Can I be in "recovery" while taking Suboxone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kewood
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Hi Jenna,
I know it can be a difficult struggle questioning if we're doing the right thing, if we should be trying to go off the suboxone/subutex or if it's truly helping us. I did mean what I said in that I couldn't have gotten off of the Norco if it weren't for the Suboxone. I believe that is how I got clean and for now it's how I am staying "clean". whether I am truly "clean" or not, I don't care anymore. I've stopped analyzing that and worrying about it. It doesn't help my recovery to focus on whether it's right or wrong to be on an opiate substitute. I'm on it, I'm not on other painkillers and I'm not out of control in my life right now. I'm sure not at the happiest and best place I've ever been but there is still alot of healing to take place. I would suggest you stop worrying about if and when you're getting off of the sub. I've now been on it for 15 months and have gone from 16mg to 12mg but feel like I need to stay here for awhile until I stable out and start feeling less depressed and more like myself again. I've been going through some other medication changes, switching from one anti-depressant to a newer one which very well may be why I feel kind of funky and sad all the time. Try to look at what the positive things in your life are. You're no longer addicted to opiates, right? Is your life more in control? Are you working a recovery program of some sort? Do you feel better now than you did when you were using? If you can answer yes, I believe you are on the right path.....we will deal with coming off of our suboxone/subutex when it is time and I now trust that I will know when it is time. Take care!

Karen
 
kew: The answer is "yes" your are in recovery even if you are taking one drug molecule to break an addiction to another; provided you are doing it under medical supervision and you are following the doctors' advice and not trying out your own home chemical remedies. I manned the phones at the AA South Bay Central Office in Los Angeles for years and continually received calls asking that same question. It came up because some cult AA groups were telling their merabers that sobriety required the avoidance of any drug whatsoever, even Asprin. I recall particularly one young man who had just been released from jail on the condition that he continue counselling for his bipolar disorder and took the medications prescribed upon his release. He called crying his soul out because he had just returned from of his first AA meeting after being released from jail and had been actually shunned by the group because he told them he was on a medication regimen for his bipolar conditiona and they informed him that he was not "working the program". He asked me if they were right. I replied without a pause that the people at the meeting were both wrong and dangerous. It is NOT the AA policy to avoid legitimate drug therapy. The next morning I called the AA office in New york to confirm that AA does not discourage the use of legitimate medically treatment while one is pursuing sobriety.

I would not waste my time Googling every drug in the world trying to figure out which is the best for me. Since you have access to a good shrink follow his or her advice. And since psychotropic drugs work diffeently on different people, let him know immediately if something doesn't seem right such as sudden sleep difficulty, clinical depression, strange nightmares or suicidal thoughts, no matter how "slight", that you have never had before. And watch out for drug interactions. I've discovered that even the "best" shrinks aren't very knowledgeable
in that area. Always maintain a current list of every drug you are taking, the generic and brand name, the mg of each pill or capsule and the prescribed daily dosages. Also include any over the counter medications such as low-dose aspirin therapy, stool softeners, anti-histamines and topical skin creams. Every time there is a change in your prescriptions, update the list, give one to your doctor for your file, and then take your list to a pharmacist at a large volume drug store and ask him or her to look it over for adverse drug interactions. Pharmacists are the experts on drug interactions, not doctors.

Good luck to you. Damn the bizarre advice of people who have no stake in your life and do what your doctors tell you to do.
 
Heh there always good tae hear fae ye, I don`t really have much to say today except please stay strong and talk to someone face to face if you ever contemplate suicide ever again or if you feel more comfortable you can always talk to me.
Suicide as am sure you now realise is the easy option, in the past iused to wake up in the morning the first thing i used to think about was how am i going to get some peace of mind from my mental pain at the start drugs were the easy option it then progressed onto death being a much more final solution because it had become such a hassle to score drugs on a daily basis, and was getting tiresome.
Many many times i found myself praying to God to let me die, The big man had other idea`s for me and did`nt grant me those prayers which at the time i resented him for but am now grateful.
Anyway i`ve rabbled on a fair bit, start writing and end up going off on one.
Stay Strong,Stay Positive, and Be Cool.:cool:
 
