go about their recovery in their own way and time, there are many ways to do that, not just one. Why can't people be on Sub their whole lives? I'm not advocating that for myself but I know people who have that opinion and they feel good about it knowing that is their path and they won't have to worry about relapse or cravings. Many medical conditions require people be on a lifetime of meRAB for their illnesses...diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, hormones, depression, bipolar, schizoprhrenia...it doesn't mean that a pill or drug is CONTROLLING their lives, it means they are taking control of their illness by treating it.
Each person has the right to make their OWN decision about their health and their life without being judged by someone. I'm almost 1 year on Suboxone. I've gotten down to 4mg a day and as high as 16mg a day. It's the main thing keeping me clean and if I have to be on it for years or face the chance of relapse and losing everything that means anything to me, my job, home, family, then I'll stay on it as long as I need to. I've learned over this past year that it's ok to be on Suboxone and it's OK to do what I need to for my own recovery. I suffered from major depressive disorder long before I ever took drugs and my addiction resulted from a need to self-medicate my depression. I just saw an awesome program on PBS that talked about people with depression having a smaller hippocampus in their brain and the longer they went without treatment for depression, the smaller the hippocampus shrunk. As they began treatment, with medication or even with ECT, for those who were medication-resistant, their hippocampus actually stopped shrinking and brain cells, neurons, were actually seen to GROW. Yes, brand new brain cells grew for people on medication for depression. Why is this so wrong? It actually proves there is a physical illness, a part of the brain responsible for mood is smaller and shrinking in those with depression. After treatment, the brain cells begin to regenerate! How is this any different that a cholesterol-lowering or blood-pressure lowering med, or insulin to regulate diabetes. Mentall illness is nothing more than a physical illness with psychological symptoms. So, in my opinion, is addiction. A physical, brain illness, with psychological symptoms, obession, craving, impulse control, along with compulsive behavior. Just my thoughts.

Take care,
KEW
 
Can I be in "recovery" while taking Suboxone?

hey i totally relate, i have been in and out of rehabs for six years and have been abusing heroin for 10.i was almost 1 year clean until june 2010 when my brother who was also my best friend was murdered ,this fucked me up , i turned to alcohol and then back to the opiates i was in a place that i thought i had left behind,active addiction ,i was quickly losing everything, my family and my girlfriend who i love alot.my suboxone dosages were upped and i was put on epilim and some hectic tranquilisers.none of it kept me clean ,i eventually had to take the last money i had saved in my clean time and book myself into treatment for 21 days ...needless to say i am on a suboxone programe now and alot of my fellows at N.A say i'm not really clean,but alot say i am,,and most importantly i know i am clean,just like in the N.A prearable it says something like "in years gone by, very few addicts ever had this last choice. Those who are addicted today are more fortunate. For the first time in man
 
:angel:Hi, I understand exactly how you feel. To me, the important factor is how they work for you. I've been on Suboxone for 3 yrs. for pain, and hydrocodone user. I have never been back on other pain killers, since I started Suboxone. Yes, you can go through recovery while taking suboxone. You are the only judgement that counts. For some people going cold turkey is not an option. Its not about who can change by mind over matter. Its your whole profile as a person. Are you prone to have an addictive personality, obsessive/compulsive disorder, ect. You need to just have a good ear and if suboxone is working, go for it. For me and my experience, I have 3 girls 11, and twin 5yr.olRAB, and if it takes suboxone every year in order to play, run, swimming, ect. with my girls. I'm doing what the doctor ordered.

I was the one who educated my doctor about suboxone and asked him, please prescribe it for me. He consult with my out of town doctors and found it was a safer long term medicine than all the other pain killers. Plus, NO WITHDRAWALS. And it works great for my back and nerve chronic pain that I have. For me Suboxone was a God sent medicine!!!!

DON'T GIVE UP!!! WHO KNOWS YOU BETTER, THAN YOURSELF?

