You steal a camera during MY Workshop? Fuck you, you piece of messed-up shit !

Want to see my transcripts?

Believe it or not, just because somebody smokes pot doesn't mean they can't be be a good student, and I was.
 
And because he was a "good student" by the standards of his school, this logically means that pot does not impair one's motor skills or cognitive abilities, right?

Somehow I doubt that any of those A's were specifically awarded for critical thinking skills.
 
Malthus said:
Diogenes the Cynic said:
Stoned people cause slightly fewer accidents than people on no drugs at all. They aren't just safer than drunks, they're marginally safer than people who aren't on anything.
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Again, that's the result of selection. It isn't that smoking any amount of pot makes the average person a better driver - it is that smoking a small amount makes the average person compensate (or even over-compensate), and smoking a larger amount makes the average person decide not to drive. It's the effect of stoner paranoia.

Anecdotally, when I was a reckless and stupid teen, I'd occasionally drive when slightly stoned. I used to hate it, exactly because of this - I was so goddam paranoid I'd screw up because I was stoned, I'd drive like my granny, hating it all the while.

Take any stoned person and *make them drive* no matter how stoned they are, and those who are more than moderately stoned would no longer be able to compensate for their undoubted impairment and you'd get more accidents - but in real life, such people are far more likely to choose not to drive.
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This is a fair point. Stoners, unlike drunks, tend to err on the side of caution and self-regulate, but I would still maintain that exeprienced, chronic stoners never really get that intensely high anyway. At my most hardcore, even the best stuff would not really get me hardcore stoned for more than 15 or 20 minutes, then it would level off to the normal, low-level haze that was my normal setting for pretty much all of my 20's and part of my 30's. It's actually on of the reaosns I stopped. It just wasn't working for me anymore. I was smoking like a chimney and barely getting buzzed, even with really good bud.
 
Cartooniverse said:
One
...show up smoked up to face the intensity and complex physical work of the 2nd day of the Workshop??
...
We get to work, work hard all day

And two:
This item [camera] was not a part of the training, it sat there stuck to the wall in the showroom.
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It's only idle curiosity on my pary, but (one) what kind of workshop was this and (two) what was the camera there for?
 
lieu said:
Diogenes the Cynic said:
Stoned people cause slightly fewer accidents than people on no drugs at all. They aren't just safer than drunks, they're marginally safer than people who aren't on anything.
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Predictively we want our safest drivers in charge of shuttling kids. Should we insist then that school bus drivers toke up before starting their route?
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Of course not. I'm not a fascist. People should not be forced to smoke if they don't want to. Nor should they be forbidden. I'm completely libertarian on the issue. That dude on the Simpsons seems to function just fine.
 
Diogenes the Cynic said:
The effects of chronic alcohol abuse are much, much, MUCH worse than for chronic chronic use. Pot doesn't pickle your brain and destroy your liver.
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Nope but it may cause or worsen mental illness (my own persoanl experience is that I have met more stoners in the psych ward than out)

Lots of cites here if you would care to look:
http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=link+between+marijuana+and+mental+illness&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
 
Diogenes the Cynic said:
Anyone who's actually been a chronic stoner or been around them knows that being stoned has no more effect on their driving ability than a cup of coffee.
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:dubious:






magellan01 said:
Pot can and does definitely inhibit performance.
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Damuri Ajashi said:
I've definitely been too stoned to think.
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pulykamell said:
You definitely would not want to be with me in a car if I were high. The one time I drove stoned--just to back the car out of the driveway to let someone out--I had to ask someone else to finish doing it, because I just did not have the spatial awareness to accomplish the task.
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Fuji said:
I have plenty of past experience with cannabis and with driving, and I never had an accident while driving stoned.

On the other hand, I also know that, in my experience, smoking weed certainly did impair my ability to drive a car.
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Inigo Montoya said:
Ok, my post as my cite. From my limited use of medical grade pot:
Hit #1: nothing
Hit #2: buzzed, a little dizzy
Hit #3: high, I really like colored lights, have to concentrate in order to walk, I won't remember this tomorrow
Hit #4: Fucked up, can't walk in a straight line, can't pour water into a glass without considerable effort, TV seems to be in half-second stop action, can't follow a movie anyway, don't remember anything from 15 minutes ago.
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Frank said:
The idea that being high does not interfere with driving is bullshit.
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Freudian Slit said:
This was pretty much my whole reaction, too.
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Malthus said:
There comes a point, as anyone who has smoked a lot of weed ought to know, where one is simply too stoned to 'compensate' any more. Hell, I've been too stoned to walk to the door, let alone drive! :D
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Larry Mudd said:
"There is no impairment while driving under the influence of cannabis" is an indefensibly stupid position to take.
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Shut the fuck up. Honestly.


For those of you playing along at home....

My prediction is that Dio's next weasel move will be to quibble over his use of the qualifier "chronic".
 
