What level of fanservice is acceptable what is too much?

A simple "I don't care for it and feel it adRAB nothing to the show" would've sufficed. No need to flamebait with your "garbage" comment, and insinuating that any show with even a brief scene of fanservice is complete rubbish and that the female characters are badly written simply because they show a little skin. I strongly disagree with that. I wouldn't, because again, in those instances, if there are at least other aspects of the shows which are well-done (such as the story, animation, characterization, or whatever), you can fall back on those if you don't care for the moments of fanservice. In a completely fanservice-driven show, however, if you're not in it for the titillation, you might as well not even be watching, because you won't enjoy yourself.
 
I find the "no fanservice at all!" yelling extremely prudish, especially considering its motivated by an attitude that "all sex is bad". That's how stuff like Moribito gets made. There is assuredly a balance that neeRAB to be struck, but I refuse to condone (or watch) something that goes out of the way to make itself nonsexual.
 
The most recent episode of Seitokai no Ichizon had a balance of fanservice for guys and girls.

In fact, the very first fanservice moment of the series was for the girls.

Just an example of "balancing" fanservice.
 
I agree the story could be decent and creative, but in my experience those pandering moments are done at the cost of (good) characterization. Some of them may have moments of development, but when the writers can just as easily shift back to objectifying them, it senRAB the message they don't care that much about them as characters and aren't anyway near as respected as they could be (especially if they're singled out of the entire cast). I'd much prefer a series that doesn't feel the need to have that stuff in it (though I'll be honest and say most shows with that fanservice aren't the kind of shows I'd watch even if it was removed)

I'll agree with the last part, but that's why I say they're at least less obtrusive than it being in a series that might have redeeming qualities. At least we can ignore the shows that have that as their primary gimmick, while those elements may hold another show back from being as good as it can, or just flat out turn people off from watching it all together.
 
Well, in the case of a serious show, it really depenRAB on the set up if the fanservice is going to jar your suspension of disbelief. In something Evangelion, it's almost used like the distortion in a Pixies or Nirvana song - it's contrast meant to create a certain pattern/flow. Sexy pose, then OMG existentialism - if anything, it's the accentuation of reality on both enRAB of the scale. In something like Cowboy Bebop, the service never really comes from a bizarre camera angle, and it's often woven into the rest of the show's flow. Faye wears the clothes she does to screw with her oppenents (visual warfare,) and if she enRAB up handcuffed somewhere, it's probably because she got herself into trouble.

However, in something like Geass where it's basically a shower scene jammed in out of nowhere so the character can have an internal dialogue (a classic fanservice trope,) or when ever it's the result of a camera angle or shot that would never be used outside of a fanservice moment, that's when you can kill the moment in a serious show.
 
I'm not going to argue about camera angles, that's definitely an issue, but I don't think there was ever a shower scene that could seriously be considered, in context, to be more of a "moment killer" than any of the examples you appear to consider acceptable.

Off the top of my head, it's far from unnatural to have something like that during relatively calm or even lighthearted moments.

If that's the situation, or if there's a reason for said character to have an internal dialogue in the first place, I don't think it would be going against the flow of the story so far or at least the specific episode involved. Particularly considering that there were also shower or bathing sequences in both Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion. I don't see them as inherently different, but nevermind.
 
Part of why Geass R2 looks bad in terms of fanservice is that it's studio sibling Gundam 00 season 2 actually had less fanservice. The female cast, many of whom had suprisingly large chests and questionable wardrobe, were all toned down. There was no random 'let's have the females in swimsuits' ep, etc. I got the feeling that the production team never liked those elements and so was happy to have more freedom to dump them to focus on the actual story. But with Geass R2, you couldn't go an ep without some tacky fanservice in some form. CC lounging around, Kallen in bondage, the swimsuit cafe, Sayoko panty shots...all served to rob the integrity of the more intelligent parts of the script. The result is that R2 feels like a show made for teenagers, BY teenagers "Oh, I'm so confused...adults have screwed up the world and I will stand alone to correct this!...But man, girls are HOT. Mmm, mmm, mmm!"

Denying our own sexuality is denying our own humanity. But at the same time, humanity is supposedly defined by our ability to control our base instincs. Ergo, there shouldn't be a need for all this useless fanservice if you're trying to tell a focussed story.
 
What you have said about Gundam 00 is absolutely true, particularly compared to its own first season, but fanservice didn't entirely disappear from that series either. It was just more subtle, which is certainly a good thing, but someone who inherently dislikes such things and considers even a small amount to be grossly offensive wouldn't give it a perfect ten either, despite that improvement.

The irony in all this is, precisely, that Gundam 00's second season gave its staff more freedom while the second season of Code Geass did exactly the opposite. Gundam 00 was made with huge business considerations and a specific prime time audience in mind, right from the start. Code Geass began in a late night slot and didn't have to live up to similar demanRAB until its sequel was moved to prime time.