Hi Kewood
I know what you mean about the bike. I just purchased a Suzuki Boulevard M90 1500. Man I get high everytime I ride that thing. It is a great destresser;) I'm glad to hear you feeling more positive. Its hard at times I have been struggling myself the last few days. I wish I could figure out an addicts brain I would be a millionaire. You would think after all that we have put ourselves through and the pain and anguish it causes, you would never even think about doing it again.:confused: I have decided I need to up my dose of sub. From what I have been reading from other peoples experiences if your dose is right you dont crave anymore. Well I definetly am still having cravings. I dont know how they run the program in your part of the world but here in australia where I live you have to have supewrvised dosing for three months before they will consider you for take away doses which you can then only get four days worth at a time. I have six weeks to go, and at times I have felt like tossing it all in. Trying to fit in work (I am a shift worker) with collecting my dose whcih if I dont get it on time or within 2 hours of when it is due, I start having withdrawals, is proving to be very stressful. But at the end of my shift when I hop on my M90 I feel the stress leaving. I really do want to make it this time so I guess that has to count for something. My children have grown up now and I am still rebuilding a relationship with them after years of addiction nearly destroyed them as well as me. It takes time but sure is worth it. I love them so much and they are the main driving force behind me pushing on. Happy and safe riding take care
Ilovebikes:wave:
 
Heh ILB how`s life treating you two hope your life and your program are working for you so far remeraber it`s nae a sprint recovery is all about the marathon so easy does it. I don`t know what you and your husband do with regarRAB to hobbies or activities but i would suggest finding something you enjoy doing outside your work or whatever cause constantly working and doing nothing else can end up making life seem like a bore and not worth taking part in.
I started rockclirabing and play football 2 or 3 times a week if nothing else it makes the task of recovery more enjoyable and i believe you must try and enjoy your recovery because it makes it a lot easier in the long run.
Take Care. Iain.
 
Believe it sister! you are who you are because thats who you are:dizzy:a wee bit confussing but i believe to be true. Au Revior!
 
Hi Iain,
I hear you about "life on life's terms". It gets me so mad because I often dislike life's terms as well and want things on MY terms. I know sometimes I get really annoyed at the little AA sayings and ditty's like "one day at a time", "life on life's terms", "let go", etc. but it's only because they are true! I don't like to admit that I don't have control over almost anything in life and I struggle against those things which only makes life harder for me. I do just need to let go and accept life on life's terms whether I like it or not, that's just HOW IT IS! Maybe when I can learn to do that, I will find life is a bit easier and I'm a bit happier? It's possible I guess. I will try this week to see if I can just accept life on life's terms without the fighting and struggling and see how it impacts my life, day to day. Will get back to you on that. Thanks for the kind thoughts, Iain. Hope you have a great week!

KEW
 
Hi Kewood,

I've read several of your posts and it seems you've struggled with opiate addiction in one form or another for quite some time now. I was an intravenous heroin and cocaine user for almost twelve years, and one thing I learned was that substituting one thing for another never worked for me. I never went to rehab, never did any of that; when I was FINALLY ready in my LIFE to be done with using, I eliminated all drug dealer nurabers from my phone, threw away all OCs in the house, and locked myself up for a week with a ton of food in the fridge so I didn't have to go out. The thing about addiction is that while support CAN be helpful for some people, the ultimate decision to be done with them has to come from inside of YOU. You have to be in a place in your life where you're no longer willing to be a slave to the drugs. These health boarRAB have been IMMENSELY helpful with other issues I've had, and you can indeed find all the support you need to quit right here, but I don't believe using one thing to wean yourself off of another thing does anything at all except create another addiction. When I got off the needle, I never felt more physically horrible in all my life. I wanted to die in that house for about five days, but I thought of what a life without addiction would be like the whole time, and it spurned me on. You WILL be sick. There's NO way to beat an opiate addiction without bearing the consequences. Cold turkey is the ONLY way to go, in my opinion, but you have to have balls of solid rock and be willing to go the distance. The end result will be SO much better. I've gotten my health back, my family, my old frienRAB, and my old life. Are there days I still think about how good that needle and spoon would be? Damn right. It never goes completely away, but I think about it less and less as the years go by. I've replaced my addictions with a new will to live a better life, a new desire to find beauty in everything, and you will, too. We're here if you ever need to talk, my friend.
 
