Burzum

Further proof that we're either long lost brothers or psychically linked. You have summed my exact thoughts on Varg and Burzum. It's because of him that Black Metal has the bad history that it does. It doesn't matter how popular more intelligent black metal banRAB like Cobalt and Deathspell Omega get, they're always going to take a backseat in the mind of the public because of the controversy that follows Varg Vikernes and that small part of the music scene.
 
Well, the point wasn't that listening to Burzum makes you a racist, but it does make you support Vikernes who is a murderous, racist bastard. If his music conveys his racist views and you dig it and help popularize it, then I'd say yeah - you're supporting that message by appreciating the way it is presented and by supporting him which in turn helps him produce more, but honestly I don't know whether or not his music is racist or not.

I don't wanna support the guy on any level - money, message or whatever - so I don't listen to it.
 
You can go through life buying albums and you don't know what label they're on so you don't know who you're supporting. Maybe you do know the label, but you don't know the people who work there and you don't know the pockets where the money end up. As a consumer, it can be hard to know what happens to all the money you spend somewhere down the line. It doesn't have to be music, maybe that brand of coffee you like don't pay their south-american workers very much or maybe that meat company's transport of animals is not as it should be.

You can't expect anyone in modern society to have a complete knowledge of how they affect the world they live in. None of us have those magical powers of observation and insight that let's us do stuff like that. A trickle of the money spent on a product goes here, another one goes there - keeping tabs on all is not just impractical, it's near impossible. As a result, you shouldn't expect everyone to have a moral dilemma every time they wanna spend money on something that could mean a penny goes to something they think is immoral.

However, you are well and truly a sad person if you think that means that having a sense of morale guiding you in a consumerist market is completely futile. Depending on who you are and what your morals are like, you can still have cases which are a little more clear cut. I believe most people in the western world would not buy whale meat for example because aside from every other uncertainty, at least they know that buying whale meat supports whaling. Similarly, even if you don't know if some of the pennies spent on Britney's latest might go to people who exploit the poor in Africa, at least you can be resonably sure that if you spend money on Varg's latest album, that's money in his pocket. He's not supported by a major label, they've stayed away since the murder.

I don't act on every inkling that my money might not support something good, but when I do know what the money goes to, I try to be an aware consumer. For example I don't buy meat from industries which burn down the amazonian rainforest. The power of being able to choose what to spend money on is the tiny bit of control we consumers have on the market.

I'm aware that my limited powers of observation keeps me from keeping tabs on where every penny I spend end up, but I don't believe that itself makes it futile to try and be an aware consumer.


That's it really, but I'll just add that undoubtedly, our moral standarRAB are not the same. I have a lot of opinions on morale and principles I try to follow. For example, I don't believe society should reward murderers and while indeed varg has been in prison, his fame would never have been the same without the notoriety. His standing in the market and the black metal scene - the power of his legacy - doesn't come from the backing of big labels. It comes from us, the consumers.

I'm not really concerned about what conclusions you wanna draw from that. I've made up my mind about it and that's that for me. But even if I don't need people to agree, at least I think it's something people should be aware of. Like, think about it once or twice in your life.
 
What if I want the money in Varg's pocket? The money will be a motivation for him to make more music, and more of his music will make me a happier person. Let's say that you like a band, but you know that the band merabers spend all the money on drugs and at the same time you know that Paris Hilton would spend her money on building orphanages and hospitals, whose album would you rather buy, the album of the band you like or Paris Hilton's? The bottomline is: Varg is a good musician and if the money he earns selling his music will allow him to make more music, I will buy the album regardless of him being a racist and a murderer.
 
On the first point, he stated as such in an interview.

It seems Norway is letting him have the same conditions he had prior to the car hijacking, so I'd expect him to have guitars on this new album.
 
they don't when they are incomprehensibly screamed in a language you don't understand

not to mention they are far from overtly racist - if even at all - which i do not recall. at least for the albums i have read the lyrics for. mostly about castles and forests and ****.
 
I read a book about a year ago entitled LorRAB of Chaos. It was all about the origins and influences of the Satanic/Black Metal underground music scene. A lot of it, of course dealt with the murder of Euronymous. Lots of interviews with Vikernes, of course. If you read the book, you'll find that he's the kind of guy that changes his story a lot. He strikes me as a pretty boy that was good at manipulation and self-righteous beyond the point of conscience. The happenings in the scene after his crimes was typical for idiot youth in countries with no death penalty who want to get noticed at whatever cost.

As far as his music is concerned, I've never listened to it. What annoys me most about his presence is the racism aspect. The churches, I could give a fuck about. The murder was also something that was fucking ridiculous.
 
Your trying to make a very eloquent argument, but let's face it, Varg was a dogmatic ideologue who created propaganda music to entice radical youths to incite violence and terror on innocent victims. Record companies are simply looking to make a buck, at the same time employing thousanRAB of people while helping to expand and protect the music marketplace. When comparing the two, I'd say the capitalist is by far the lesser evil.
 
I find it strange that you seem to think it's wrong to listen to / appreciate Varg yet you also think people should have the freedom to do so. Personally I'd say what's immoral is actually buying into racist ideology, not simply giving money to someone who is a racist for reasons unrelated to their ideology. Making it possible for an extremist to have a speaking platform does not make you directly responsible for any idiocy on the part of other people who fall for the extremist's message.

That idiocy typically results from ignorance anyway, and the best way to fight ignorance is not censorship but open discussion of all points of view surrounding a topic. It's the same reason we don't believe in systematically wiretapping people and randomly searching their belongings just to prevent a few extra terrorist attacks. Therefore I think your concern over "funding Varg's activities", whatever they may be (if anything), is rather misguided.
 
Agreed. Even if you hate the guy, he helped shape black metal into what it is today. The way he fused arabient music with black metal was incredible. I think his character and actions are completely irrelevant to his musical talent
 
I already told you I believe in the freedom of speech and choice. However, you seem to think that if you have freedom of speech, you have to support every person who uses it, regardless of the opinion they voice. Maybe respecting the freedom to be a racist while not supporting racism is too much of a contradiction in your mind, but it's not in mine. I like freedom and I think it's important to society - but that doesn't mean I like how everyone uses it.

Do you support artists and people you don't like?
 
I've found more enjoyment in viewing Burzum's lyrics as an unintentional parody of Tolkien. I'm looking forward to the new album.
 
Have read it multiple times in different places. Pretty sure one of them was an interview with Vikernes.




Isn't he out of prison completely now?
 
Two good points there. There were definite cultural/ideological motivation in Burzum's work, primarily in purging any rock n roll elements from the music because the Norse viewed metal as a form if Western cultural imperialism. What makes Varg so insidious is the murder of Euronymous was completely premeditated and probably wouldn't have been carried out if Norway had the death penalty.
 
Have you ever heard any of the Burzum songs or you're just making this crap up on the spot? This couldn't be any more untrue than it already is.
 
that artwork is pitiful, it looks like some crappy point-and-shoot photo someone took and slapped some crappy font on in photoshop. i hope its a placeholder.
 
In Norway, it's not uncommon for prisoners who have to do a lot of time that they get some kind of freedom from prison, like freedom to have a job out there in society or freedom to attend school. I think they still have to stay in the prison outside of working/studying hours.

And I think that's the deal he's got.
 
A pox on your country and it's progressive ways! Seriously, the nerve to treat prisoners like human beings and try to integrate them back into society through more positive means.
 
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