Will we ever see serious openly gay / lesbian characters in western animation?

It's happened plenty of times in Adult animation.

In Children's animation, we are restricted to the creators of the show outing the characters. (IE: Lexington, Harley Quinn & Poison Ivy, Mr. SImmons, etc.) and speculation.

Ren and Stimpy is a bordeline case: John K has stated their homosexuality, and they were open about it in APC, but not in the kid's version.
 
I think as long it's an issue in the public's eyes (Gay marriage rights, strict parents who view it as a wrong thing to show publicly, religious parents who are against gay sexuality), we won't see it outside of it's subtle text in children's animation.

While not as bad as decades back when segregation was law in America and you wouldn't be able to find many blacks, even in adult television broadcast, I do believe gays being in animation will follow a similar cycle where once gays have as much rights as straight people and we're not being taught that "gay" is a dangerous thing like how people thought de-segregation was, it'll be very open on children's television.

Maybe not for another 30 - 50 years thought. Heck, maybe even 20 with how fast things seem to progress/change on television (And before someone brings up the censorship issue, I think it's cooled down as of recently, considering the things we see on Cartoonnetwork now-a-days and even the more outrageous stuff on Fox sitcoms which could have only made it on South Park awhile back. It's still bleeped out, but you know it's there).
 
But that's the point. I mean personally I think that Bow from She-Ra was gay, and I could probably think of a dozen others. But without them actually stating it, it doesn't count.
 
Why is that? Why does everything have to be spelled out directly in order for it to count? Brainiac 5 clearly harboured romantic feelings for Superman in Legion of Super Heroes, but it was never outright stated, therefore it didn't count? Maggie Sawyer's girlfriend in Superman: The Animated Series was never outright stated to be her girlfriend does she also not count as a lesbian?

In any case, I'm pretty sure the creative team for B:TAS has said that Harley & Ivy have on an off-again on-again relationship, I'll see if I can find the appropriate quotes to confirm that. If you want to question Maggie Sawyer's sexuality, check the commentary on the S:TAS episode "Tools of the Trade".
 
My apologies, allow me to rephrase. I personally didn't see any evidence that Harley and Ivy were lesbians. Therefor, without them outright stating at some point that they were lesbians, I personally don't believe that one.
 
I know there are animes that do handle homosexual, though i can't really name names since i never really watched series. I think some of these series are romantic series that tend to appeal more to women. And others i haven't really gotten around to it... i think some titles i recall hearing about were Maria Sama Ga Miteru, Strawberry panic and gravitation

Clamp has always loved playing around with it, though usually with varying degrees of subtly... usually its only hinted at but i think i recall times when it played heavily enough that it was obvious what was going on. Granted, when it comes to clamp, if you see a hint you can be like 90% certain there's meant to be more; that's just how they roll... I think i recall Tokyo Babylon had a very obvious thing going on between two of the characters; though long time since i saw that series

Also i seem to recall moments of ghost in the shell where it was heavily implied that Motoko was a lesbian or Bi

Frankly I find that TvTropes can be good for this kind of stuff...
Namely the entries on Girls love and Boys love
There's also Straight Gay but that also includes instances where the characters showed no indication of their sexuality within the series like Lexington in gargoyles and Gear in static shock


The key thing is though is that the OP was talking about characters who are OPENLY homosexual. Elements such as subtext are very much up to interpretation as it is very easy to interpret them as being nothing more than just close friends... Personally, just based on what i saw on the show, i never really suspected for an instant that they were lesbians and just thought of them as friends

Frankly i think its rather important to note whether or not the audience knows that they are gay; afterall the reason why western animation only leaves these things to subtext at best is because homosexuality can easily spark controversy... That's how it is with western animation... homosexuals are either played for laughs or played straight but played so subtly that most of the audience would not notice and everyone else needs word of god to ever know for sure... and that's the crux of the issue; homosexuals can not be as open about their relationships(in a non-joking way) as a straight couple can in western animation
 
Yes, agree that the current state of gay characters in Western animation leaves something to be desired. Would think if even *Archie Comics* can now have a gay character (to great sales) that a primetime animated series that's supposedly "daring", "edgy," and "no holds barred" (as they all claim to be) are too chicken to show a well-developed gay character (vs ones that're either closeted, some sort of stereotype not seen in live-action since the 70s/80s, and/or just treated as jokes).

And yes, it has to be actually shown/stated the characters are openly gay, with any relationships treated just like any of the other characters'---not the "nudge nudge, wink wink" treatments of Maggie Sawyer on Superman:TAS and other shows, nor stated by the creators long after the show's axed. Simply "strongly implying" they're gay doesn't cut it.