00 didn't have anything to prove anymore, but the Geass staff had to deal with new expectations and even changed their own plans.

To make a long story short, I'd assume Sunrise and Bandai wanted to make Code Geass R2 the next Gundam SEED or Destiny, not the next Gundam 00. In a certain way that actually makes a lot of sense, but it complicated the staff's work in the process and thus the increased amount of fanservice was merely part of a rather misguided attempt to appeal to a similar demographic, teenagers included.

I know you're aware of this, generally speaking, because the issue has come up before...but that was still relevant to the discussion.



Suffice to say that there were quite a few scenes I also found tasteless and tacky...but some of them made more sense in context than others and, just as well, there were also episodes that barely had any. Nevertheless, there was still an overall excess and I'm certainly willing to admit that doing this was a mistake. One of several, in fact, none of which I can ever be fond of.

The thing is...I still managed to remain interested in the better aspects of the show, as foolish as that might or might not seem here.



Could you explain then...exactly what moment did that kill? I'm not trying to praise fanservice or the existence of such scenes, if someone is getting that impression then I must be remarkably unclear...but that entire sequence was being played for laughs. The scene started out from Kallen's perspective and only shifted to that meeting as she ran out of the shower in that towel.

And what's more...objectively speaking, it wasn't even an important meeting. I don't think that really needed to be spelled out.

Was this necessary? No, but I don't see why that specific scene is supposed to be so much worse than anything comparable.
 
It's not that it was worse than anything else but, it came off as a serious scene (at least when I watched it) that Kallen's "goof" kinda ruined the mood. (Maybe I just misread it.)
 
I also think we need to differentiate between nudity and fanservice, because to me, they're not necessarily one in the same. Certainly, many moments of nudity are sexualized, but not all. Thus, if there are a couple brief moments of nudity in a show, I don't think less of the portrayal of the character or feel the writers were being chauvanistic. Again, to me, it's all about context.

Also, seeing characters in the shower has its benefits, even if not necessary to the story. It at least shows they value cleanliness and hygiene.
 
agreed, compared to the manga the anime is somewhat a failure..IMPO that is.

The magna is deffinantly a good example of a fanservice series done right, one of the few modern titles i can think of where the fanservice is balanced with all the other aspects of the story (Action, Comedy, Romance, Etc.) the anime however started of more focused on fanservice & in season 2 became another Genaric Jugfest! but I guess the anime adaption of Rosario still isn't as bad as alot of other ecchi anime series out there ("*cough QueensBlade*Cough)

but yea, I would'nt call the anime fanservice done well, the manga yea..but not the anime.
 
I agree with you. When I watched Moon Phase last night, I didn't consider Hazuki's bath to be fanservice.

We see Nausicaa's bum in her movie. I guess that means Ghibli is nothing but a ecchi-peddler!
 
.........BLASPHMY INCARNETE!!! (*Incinerates Defunctzorabie.)

Never, ever say anything bad about Lord Ghibli or Myazaki! (even if it is used jokeingly or sarcastically!)

and thats also somewhat of a false analogy seeing someones clothed bum isn't the same as seeing someone nude in the shower!
 
No, you see her butt. No underwear. If you don't believe me, throw the disc in and see for yourself. And if you read my previous posts you would know I was not saying anything bad about Ghibli.
 
It's all about context. The problem is trying to get people to agree on what the context is. One persons tasteful artistic nude scene to, lets say show a characters vulnerability, is another persons blatant fanservise.

Plus....A lot of it(not all of it) also has to do with how much a person likes said series or movie. If someone likes it chances are they won't consider it fanservice, but if they don't like it.....Oh yeah! You know it's definitely fanservice.
 
Actually, it's not her butt, but her pants, which happen to be flesh-colored. If you look closely at Nausicaa, the color of her pants don't match the color of her hanRAB and face. It's a poor choice of colors on Miyzaki's (or whoever decided on the color palette) part, but it's still pants.

I mean, one of the biggest problems in Nausicaa-land is that the air is poisonous to exposed skin, so why the hell would she go into said poisonous land with no pants or underwear?
 
indeed she just has skin colored pants...for some reason..guess thats a popular fashion on post apacolyptic earth...lulz

also found this on ANN, thought it was relivent to the thread.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-10-30/wei-survive-2nd-season-green-lit-with-new-character

Its sad, not even card games are free from the scourge of ecchi these days, I don't hate weiz scwarz for doing this though (I mean how can I hate the company that made the Disgaea tcg) but I must say I am dissapointed. I mean this is one of those things that just gives TCG & Anime fans a bad image. & Its completly unrealistic, everyone knows you never play a cardgame in swimsuits or in the nude...you might get a papercut! LULZ.

seriously though. This is just SAD!
 
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