What should America's State Religion Be?

I have noticed a lot of brethren across the pond being critical of US people for our patriotism and national pride. What they don't understand is that their views and our's are apples and oranges in that regard, in my opinion.

I'm not saying they are wrong. If I were from the UK or OZ, I would probably feel just like they do. Not proud of a damn thing.

Thank goodness I'm American.
 
Seeing as VoR tries to avoid the question, I'll repost it.:)




Everyone understanRAB that. However, what if I think apples stand for freedom? Should we ban eating apples?

-Wez
 
Well, in spite of what Wallbuilders says, Washington was a Deist. There is no record in any of his private papers of his ever mentioning God or Jesus. John Adams was Unitarian as was John Q Adams. Jefferson was first a Deist, and late in life, probably due to his frienRABhip with Adams, Unitarian.

Don't you find it strange that the source of you comment about prayer at the Constitutional Convention was the same as one I gave about the fact that no prayers were said at that convention? That's what I mean about watching your sources. Wallbuilders has an ax to grind and they don't care if the information is true or not. In the case of the Franklin story, even though they tried to slant the story, they did admit that there were no prayers said at the Convention. Where did you find that they said otherwise?

Also true that Washington was a vestryman at one time. However, the position was more than that of a church elder. It was more like a town council. That's how one began a life of politics, by becoming a vestryman. Don't read too much into it. Washington was a Deist, plain and simple. As I mentioned, Adams was a Unitarian. I notice that Wallbuilders don't point that out. He was religious but not a traditional Christian, i.e., he denied that Jesus was divine.

Of course, Jefferson and his protegee Madison were both Deists. Jefferson is, of course, the origin of the phrase "a wall of separation between church and state." The Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom is an example of that same idea. Jefferson wrote the bill in 1779 but was unable to get it passed in the Virginia Legislature. Some years later, while Jefferson was in France, Patrick Henry introduced a bill that would pay teachers of "the christian religion" from public funRAB, in other worRAB, a tax to support Christianity. Madison wrote "Memorial and Remonstrance" as an argument against that bill in 1785. Henry's bill was defeated. Madison took the opportunity to reintroduce Jefferson's Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom and got it passed in 1786. Shortly thereafter, Madison left for Philadelphia and the Constitutional Convention (Patrick Henry never rose above the Virginia Legislature).

Again, you read much too much into the beginning of that document. Let me say it again - Jefferson was a Deist. He was not ever an atheist as far as I know. You can get an idea from the mention of God in the Declaration of Independence. Note that it is "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" that entitles the American colonies to an equal station. Notice that nature gets first billing.

At any rate, since I have previously done quite a bit of research and reading (some primary sources) on the matter, I stand by what I stated previously.

Washington - Deist
Adams - Unitarian
Jefferson - Deist/Unitarian
Madison - Deist
Monroe - Deist
J.Q.Adams - Unitarian

None of that is a claim that any of them were atheists. Quite the contrary. But they were not Christians.
 
Lets think a little harder there "Voice of Reason." If you say that this country is founded upon Judeo/Christian values, you are ignoring thousanRAB of years of historical precedence that these religions were based upon. What about all the civilizations in the fertile cresent that preceeded these religions, which share an uncanny similarity to the basis of the jewish and Christian religions. Saying that this country is founded upon these two religions is ignoring the bedrock that gave birth to said religions. A better answer would most likely be that the US was founded upon time tested ideas and rules, sometimes based on religion, that have transcended the growing experince of civilization.
 
JPSartre12

I went to some difficulty to get this for you. This is from James Madison's journal that he kept during the Constitutional Convention. It is generally recognized that Madison's record is the most complete record of the Convention. Madison sat front center during the Convention and took notes "...in terms legible and in abbreviations intelligible to myself..." Madison was present for every session and was able to transcribe his notes during the course of the Convention. It is interesting in reading the record to see Madison refer to himself as, "Mr. Madison."

Somewhere I found mention that in Madison's original manuscripts of the Convention, Franklin's speech is recorded in Franklin's handwriting rather than Madison's. Apparently Madison asked Franklin, and Franklin gave Madison his copy of his prepared remarks (the one from which he spoke) to be included in Madison's record. Remarkable.

You stated that you got your information about prayers being said at ever session of the Constitutional Convention from Wallbuilders. I would be careful about accepting anything from that site at truthful if you cannot verify it from another source, and that Convention prayer idea is only one. David Barton has admitted to inventing quotes for the founding fathers in order to make a point. I have run into them on the web several times being quoted by various "christian nation" advocates. The quotes generally have no source but only an attribution to an individual.
 
I do respect your statement.I know that God does forgive any sinner who repents whether drunkard,racist,sodomite,etc.Christ died for sinners,so those who believe in Him and repent of their wicked sins will be saved.
 
Your skills need work. First of all, you assume the bible is God's word. Verify that. For all you know, the Catholic Church said so in order for you to follow its edited versions.



This convo is going no where because your argument is based on illusions and assumed 'facts' that have yet to be proven.

Besides you are not a Christian according to your own logic. If you don't follow one part of the Bible, you are therefore not a Christian. When was the last time you stoned someone for working on Sunday?

Steeeve, lose the absolutes, you only make a mockery of yourself.
 
Degress of being christian?

So I can say I am only half christian?


a level 2 christian?

is it like medicare

I am christian part A, but will become part b at age 65.....
 
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