Hello Kew

I believe that the most important question to ask yourself is "do you feel like you are working in recovery?" How we work our way in recovery is just so personal and we each must find the way that works for us as an individual. While I did not choose the suboxone route, it does not mean my plan was better than yours. I did what worked for me. I believe AA and NA are both terrific programs, but do not believe they are the only way to sobriety. I do believe that an opiate is an opiate is an opiate, but sometimes we have to think outside the box for our own personal recovery.

What I see that is good about Suboxone is that it allows a drug abuser the time to get the thinking straight about addictive thinking patterns. If we do not personally believe that we can straighten out the thinking because the cravings prove too much, then Suboxone is a great tool to help us. The path we choose to find sobriety is not important... it is important that we believe that the path we coose is right for us.

I took nearly a year to taper first from Oxycodone and then from Xanax. I know that I became sober thinking long before my tapers ended. I worked hard with my doctors and with a clinical social worker to understand why I had crossed a line and began to abuse the drugs. The more I came to understand the reasons behind my issues, the more sober thinking I became. In my opinion, it is sober thinking that is the truest measure of being in recovery. So if you use the time on Suboxone to really work on sober thinking, so what? It surely is progress from the daily abuse of a drug used to get high.

I am sorry you are in such a tormented place right now. You need not be. There is no reason to feel defensive about your chosen path. As you work to gain sober thinking, the time will present itself when you fell ready to get off ther suboxone. Will it be hard? Probably. However, when we have sober thinking erabedded in our mind set, it will not be an impossible task.

I hope you are sharing your concerns with the psychiatrist. Perhaps, just perhaps, he might be able to form a group of Suboxone users to support one another. As Suboxone becomes more and more widely used, I really see a need for peer support groups to come to be. Might even be a calling for you to start one!

I hope you stick around and share with us as you move along. Stand tall in your decision to use Suboxone. It is a tool for you in your recovery. Always remeraber to work on the things that sober thinking encompasses. Develop a plan and work it!

Wishing you well
reach
 
Today I'm really struggling with just being me. I read this quote though and it seemed to help me feel a bit better. I wanted to share in case it helps anyone else. Take care all!

KEW

"The ancients are right: the dear old human experience is a singular, difficult, shadowed, brilliant experience that does not resolve into being comfortable in the world. The valley of the shadow is part of that, and you are depriving yourself if you do not experience what human kind has experienced, including doubt and sorrow. We experience pain and difficulty as failure instead of saying, I will pass through this, everyone I have ever admired has passed through this, music has come out of it, literature has come out of it. We should think of our humanity as a privilege.":angel: - Marilynne Robinson
 
Hi Karen
Sorry to hear you are still struggling with the depression. Sometimes it takes time my friend to stabilise. It seems like an eternity when you are going through it but it is really just a blink in time. It will get better I know because of your determination and willingness to get well you will. I have struggled with major depressive illness for over 35 years. There are times when you just dont seem to be able to see the light. Kind of like being at the bottom of a well and not being able to get out. You will. This helps me when I get a negative thought come into my mind I rephrase it with a positive one. For example "I feel like crap again today" change to Today i feel great and it is going to be a great day. Even if you dont feel like it. Depression feeRAB on feelings. If we live according to how we feel we will always be down the majority of the time. The battle we all face is not in the natural it is on our mind. If we can win the fight in there we wil win the fight.You are doing so amazingly well to get down to 4mgs of subutex. Not long ao you were taking 16mgs. Well Done! I did have my dose increased to 6mgs and I am way better as far as the cravings are concerned. I am also doing intensive therapy trying to deal with my past so I dont relapse in the future. Its not easy when you have spent 40 years runnig from feelings and believing that you are no good. Having to revisit the trauma of my childhood etc has been very challenging but I know when i get through it I will have the best chance of being free. I have alot of anger inside and repressed anger leaRAB to depression. I am gradually working through it but I am struggling to let it out in a safe way. I have a tendency to punch things like walls and last time I broke three bones in my hand. I did it again recently so no riding for me for the moment. Sometimes the rage is so intense I just dont know what to do with it. I used to take drugs to deaden it now its about finding ways to deal with it and let it go. /Thanks for sharing and caring.