GOOD LUCK:angel::angel::angel:
 
Iain,
Glad to hear your college enrollment day went well...yes, take it slow on the relationship front. Good to be frienRAB for awhile first while you are healing from your latest heartbreak, you have good insight. I hear ya, can I send my brain o'er to Scotland for a respite, maybe a few months or so? I can't get out of my damn brain and the thoughts just keep going, going, going.....we just had a tragedy in my small town and a police officer I knew, only 32 years old, was shot to death in the back. So sad....what is life all about, why do these bad things happen to good people? Sometimes I wish it was me who was dead but then I think of all of the good things and wonderful people in my life, you two included!, and think about what a selfish person I am to have those thoughts. Look at this young man who just died in the line of duty and the people that are grieving for him and whose lives will now never be the same. Every day they will have that hole inside because of their loss of a loved one. I can never do that to anyone I love, I just want the pain to go away. Why is psychic pain so awful? I would rather suffer any kind of physical, excruciating, pain than to have this emotional, psychic hell to live in....and for what reason? It just comes up from out of nowhere and attacks, leaving emptiness and a kick in the gut. I best start meditating soon, these negative thoughts and feelings are going to take over if I don't start turning stuff around!
You keep on the good work of going to school and working your recovery! I would love to have a cup of coffee and listen to you rant on and on but for now I'll have to settle for cyber cafe and typing...I'm still listening though. You're a good friend, Iain. Keep on keeping on and I'll be in touch.

karen
 
Heh Karen it`s only me Iain here am really sorry i`ve nae been in touch for a wee while been crazy busy with college homework feels like am back at school but it`s great.
Just wanted to keep in touch hope you are well and keeping alright, i started going out with a girl (so much for taking things slowly) This is no word of a lie she looks like Alesha Keys only much much prettier, anyway enough soppy love struck talk fae me, i`ve just noticed i hope you can understand how i write these messages cause i tend to write like i talk, quick lesson;fae-from. nae-no.fit-what. so fit-like means what like or how you doin. Right am off cause i can sense am starting to write a load of crazyness. Take care. Iain.
 
Yo my pals, ILB & Iain,
You both are so awesome, like best frienRAB, really. How on earth could the three of us, probably so different in so many ways, be so alike in so many ways and not even know eachother? Well, I believe we do know eachother, intimately. We probably know so much about eachother because deep down we're so much alike with our addictions, emotions, coping skills, senses of humor....I just want to call you both up and go to lunch together! I'm sure we'd have a blast! When I went to in-patient rehab 5 yrs. ago, I found the same thing. The people I was least likely to ever have been frienRAB with in 'real' life, were the people I just loved and felt like I really knew and they knew me. They were and some still are awesome frienRAB of mine. Most of us have relapsed and a few have died. I don't want to go that route.
Thanks to you both for the best advice and the most encouraging statements I could hope to hear. I've really been struggling with either a recurrence of a major depression or simply post acute withdrawal symptoms which for me, manifest mostly in depression & anxiety. I've felt kind of depersonalized or that, what they describe as "derealization", like I'm not really here in reality and I can't seem to connect thoughts or focus on conversations well. I really feel like my brain is in more of a fried state than it was when I was taking drugs....well, I suppose the healing has to start somewhere.
I saw an intense movie last weekend called, "CANDY", it was with Heath Ledger, an Australian film and about two lovers who were heroin addicts. It was a bit of a trigger but a really great flick and I've not been able to stop thinking about it. It was kind of a good reality check as they sure did not live the happy, glam life...it was pretty sad but perhaps you both have seen it? Let me know. I think lots about you both and wish for the best for you and hope you are doing well. Take care my frienRAB!

kew
 
Heh Kim just sending ye a wee message tae say HELLO i can`t talk long am in college just now but i`ll be in touch.:rolleyes:
 
Hi
Well two weeks tomorrow since I changed from suboxone to subutex and a higher dose. I cannot believe the difference. I feel almost normal. All the really heavy cravings have gone. Just the thoughts still linger but I can deal with those.:) If anyone says that suboxone and subutex are the same I beg to differ. I apparently am one of the few who cannot tolerate the suboxone so well. Gone nausea, gone headaches I just feel soooo much better. I know the higher dose is also helping but seriously there is a big difference for me. Hey Kew what you up to? Hope you going okay. I'm coming up to 10 weeks since I made the decision to stop using and go on the sub program. Right now I can honestly say it is one of the best decisions I have ever made and I have made a few of those over the past 35 years or so. I know I will some day have to face the battle to get off them but for now they have literraly saved my life. From where I was 10 weeks ago to now is a miracle. The only thing that really gets to me is having to front up to a chemist everyday to get them. But for now it beats having to doctor surf or worse:( If I were to add up the amount of time I spent searching for and getting drugs I reckon I spend less time going for my daily dosing. It is just hard fitting it in with working fulltime. But hey at least I still have my job cause I came so close to losng it and at 48 its not easy to find a good job like the one I have especially if you end up losing it because of addiction. Good luck everyone and stay strong.
ILB
 
