Will Serious Western animation ever rival Serious Eastern animation?

No, it just embarrassed me. I got halfway through the first video before I gave up.

Does he actually include any clips from cartoons to back up his points? If not, he really should have kept this to a blog. He's flattering himself if he thinks I want to watch him wave his arms about for 30 minutes.
 
"I'm sorry. That went out wrong. I always thought Soap Operas were very serious. Maybe it's the story? The content? Many Anime tends to be dramas and action titles. I tend to see Soap Operas in a few anime. Maybe there are some anime that tend to take themselves a bit too serious? I don't know what to say. Would people want animation to bee more like novels? Many an anime are based on Novels. Ugh...
 
Do you even know what you're talking about? Assuming you mean The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, you picked a REALLY bad example. Haruhi isn't a serious show. It's a satirical show that plays around with silly anime cliches and even challenges the idea of traditional storytelling, the first season with its crazy order of events and the second with its gigantic middle finger to the audience.
 
Maybe it might be better for you to not talk about what you don't know about. Inu-Yasha isn't a flat-out comedy like Haruhi but it's not really dramatically superior to something like Yu-Gi-Oh. It might look moreso since it's not obviously selling anything, but it really is the stuff drinking games are made of (of course, something like EVA can receive the drinking game treatment as well, but it actually has serious themes and, until the end, good storytelling structure to back it up).

Though I am happy you brought up Inu-Yasha, since it's the perfect example of how NOT to do an ongoing story. Let's see if Marn can find a way to declare it superior to JLU.
 
I'll admit, I liked Inu-Yasha back in the day, but the big problem I have is that it's completely run out of steam by the time the Backlash Wave is introduced.

Then there's of course the series introducing other characters but failing to make sure they can keep up with the title character. Sango's boomerang couldn't hack it against the stronger demons. And let's not forget Miroku, who Takahashi made the mistake of giving him an all-powerful attack, but gave him a reasonable limitation as to why he couldn't use it all the time...but that wasn't enough, so she stuck him with an arbitrary limitation in the form of Naraku's wasps, who always happen to be around when the Wind Tunnel would be useful.

And of course, what few guilty pleasures one could get out of the series, like the over-the-top violence and some less *****y moments from Kagome and Kikyo were excised from the adaptation in favor of drawing out the "Sit Boy!" gag as far as it could go and making Kikyo a complete sociopath.
 
The final arc in general was quite... questionable, but I see it as no different than later episodes of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or any such thing. I would still stand by the comment that it tried more than other mentioned shows did. I mean, the ending to JLU was pretty much a slap in the face with the Justice League letting the Legion of Doom go.

Indeed, she was, though I'd argue that's an example of sexism than anything that has to do with the nature of serial storytelling, especially when there's quite a few counter examples.

I don't like superhero comics for that very reason, actually. No real endings, loads of retcons and other similar things. ( I read them for awhile, but quickly grew tired of them for those reasons.) Movies are a bit of a different thing, as most of them tend to kill off the main villain and offer some semblance of closure. So I'd rank them better than the comics, at least. However, all those movies are live-action rather than animated (though recent years has lead to some DTV for Marvel and DC properties.)

I view it as nothing more than another episode, myself. It tells us nothing we didn't already know, and felt more like a shout-out to the comic story it was based on rather than anything else, especially when it's never really mentioned again. If it was referenced or important later on, then that would be something different. Even if we do agree that it's important and worth telling, then there's still ways to incorporate it into a main story (it could have been a ploy of Cadmus instead of Mongul, for example).

Could you list them? Provided we're on the same page of cartoon series with an actual story that has an actual ending. A lot of shows may technically have a goal (Samurai Jack and Megas XLR, to name some recent ones) but only use it as an excuse to air as many self-contained stories as they can until cancellation. A few seem to try to tell a story, but end up getting canceled on a cliffhanger and possess no ending (such as Exosquad and Pirates of Dark Water) American animation seems to get the short end of the stick in that regard it seems.

I also once liked the 80s Ninja Turtles series. I never claimed to be perfect. Tastes change, mature, and (hopefully) improve with time. It's just also preferable that animation improves along with them. As of now, it feels like not many American animators here treat animation as a serious medium for storytelling (or at least, not in the same way Japan has proven it to be capable of) Or perhaps there's people who do and the executives are the ones to blame. Regardless, they're not being made, which is extremely unfortunate.
 