Iain
Hi how you going. You sound like you are doing really well with the studying? Thankyou for taking the time in your busy schedule to chat and ask how we are going. I feel your positiveness all the way here in Australia and I love your wit(sense of humour) How is the social life going? All work and no play is not good for you ;) Keep up the good work my friend and;) keep those great worRAB of wisdom coming.
Take care
Kim
 
Hi
I was just reading back through some of the posts and found yours. Thanks for your post. It is encouraging to hear that others are having success with this drug. I was pretty sceptical at first and I had read alot of bad stuff but I am feeling more confident that I have made the right choice this time. I like the way you look at it as being a medication rather than a replacement. Well done it sounRAB like you are doing really well. Thanks to all the people who post on this site in a positive way I dont feel anywhere near as alone as I did.
ILB
 
Cliff notes? Hey just wanted to see how you are doing.

I will say I made a mistake staying on suboxone for longer than I had to (1 year) and it was just like I was addictied to OC. My advice is get on sub and taper off fast. Dont stay on longer than 1-2 months.
 
Heh Karen good tae hear fae ye, try not tae worry about yer anxiety attacks the more ye worry about them the more frequent they will occur, yer right all thats happening is that your emotionally defrosting after years of mental suppresion, it can all come back in waves some more severe than the rest. These are things am still trying to get back to how i used to feel emotionally before i started on that path of destruction that is the drugs. I don`t get to write as often as i`d like busy with college work at the moment. But anyway please take care and i`ll write again soon. Iain.:p
 
Hey guys,
It sounRAB like we've all been struggling a bit and I'm sorry that's the case. ILB, how do you keep yourself from sinking into the depression, self harm, etc. I have been doing the same and I think it's because I can't get negative thoughts out of my head....I keep thinking, "I'll always feel this way, things are never going to get better, I'll be an 80 year old lady and still struggling with this", etc. etc. It's just my natural way to think negatively and I want to turn it around, I just don't know how. I'm trying to corabat each negative thought or message with a positive one but it is just so hard. Why does it have to be so HARD to accept reality and live life on "life's terms"??? WHY? Why do some people do it so easily, with such grace and simple happiness? Why can't I be one of them? Now I'm wallowing in my own self-pity which just seems to keep the cycle of negativity fed & thriving.
Iain, when you said, "i end up thinking the chaos of my using life is more appealing, this is what i call magical thinking, and this is the way i`ve been thinking lately.", I can so relate to it! I want to have the ease of not thinking so much, of being in a fog, of not caring. Sobriety is HARD! I never knew it could be so hard just plugging along trying to accept the realities of life, deal with the feelings that I don't like to feel, the people in my life who seem to get by so easily. I know the reality is that using is not the answer, it's just a temporary fix which causes more problems in the long run. I have to keep encouraging myself to go on and stay sober and keep working on this. I know someday it will be worth it but it's just hard not knowing when that day will come. Will it be weeks, months, years....? How can I make it through all of the days in between? I guess that's why "one day at a time" has to be the way we look at it, right? We couldn't possibly survive if we thought of the work that lies ahead of us and got ourselves overwhelmed. Sometimes I feel as if I just freeze and can not do anything. It's like the overwhelming feelings, thoughts, emotions just get to a point that I don't know what to do so I don't do anything. I just want to sleep my life away sometimes.
I need to think positively, I need to be around people who can help me do that. I can relate about the trust thing, Iain. I have always had a very difficult time trusting people. I think it goes back to crap in my childhood but I am SO terrified of getting hurt that I don't trust and like you, keep people out of my life and therefore can get pretty lonely. Luckily I have a wonderful partner but I need to reach out more and begin to slowly know that it's ok to trust people. I bet that's why it's so great to have the two of you online here....I can trust you more easily because we don't really know one another but in another way, we are so similar I feel like I've known you both for my whole entire life! Well, I am just rarabling on now....I'd better get back to work. When I feel like quitting, I too think of you both working hard on your own struggles and recovery and it does give me strength to keep on keeping on. Take care both of you and my thoughts are with you!

