Will we ever see serious openly gay / lesbian characters in western animation?

I don't recall Richie dating any female throughout the show's run. Do you mind citing which episode?

The only evidence that exists is Dwayne McDuffie the creator of the show saying that he was gay.

We're not talking about the comics. We're talking about the show. It's especially obvious that he has crush on Superman in the opening scene of the season 2 premiere.

There really isn't any point in arguing semantics because in children's cartoons there's never been a character that has outright stated to be a homosexual. The best we've seen is subtext and creators confirming the homosexuality of characters when the show has come to an end.

I sadly don't see this changing soon though because first homosexuality has to become more "safe" and "normal" to most Americans in order for them to feel comfortable with their children seeing homosexual characters. I'm thinking when it's legal for them to get married anywhere in the US is when that level of comfort will finally happen.
 
See, I'm more concerned the opposite way.

Like I said already, I don't have a problem with people gay, but the trend I am seeing from Generation Y is a lot more kids seem to be acting gay or thinking they are gay/bi without even understanding their emotions.

I've encountered more then a few youths that claim to be gay / bi and then when you start asking them questions, it becomes really clear that they are saying that almost exclusively because they think it makes them cool.
 
What does it mean when the back of the package shows the horse from the movie, but the horse inside has eyelashes? It's on shelves now, this little beauty. And have you guys ever heard the term Bumi woman?

In terms of content, I think we have to recognize what I'll call the Princess of Mars factor. It is not technically a heterosexual relationship if one or both of the characters involved isn't human.
 
One minute with google is all it took for me to find an interview with Greg Weisman, on this subject

CMIX: You confirmed during a convention a few years ago that Lexington was gay. When was that decided?
GW: We didn’t plan it from the beginning. We didn’t say, "Okay, here’s the big heavy-set character and here’s the gay character." Over time, we learned more about the characters. And towards the end, it occurred to us that Lexington was gay but that he didn’t know it.

So according to word of god, despite in never coming up in the show, lexington was in the closet


And though i have been having trouble finding an exact source, supposedly Pioson Ivy and Harely quinn were confirmed by Paul Dini to having a lesbian relationship... and as mentioned earlier in the thread there is some suggestive artwork by Bruce Timm and a few heavy handed hints in the tie in comics... And i believe Richie as well was supposedly confirmed via word of God

Except these ARE the subtle hints one would use if they wanted to indicate a characters romantic feelings without directly stating it. both straight and homosexual

ofcourse this is exactly why show creators need to go out of there way afterward to confirm the character's same-sex orientation to fans... like i said before, 90% of audience won't think twice about these things, and the remaining 10% who do think there's something more going on will require Word of God to be sure... The creators behind the show may have no problems with same-sexuality but the are plenty of media watchdogs that was spark a huge controversy if they noticed; so they hide them to make sure they fly under radar relying on those watchdogs falling in the 90% that won't suspect a thing... which is why i push for a more obvious same-sex relationship in western animation



Ya i think another thing that in a way gets in the way of chances to show off a respectable same-sex couple is the fact that the vast majority of western adult shows are comedies which is not really the best place for a normal gay couple; hell even heterosexual couples get played for laughs. Probably a good place to start moving for a normal gay couple would be in something of an older-targetted action/drama series, a series that often takes itself seriously; no chance to just play it for laughs and its older demographic will keep the watchdogs relatively quiet... but there really isn't much in the way of action/drama animated series targetted towards older audiences in the west

though i guess maybe comedy series that take themselves serious on occasions could also work... they just have to play it straight and normal and avoid playing it up for laughs
 
The reality of any comedy or drama, especially a serialized one, is that there has to be conflict. So my issue with something like Torchwood isn't so much that a gay relationship ended with the death of one of the partners but that it was such a rarity on tv as a whole. I do get the sense that Shore Leave and the Alchemist from Venture Brothers are a functional couple, a bit of "will they? won't they?" but nothing too different from a classic screwball comedy.

I would say the metaphors are growing in number and hitting toy shelves. What if Vixen on Brave and the Bold is a consumer model? Certainly, I would say it's telling if you're a Ken/Daisuke shipper who prefers the Japanese voices of the characters. And as I said before, it's not exactly a heterosexual relationship if she's an alien or he's a robot. It's not gay either, but it's certainly queer.
 
I have no clue why I never mentioned The Venture Bros. While they're played for laughs because it's a comedy, the joke is rarely "They're gay". Hell, they are two of the most normal people on the show and in one episode, the only ones in a real relationship.
 
The Simpsons is a satire and makes fun of everything in outrageous ways constantly but I have to say that the way Waylon Smithers is depicted in the show is at least not insulting and often a breath of fresh air. This season's Flaming Moe did a fine job of using the satire of the situation to preach tolerance and understanding. Although I guess he is often considered at least partially closeted in the show

Even the evolution of Patty's homosexuality was treated in a tasteful, if funny, way. And she is openly gay, even if she isn't a part of a "romantic" couple.
 
I think some people are missing the point. The thread is about OPENLY gay characters so stop with the "subtext" and "implied" stuff because it doesn't count as far as the thread topic goes.
 
Do you all remember the dolls Mattel produced for Pocahontas in 1995? They made Pocahontas, John Smith, Kocoum and Nakoma. Look at how dolls and action figures are packaged today. What if there's two ways to get Ahsoka Tano on the shelf and you pick the one with the droid instead of Anakin? It's still a divisive issue but if we go into non-human love interests...

"Men of Steel, Women of Kleenex" is tongue-in-cheek and addresses the silver age but I think it raises some good points. There is something queer in the relationship between Superman and Lois Lane. Is Giselle from Enchanted any more human than Chi from ChoBits or Starfire from Teen Titans?
 
I think we are some years off- consider how it took 40 years from Hanna-Barbera being pressured into keeping Valerie the Pussycat the same race as she was in the comics to Disney rolling out Princess Tiana.

But we are getting closer. Who is the consumer NECA believes would pick up a two-pack of Edward and Alice Cullen action figures in a box store?
 
I think they adopt an "I don't approve of this publically, but what you do behind closed doors is none of my business" kind of attitude. I think this is how most people think in the west, too. Despite the fact that there are some vocal hardliners who are anti-gay or anti-anything that's not sacred, most people adopt a "minding my own business" attitude.

This is how you get so many strange fetishes (FYI, I'm not referring to bisexuality or homosexuality here, I'm just speaking generally) that manifests itself in their pop culture but nobody ever really addresses it out in the open. The panty purchasing machines in Japan are there for your own perusal but nobody is going to actually say they use it. :sweat:
 
My sense is that homosexuality is perceived as something one is meant to grow out of, so there's a good portion of people who frequent gay bars in Tokyo but don't identify as gay, perhaps even take on beards. Samurai culture also had a tradition of homoeroticism.

Slash/yaoi is entirely different, particularly when one of the characters is voiced by a woman. I don't think the Taito pairing, in the Japanese Digimon, was ever really gay-- it was that its fans related more to Tai more than they did Sora.

Going back to the West, what do you suppose Thomas in Pocahontas and Charlotte in Princess and the Frog represent?
 
If it's Gren you're talking about he wasn't gay at all. He was recieved pills that upped his hormones and "gave" him those parts, but I agree on how well he was depicted and despite his appearance you really end up loving his character.
 
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