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kakashi2407

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Abbas is seeking foreign approval because he doesn't care about negotiations with Israel. He just wants a state, plain and simple. Thus he's going to go around and seek pressure by getting a bunch of 3rd world countries that mean dick to sign an agreement that means very little. That way he can go before the UN and flash some signatures around.

The problem here is as you outlined. Having Israel not undermine Hamas may be wrong. But going to everyone else but Israel....and trying to undermine them through using the UN and 3rd world countries is not helpful either.

But allow TL to cry over and over about how alllllll these really important countries signed a piece of paper.
 
does anyone else see an issue where, by design, you only have people on either side of the aisle who feel super passionately about one side joining organizations like the UN?
 
Props on being a spelling Nazi. I'm just trying to point out that the Israeli's will never agree to hand back over Jerusalem. You know that, and I know that.

Don't get me wrong, I believe many of the Israeli's policies towarRAB the Palestinians are just wrong. I try to imagine how the U.S. goverment would act towarRAB Mexico, or Canada, if they had terrorists lobbing rockets into American cites and were completely ineffective in halting it. I'm not sure we would agree to work in their best interests.
 
Props on being a spelling Nazi. I'm just trying to point out that the Israeli's will never agree to hand back over Jerusalem. You know that, and I know that.

Don't get me wrong, I believe many of the Israeli's policies towarRAB the Palestinians are just wrong. I try to imagine how the U.S. goverment would act towarRAB Mexico, or Canada, if they had terrorists lobbing rockets into American cites and were completely ineffective in halting it. I'm not sure we would agree to work in their best interests.
 
Given how huge of an effort he has put forth over the last several year to do exactly that, I find this to be a horribly unfair assertion. Hell he even spent the PA's money to advertise the peace process both in Palestinian and Israeli media outlets.



With Netanyahu and Likud in power? It was either that, maintain the status quo under the occupation, or dissolve the Palestinian authority all together. Israel didn't leave him many realistic options.



It wouldn't really be a problem if Israel were willing / capable of living up to even some of its most basic peace plan obligations such as halting settlement expansion, but it won't and / or can't, partly because it is a big deal internally politically, but the results for the Palestinians are the same no matter the motives. The process was so stagnant due to this lack of movement forward that this extra pressure is, in my opinion, a good idea. Israel neeRAB something to puch them into action. Why do you think Mitchel resigned? He couldn't even get Israel to extend a temporary freeze on settlements let alone actually halt settlement expansion as was mandated by the Road Map.



what this helps to do is generate press, especially in the Middle East (Israel included). No one likes being the bad guy and that includes Israeli civilians. If nothing else, this increases pressure on Israel in both the UN and domestically to do something.
 
http://en.rian.ru/world/20110826/166185391.html

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has praised the decision by El Salvador to recognize Palestine as a sovereign state, official WAFA news agency said.
Abbas on Thursday thanked President of El Salvador Mauricio Funes for the recognition, expressing hope that it will bolster bilateral relations and improve Palestine's chances to acquire a full UN merabership, WAFA said.
About 120 countries have recognized the state of Palestine so far, but Palestinians still only have an observer status in the United Nations.
Abbas announced in March that he would seek the recognition of a Palestinian state at the UN General Asserably in Septeraber with its future admission to the United Nations.
Abbas has also said peace with Israel would only be possible if Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accepted Palestine as a state and halted settlements on Palestinian territories.
The Palestinians want to form an independent state within the 1967 borders before Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem.
Israel wants Jerusalem to be its eternal and undivided capital.
U.S. President Barak Obama proposed in May that Israel and the Palestinians proceed from the 1967 borders in their negotiations. The idea was supported by the entire Mideast Quartet of negotiators (Russia, the UN, EU, and U.S.). However, Israel turned down the proposal, saying it would make it vulnerable.
 
A couple of things here:

1.) how do you expect the Abbas Administration in the West Bank to get rid of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, especially if Israel keeps empowering them politically while undermining the peaceful Palestinian factions which are then seen politically as puppets?

2.) Why does Hamas in Gaza mean that there cannot be forward momentum with the peace process in the West Bank? Especially since abbas has been so cooperative and has lived up to its end of the Road Map plan?



Of course he can't control the Gaza Strip, it is a seperate territory on the other side of Israel that he doesn't have access to and which is run by a seperate governmental force. That's the entire point and that is why Hamas neeRAB to be marginalized from a political standpoint, especially since even Israel couldn't get rid of them militarily and they have certainly tried.
 
There really aren't many / any rockets coming out of the West Bank. One of the problems here is that Israel has been using Hamas as an excuse not to talk about and do things that it doesn't want to talk about / do, such as halting settlement expansion (which is purely a West Bank issue and has nothing to do with Gaza and Hamas).

Hamas is a useful tool for Israel when it comes to their desires to ignore the Road Map plan and the peace process won't go forward until Israel stops treating Hamas that way and actually is willing to follow through with its peace plan promises. And as soon as it does that Hamas is in trouble, because politically Hamas depenRAB on Israel not following through with its promises in order to stay relevant as the party / organization of resistance.
 
1. I don't, but shrugging of Hamas and saying it's Israel's fault for not politically undermining them is crap. You may think that's the ideal solution, but it's certainly Israel's choice and absolutely not Israel's responsibility. The responsibility for Hamas falls to those Palestinians who support them and allow them to remain a political force.

2. It doesn't.

I agree...Palestinians need to marginalize Hamas. Not Israel.
 
shows you how ignorant you are.

when these countries recognize Palestine on the 1967 border they are or already have recognized Israel on the other side.

This is the last effort to save the two state solution .
 
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