KEW
 
Hey ILB!
Thanks for your post! I'm hanging in there. I halved my Subutex starting today, from
16mg to 8mg. I think 16mg is too high for me. I've been feeling really tired, low energy, joint pain, etc. Not sure it's from the Subutex but I can do fine on 8mg, I don't really even notice a difference. I did this once before but I think it was too soon. I've been on the sub for 14 mos. now and I am going to slowly, very very slowly try to taper to the lowest effective amount. I know that I need the meRAB that I'm on, I would just like to try to be on the lowest doses possible for my health. I think I need to change my eating habits too. I eat too much sugar and refined carbohydrates. I think that contributes to my feelings of lethargy and joint pain, or maybe it's just being 44 that contributes to it! Have you been riding much? I've been out a bit but lately we've had lots of rain so I tend to be a fair weather biker. Don't hate riding in the rain but it's not my first choice. I have the day off work with my 10 year old today and we're going to run some erranRAB then just hang out playing games this afternoon. She is such a wonderful kid, so bright and loving. I know my addiction has affected her in some ways I just am not quite sure exactly how yet. I talk to her about my problem and why I go to support groups and why I take meRAB. I want to be honest with her in an age-appropriate way so she never feels like this big secret is in our family and it's not ok to talk about it. I'm a lucky woman to have her in my life! Take care, stay safe!

KEW
 
Like you said Kew, i get a great deal of strength from reading similar stories as well sounRAB silly you get strength from hearing about other peoples misery but it`s more to do with the fact you don`t feel alone it`s even more amazing talking to frienRAB at opposite enRAB of the earth,
anyway i`ve nothing new to report, still battling my demons and searching for some angels.
Always living in hope:wave:
 
ILB,
I hear ya about understanding the addict brain...talk about cunning, baffling & powerful, I can't begin to understand how my brain works when it comes to opiates...they just have such a hold on me, or they used to have such a hold on me and though I still struggle with thoughts, cravings & desire, I can and will keep on this path of recovery. It really is one day or hour or minute at a time isn't it? I can't imagine having to get my suboxone dose every day! I'm lucky and see my psych doc every month and he gives me a month's worth of Subutex. I don't ever want to take more than is prescribed because I really feel nothing from it, it just stops the w/d's which I appreciate! I know it does help with the cravings too and all of my cravings are purely psychological rather than physical. But, my brain is pretty powerful and man those psychological cravings and memories, or even perceived memories can really get me sometimes. I start telling myself how great it was and as soon as I start thinking that way, the battle has begun. If I don't immediately turn my thinking around, I can get into a real crazy-making place. That's when it's good to take a walk or a ride, get some air, clear my head and STOP THINKING! Sometimes I wish I could take a pill that would simply stop my brain from working so I could get some rest up there. Wonder how our brains became the way they are or perhaps we were just born with the addict brain? Well, take care and hope you start feeling better. It does sound like you might need a higher dose of the Sub and hopefully your doc will agree. Keep the rubber to the road! Talk to you soon!

KEW
 
Hi Iain & Kim & welcome Simon,

Hope everyone had a nice holiday and the new year is starting off ok for you all. We had a rough go of it, suddenly and unexpectedly, my dad died of a massive stroke on Dec. 17th. I had left my job on Dec. 13th. I headed back to NY for the funeral and arrived back home in AK on XMas eve...it has been a whirlwind and my grief has been so severe and overpowering along with the panic and anxiety I had been having about my job and everything else, it's really thrown me into quite a state. I am trying to just cry it all out and process my grief as it comes which seems to be all the time, I'm seeing my counselor, my psych doc and the new guy I found who does the Somatic Experience...he has been so helpful. I guess it's a good thing I left my job, I can't imagine trying to function at work during all this.

We also found that our little dog who had already had 1 eye removed from Glaucoma now has it in his remaining eye and is in quite a bit of pain. The eyedrops we're using aren't working to reduce the pressure so we're under pressure to make a quick decision to have his other eye taken out or put him down. I just don't know what to do, I don't feel like I can survive another loss but I'm not sure how he would do blind, though he can't see through the eye right now and seems to be doing ok. So sorry guys to go rarabling on like this but I can't help it. When I was back in NY and saw my dad on life support and said good bye, the first think I thought of was "I have to get some opiates to get through this".....but, I didn't and I thought of my dad and what he would want me to do and I will not go back there.

I am still on the 4mgs of Subutex and my doc gave me some Klonopin as my anxiety is so through the roof and now I'm afraid I will become addicted to the Klonopin but I can't function without it right now....I'm a mess, I'm scared, I'm lonely even when people are around me, I miss my dad, I can't bear to look at my little dog in pain and I just want to die....I don't know how I can make it through this...please help my frienRAB.

Karen
 
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