Heh my name is Iain i currently live in Glasgow, i`ve just recently finished with my own detox off methadone 2 months ago and found the same thing when attending n.a that i was`nt clean which started me thinking why i`m even bothering. At that time i chose not to listen to the people who were saying this and focus on the people who give positive feed back about what you are doing.
In answer to your original question only you have the answer is suboxone working for you? Is your life more stable now you are on it? These are all questions only you can answer, but you`ve taken the first step towarRAB recovery by recodnising you had a problem in the first place so you are definatly on the right path it`s juct about how far along the path you wish to go.
Remeraber no one ever said it would be easy, but if you think about it did anyone with any real knowlege ever say it would be hard?
What i did through my own detox was remain positive no matter what and focus on the end result completely substance free which in turn will set you free in life sounRAB like i`m a bit of a hippy which i`m not well maybe at heart.
Joking apart it does get easier and life does get better.
Always remeraber WHAT WE FEAR MOST DOES NOT HAVE A HOLD ON US, IT`S THE FEAR ITSELF THAT HOLRAB US BACK, You can do it, GOOD LUCK. Iain.
 
Hi Iain
Tks for the reply. I like the way you look at things. Staying mellow sounRAB much better than the chaois I have been living in thats for sure. Its New Years Eve hear in Aussie land. I have to work which kind of sux. Happy New Year to you and I pray your 2012 will be full of good blessings and growth.
Tks
Kim
ILB
 
I hear you all. I am at the three month mark and struggling to stay with the program because of its restrictions where I live. I had to go off the suboxone and on to subutex because I was one of the rare ones that cannot take the suboxone. I am currently on 5.2mgs and it still knocks me about two hours after taking it for about 2 hrs. I am tired physically and emotionally it has been a long three months. I keep trying to remind myself of what it was like prior to going on this drug. When I do remeraber I was tired all the time and in and out of withdrawal all the time and generally felt crap. I think I am just wanting to get well so bad that I am rushing it. This is the first time in my life that I feel I have a chance at beating this affliction and it is because of the subutex giving me the breathing space to step back and take stock of my life and what neeRAB repairing. I just wish I could get over the side effects. I think they are related to the anti depressant I am on and I am trying to reduce this but as I have been on it for 30 years my body is saying "what the hell are you doing?" It is hard trying to work full time in a demanding job manage side effects, look after my recently widowed mum, try and maintain a failing relationship with my husband of 28 years and do phycotherapy to try sort out the reasons I use it can be exhausting. Add to that the fact that I have to go and pick up my meRAB everyday and I have started thinking maybe I can do it without them and make things easier. But deep down I know I will relapse. So thanks for the worRAB of wisdom I needed to hear this right now. I guess it is only early days for me only been 12 weeks since I was heavily using and about to lose my job and my family so even though things are a bit rough at the moment they are way better than they were 12 weeks ago.
 
:)derstand where you are at mate. Some days are a struggle. I try and look at those days as days I need to be nice to myself. We are very good at beating ourselves up. It takes time and at times hard work to change thinking patterns. I was going great guns feeling better than I have in years. Went to bed and dreamed all night about using(think it was the intervention show I watched before bed;)) I woke up hanging out wanting to use and the whole day I fought my thoughts. the suboxone takes away the physical stuff but the battle still exists in your mind. I too miss the "High" that feeling of "Oh Yeah!" You go through a grieving period where you need to come to terms with not using and say goodbye. Everyone is different but it truely is grieving like losing a close very close friend. This is especially true if you have used it to deal with emotional pain. I love riding my bike so when I am feeling strung out and my thoughts are winning I take a ride and get a natural high (probably the adrenaline rush from trying to stay alive avoiding all the idiots on the road:mad:) Or going to the beach and feeling the ocean breeze. You need to find something that gives you a good feeling and use it to replace the opiates. One day at a time and sometimes one monute at a time. It is worth it in the lon run to regain your life back. The mind has a way of letting you forget how stuffed your life was living from one high to the next. I find that sometimes I start thinking about using because I have so much more time to think than before. Before my head was always full of where or how can I get my next fix and what if I cant get it? what if I start getting sick? what if someone finRAB out and I lose my job? I would rather have the odd bad day than to go back to living in hell again for a small time of feeling "Good." You are right about looking inward. Its learning how to forgive yourself and letting go of the past. Sorry if I getting all serious like just want to share some of what I have learnt in the hopes of helping someone. One things for sure I am so glad to find and talk with others who understand. :) take care
;)
 