I was gonna jump in yesterday and relate my THC-days, but was gonna stay outta the 'hijack'. THC does not affect me anything like alcohol. Maybe a bit less 'sharpness' of physical coordination, but nothing I, or teammates in soccer, softball, whatever sport, noticed or cared. No stumbling/bumbling silliness whatsoever - ever. Alcohol, you bet, a LOT of effect, much more than THC and I purposely avoided it when getting 'physical' (or driving). I also grad'd tops in pretty much all my class(es) up through/including most of college. Never saw/knew/expected thievery from pot, but alcohol and/or man-made drugs (meth, etc) are much more likely to be related with crime then pot, unless pot is counted as a rime when counting, imho.

And my years of working Trauma (decade+ later) had me seeing that as often as not it was the non-THC positive-by-testing Trauma persons who were at fault for the 'Trauma' when presented to the Hospital. Seriously. I am speaking of things like car wrecks (solo or multiple cars), fall from structure, and other lack-of-coordination related injuries. And fighting - never saw a pothead start a fight myself. I'd not be surprised that most been-there Trauma nurses/Docs would say about the same as me. It was always kinda amusing to overhear the outgoing med-students/interns (~mentors) explaining to the incoming '1st year' students that they would find THC to be not what they knew about from 'the media/reporters' or whatever concept of it they had from non-first-hand experience. I saw/heard an awful lot of drug screen results from injuries (usual betting fodder for Cokes! that and BAC-levels), and I may be off a small amount in how I am saying this, but not in any large 'factor'. Admittedly, a 'positive' does not mean 'presently intoxicated' - take the results as you like. Alcohol, though...should be outlawed and THC made legal if a person is concerned about their safety 'in public'. I sure as heck am, and feel this way. Its like America got it backwards so long ago, but such is society and 'advertising'.

This came to my attention today, so I'll link it as a cite of some relevance, especially with what I have said above. From the link " Persons with heroin dependence and inhalant dependence had the highest rates of ED visits, and marijuana dependence was associated with the lowest rates ". (italics mine)
Cartooniverse, ya there? Video evidence?

Have a great day :)

(on preview, I gotta tell Dio that I, too, grad'd high-school early and ran out of 'technical' courses to take like maths/sciences. It happens, 'eh?)
 
Diogenes the Cynic said:
Yes, it affects cognition, but that's not the same as impairing it. Since it does not impair the ability to perform tasks, I don't see how it can be said to impair cognition. I would argue that it enhances cognition.

You guys sound like you believe everything you saw in those videos that your health teachers showed you in 8th grade. Do you also think that people who smoke pot "freak out" and jump off buildings thinking they can fly? I bet you do.

Anyone who's actually been a chronic stoner or been around them knows that being stoned has no more effect on their driving ability than a cup of coffee. I've even driven on acid. No problems at all except I had to keep reminding myself that I was really driving and I wasn't in a video game.
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Easy there, Evidence. I wasn't kidding when I said I was high last night. I loooooooove marijuana. I'm a NORML Citizen. I'm saving to buy a vaporizer. I'd love to see marijuana legalized, and think it's ridiculous that it is illegal while alcohol is legal. I'm well versed in the literature.

But in post #17, you said marijuana doesn't affect (not impair, not enhance, but affect) cognitive skills. Full stop. You should have know that statement itself was stupid enough to bring everyone howling out of the woodwork, never mind the "I am my own cite" crap later on.

So, are you still going to stick by the statement that you do not believe that pot affects one's cognitive abilities and fine and gross motor skills?

(BTW, I would like to petition the mods to change Dio's status to Evidence. I will pay for a full year of his membership. At any rate, I am herewith pledging to call him Diogenes the Evidence for the rest of my stay on the board.)
 
ivan astikov said:
Of course it affects one's cognition; we wouldn't fucking buy it otherwise!

What we are saying is that it doesn't affect driving ability in any way that should legislated, if it can't be proven to be a factor in accidents.
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Even if we were to grant the veracity of your statement, Dio's claim went far, far beyond that, and you know it.
 
What the... What I'm asking is if you think our school bus drivers would be safer if they were high on their route.
 
$5 says the OP watched the security cam footage, realized he was wrong, and is too childish to come back and admit it like a grownup.
 
This is my favorite part of Diogenes threads, where he either claims that he didn't say stuff that he clearly (and quotably) did, or claims that cites say things they don't, or best of all, both.

It cracks me up that he is expecting us to buy, "I never felt impaired when I was stoned so therefore I was not impaired." Riiiiiight. I just bet he didn't!
 
PunditLisa said:
I'm sorry your camera was stolen, Cartooniverse, and I'm also sorry that your perfectly good rant has been sidelined.
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Yeah, could we change the message board so that a thread that's been Diogenized is a different colour or something? Like the Grapist? That would be handy.
 
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