I doubt it'll take 20-30 years to see an openly gay character in kids' shows, if (as noted above) kids can already see gay characters in Archie comics, (live-action) primetime sitcoms, and shows aimed at teens (Degrassi High School), not to mention openly gay celebrities they're already used to seeing (Ellen, probably some MTV person, etc). Like how long it took from the civil rights movement (peaking in the mid-60s) to seeing Valerie in "Josie and the Pussycats" show up in animation as a lead character in the early 70s, perhaps it'll happen sooner than we think (or a lot sooner than 30 years)...

Re: gay characters in animation: I haven't seen "Mission Hill," but that sounds like a positive sign. There's also stop-motion animated "Rick and Steve: The Happiest Gay Couple in the World" on LGBT-oriented cable channel Logo, though that probably tends more toward stereotypes (or mocking them)/being specifically gay-oriented (vs "mainstream").
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Poison Ivy and Harley had some sort of lesbian connection after Harley got fed up with Joker after he nearly killed her.

Don't they follow this up in the comics or somehting?
 
Oh you're far from the only one. There's entire fan groups out there just for them.

The problem with it is that they can't outright state it, but there's a mountain of evidence that suggests it. From official drawings of the two by Bruce Timm to this page from the tie-in comic. Then there's the episode Holiday Knights which shows them sharing a hotel room with only one bed.

While not outright stated, because they couldn't, there's still enough to show that the creators knew what they were implying.
 
Heh, when it comes to the internet you will probably find fan groups to A LOT of pairings, whether there is serious evidence that its possibly canon or not... ah Shipping...
just nothing they would actually show in the western animated tv show... gotta keep that stuff well below the radar... which is the point of the thread =/

I imagine one reason they would be able to add more obvious implications in the artwork and comics is because those are areas that fall well-below the radar of the people who would spark a controversy over it
 
Considering that the TV-14DSL Glee is being accused weekly of being evil LBGT proproganda, and that certain school districts are trying to ban any mention or teaching of homosexuality at all in elementary schools, it's unlikely that we'll see genuine discussion of homosexuality in children's programming in a long while.

This doesn't excuse the adult-oriented series, though we have to give the animated comedies a pass since they're mostly all just cartoonish farces bound by Rule of Funny, and probably are not the best venue for discussing major sociological issues. (However, the writing in South Park is of a quality that could be said to present these issues at genuine satire, but of course the characters must assume comedic roles.)

I will say though (even though I like the former) I do wish The Simpsons could have done a more sober, issue-oriented episode on homosexuality than either "Homer's Phobia" or "Three Gays in the Condo".
 
I don't know what you guys are talking about with Harley and Ivy. Ivy's happy scenerio was being married to a MAN with a couple of kids. And Harley was shown trying to temp the Joker to "ride his Harley."
 
Yes we did. I was referencing episodes of Batman:TAS/TNBA.



Now I will make room for that possibility. But both girls were clearly shown to have been interested in men though. So I just don't see any way that it can be stated that they were just lesbians.
 
Thing is Harley ends up with children in the end. Harley and Ivy seem more of a case of standard comic book writing: if it brings in the male audience then writers will play up the lesbian thing for laughs and male appeal It's not a legitimate character relationship or anything (comic books and their shows aren't really known for that with all the deals with the devil and stuff that go on and different writers having different interpretations of characters)

Yeah, it's a shame homosexuality here is a lot more taboo and controversial. Viz even edited out a yaoi scene in the Naruto manga (Konohamaru turns into Sasuke and Sai and does a little yaoi with them to make Sakura nosebleed.) When stuff like gay marriage still so controversial. I don't think we'll see serious pairings in kids stuff anytime soon. I myself dont see why Billy can't be shown worrying about his date with Trevor like Arnold can with Stacy.
 
I think we're losing the point of this thread, which is about direct, open and serious examinations of gay characters. That is a big difference than simple innuendo.
 
The only evidence I can find that eludes to this is that a character Richie was partly based on in the comics was supposedly gay. There's absolutely no evidence this trait carried over to Richie in any way, shape or form. Its actually the opposite. Richie HAS dated females in the series.



I looked through some character notes on Lexington from Greg Wiseman and there's certainly nothing suggestive about his character.


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There was, from what I found, ONE COMIC largely considered to be out of continuity where Braniac 5 partook in gay acts. Other then that, there really isn't.



Once again, acting != gay.


These examples are pretty good examples how one can move to an incorrect collusion and probably, moreover, how one can misconstrue acts of one person to another.

- Showing great admiration for another != gay.
- Showing affection to one another != gay.
- Expressing deep feelings to another person about an unrelated topic != gay.

I'm not trying to imply that there is a problem with being gay or bi, but looking for it where it doesn't exist or misconstruing emotions to plaster a person or character with the gay label is just as bad as making fun of someone for being gay.

Everyone has social quirks and simply put, sometimes those social quirks can may lead to someone incorrectly labeling another.

Keep that in mind.
 
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