Hi Simon143
Well done you. It sounRAB like you have had one hell of a battle and are now getting on top of things again. Dont listen to anyone who says you are not clean. Suboxone program is about recovery and lessening the risk taking behaviours that are associated with our addictions. You are most definetly in recovery and one day you may be able to get off the subs too. But dont rush it only you will know when you are ready. Right now what is important is learning new ways of dealing with the trauma in our lives both past and present. Being on the subs gives you the breathing space to be able to do this. Rather than running from the pain facing up to it and walking through it till you reach freedom and acceptance on the other side. Its not easy but it beats trying to deal with all this crap and an addiction as well.
The New Year will be a much better one if you choose it to be.
take care
ILB
 
hey Kim,
Haven't heard from you in awhile. I hope things are ok. Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and sending good, healing thoughts your way. Hope all is good to you in the New Year! Take care,

Karen
 
Hi Missy,
I think I started the thread a bit over a year ago, as I began the Subutex in May of '09. I know it's so sad about drug use these days. I was a goody goody kid and never had trouble until I took my first percocet in my mid 30's. That was it for me. I'm convinced I have a genetic predisposition to opiate abuse and my body reacts very differently to opiates than most people's. I get tons of energy, euphoric, feel great and just want MORE. So, now that I know that, I can work on staying clean and sober and getting off of the Sub. It's really been a life saver for me though. I don't think I could have stopped without it. Hope you are welll. Take care,

Karen
 
Hi Kew
Wow thats a big step. I understand where you are coming from but. thats why I have tried to keep the dose down to the minimum I am comfortable at. I still feel really tired after about 2 hrs of taking dose. I am really hoping they are going to start giving me take away does soon. This would be the main reason for me not staying on the program here as it is so restrictive. I was going to ride down to the Moto GP at Phillip Island Australia. Unfortunately it is just going to be too difficult to pick up does along the way. We have modified the trip so can ride some of the way and fly the rest. The problem here is that each state has its own guidelines and rules for dosing. Each time I cross over into another state I have re register with that state. Pretty crazy! I am giving our new itinerary to my caseworker to see how it can be arranged. This will be in October. Weather been good here so riding to work most days and some extra fun rides on days off. The dosong restrictions really stops me from doing anything that is more than a few hours away. I agree with the fair weather riding I am much the same. can do it but do not enjoy it at all. I am loving my new bike so much:) I have just ordered some parts from the us for it to jazz it up a bit. I talk to my kiRAB about addiction also. They are much older my youngest being 21. My 28 year old has had addiction issues too and it nearly took his life last year. Its good to share with them about their childhood and help them understand why I was the way I was and also to help them understand why they have some of the issues they do. For me its finding the balance of sharing and then not feeling guilty about how it has affected them when they share back. They are both great young people who have through adversity pushed through and become stronger for it. My daughter took the step yesterday and had herself banned from places where she can garable. I'm so proud of her it was very hard and hurabling for her. I explained to her that it too is addictive behaviour and she neeRAB help to stay away from it. As for the aching bones mate i'm afraid thats age related;) I played alot of sport in my early years and I am sure paying for it now. Go slow with the reduction. It can take a good 48 hrs before you start feeling the effects of a reduction in the sub. I learnt that last week when I accidently missed a dose forgetting the chemist closed early on a sunday. 48 hrs until I could get my next does and I was starting to feel pretty uncomfortable. Wont do that again. It took us a long time to get to where we are now so it is worth the time to slowly get ourselves well and off the meRAB. Dont rush it nice and easy. Take care and ride safe.
ILB
 
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