Not as many animated series, with on-going stories, were produced in the USA, compared to other areas (Canada/Europe):
BattleTech: The Animated Series
Conan the Adventurer
ExoSquad
Gargoyles (Season 2)
Invasion America
Legend of Prince Valiant
Phantom 2040
Pirates of Dark Water
Skeleton Warriors
Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go! (Season 3, various elements)
The Incredible Hulk (1996) (Season 1)

The Spider-Man TAS and X-Men TAS series had many story arcs too.

Unfortunately several of those series never reached a conclusion, as you already noted.
 
I rather lament the fact that this thread derailed into a Yugi-Oh vs. JLU thread, when neither are written with young adults in mind.
 
Which is a shame. It would be nice if animation could be used more seriously for telling a story here in the US, rather than episodic adventures of superheroes or similar characters. As of right now, though, I'd have to side with Japan as a whole.
 
Of course, the real insult here is not that Marn thinks Yu-Gi-Oh! is the better series than JLU, but that Queen's Blade is inherently better than any episodic series because it has on ongoing plot.

And, judging by some of the posts I've seen on here and on GameFAQs, it's apparently supirior to Mobile Suit Gundam on the grands that it doesn't involve giant robots. :shrug:
 
....Your Joking about the Queens Blade thing right? Right!?? good lord, the Day thats a good series is the day Pigs Fly, its cold in a hot place & Paris Hilton gets an I.Q. all in one day. & that my friend would is the Only way QB would be a good series.

You want Good TRULY MATURE ANIME (or at least alot Closer to Mature the QB)...

1. Black Lagoon
2. Cowboy Bebop
3. Trigun
4. Samuri Champloo
5. Baccano!
6. Trinity Blood

& of course last but not least! 7. CLAYMORE!!!:anime:

Now theres some good serious animes!

As for US animation...I still say shows like Spawn, Gargoyles & Certain eps of Batman:TAS could be on par with anime!:D
 
Just read the thread. Marn brings up that having an ongoing story inherently means a show is better than one with an episodic story. He also said that even Queen's Blade had an ongoing story. So it's pretty much a "Worst of X is better than the best of Y" thing.

He also had a tendency to completely dismiss the merits of any series involving giant robots for some weird reason.
 
Reads......Oh now that is just So SOOO WRONG! On so many Levels!:mad:

P.S. GIANT ROBOTS ROCK!!!!

Seriously Gundam & other mech shows were one of the Backbones of Anime's Popularity here in the US (Along with DBZ, Sailor Moon & Pokemon of Course!)

Dissing Mech anime is just Wrong! (I don't mind people disliking it..but dissing it is just wrong!:sweat:)

(Likeing Queens Blade is Wrong too! LOL!:evil:)
 
My statement was more on the flabbergastation that even fanservice stuff like Queens Blade have a lot of time and effort put into crafting a story (whether it's good or not is irrelevant) while most shows over here do not. It's still a cringe-worthy show by all means, but when you realize most shows Japan crates have a lot of effort put into them, even the throwaway ones that sell card games or are for otaku perverts, then it seems like they at least put their all into those works and treat them as a capable medium for all kinds of stories (even the extremely questionable ones)

I'm not sure what Mobile Suit Gundam has to do with anything, but that would actually be a good example of what animation can accomplish in terms of story and thematics (much more than Queens Blade, at least). I'm not sure how you managed to come to that conclusion, but I would really appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth.
 
As I recall, Queen's Blade is just a fanservice anime disguised as a generic tournament plot. They aren't crafting a story, or creating an interesting world, or writing compelling characters. You don't need an ongoing plot to do that. Samurai Jack was just a bunch of artistic scenes of a man walking and it is much better than many plot-focused shows will ever be. Most of those "superior Japanese shows" have even less effort put into them than American shows (because frankly, it seems like this is more an "Anime is betteru" debate than a "Episodic shows are teh s uck" one). Most of those card game shows or fanservice shows were created solely to advertise merchandise or show nudes, nothing more. They have to include a plot, because without it, it reveals the true nature of those shows: infomercials and pornography. There is no effort involved. All they do is take a generic template, and then add product placement or money shots when needed. Also, keep in mind that the most popular anime in Japan are episodic.

If someone drew a rotting apple onscreen for 22 minutes, would adding some slapdash "plot" at the very last second suddenly make things okay? If someone spent their life making a show, but it has no plot, does that mean that the rotting apple had more effort behind it? Are you telling me that Queen's Blade is better than Looney Tunes?
 
Overall I think Amercians make the best animated shows. Some of the shows amercians have made have had a huge impact on pop culture.

The Simpsons
Spongebob
Family Guy
South Park
Invader Zim
Loony Tunes
 
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