Taper from oxycodone - round 3

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I am erabarrassed to be starting yet another thread about trying to taper from oxycodone. I've tried twice before (May 08 and Mar 09), documented my progress on two separate threaRAB here, had all kinRAB of support and was very optimistic....then failed both times. Hence, I am reluctant to even write about it again for fear of disappointing everyone; yet, I feel I must. The only way I can get through this successfully is to learn from my past mistakes. I went back over my old posts and it was actually very revealing. I wanted to see how far I got in those attempts, and how I felt, and what made me fail. Therefore, I hope you don't mind that I'm posting my thoughts as I go down this path again.

Quick background: I'm 59 and have been on oxycodone for severe degenerative disk disease since '03. Had diskectomy (surgery) in '04 -- didn't help. Despite a history of heroin/methadone addiction (which I didn't share with my doctors), I accepted their scrips for Percocet. Started off with one 5mg pill each night; over the years it's progressed up to 60-75 mg per day of oxycodone. Here are some of the many reasons I want off:

  • It doesn't really relieve the pain; sure, it dulls it a little....but the amount I need to "dull" the pain gets progressively higher and higher.
  • My whole life and personality have changed. It could be pain-related depression (plus some other family stressors), but I've got to think the endorphin-suppressing narcotic is responsible in some way. I'm miserable; no joy in life; withdrawn from society; hate everything and everybody, including myself. I don't even like most fooRAB anymore. My stomach is a mess. I can rarely think of anything to eat that I'd enjoy.
  • My life revolves around the pills. I can't get out of bed 'til I have it. The pills control where I go; whether I can travel; heck, where I LIVE (what if I can't find a doctor willing to write for my usual amount)? I always have to make sure I have enough with me. I usually take the whole bottle with me -- what if I'm delayed or in an accident and can't get home in time for my next dose? Better to just have the whole scrip with me.
  • I have no energy to do anything. Everything is overwhelming. Bills and other important things are falling behind.
  • I hate how I feel on them. Yes, they used to make me feel good and give me energy. Now, I don't get the energy boost; just feel a flushed/sweaty feeling and then kind of a "downer" effect. I feel like they're constantly pushing me down....hard to explain, but I know this: If they're not killing the pain, and not making me feel good, then what's the point?

So, I'll try to wrap this up -- here's where I am with the taper:

  • I told my PM I was trying to taper off, so he accommodated me (!) by reducing my monthly scrip by 500% (from 2250 mg to 450 mg). Eeek, I wasn't expecting that! But it forced me into a rapid reduction.
  • I started 9 days ago at approx 38 mg. I felt pretty darn bad, as that was a sudden 50% reduction from my usual 70-75 mg.
  • I've tapered down to approx 21 mg today (assuming I finish the day successfully). I've extended my dosing schedule and reduced the mg per dose. I'm not a ball of energy, and I'm still feeling weird and shaky and headachy, but I feel much better than this time last week when I could barely move.
  • I have a big weekend event coming up, so this will be the true test. In past attempts, I have used big events as the excuse for failing, because I didn't have the energy to handle them without my usual dose of oxy.
  • I don't want to do any other major reductions until after this weekend, but I will still be trying to taper a mg at a time. I do not want to lose momentum. Nor do I want to drag this out for weeks.

So that's where I am. I don't know what I'm going to do about the pain, but I can no longer stand my life the way it is. (Oh, and Brian, I am also looking into a spinal cord implant stimulator...I have a consult next week. That's now another "event" I have to worry about....I hope I am up to it.)
 
Lady Buffy,

Please support the originl poster, and start another thread for your own questions.

Your post has been moved to a new thread:
"Pain relief without meRAB?"
 
You're right -- I think the worst shock to my system was going from 70 mg to 38 then 33 then 28 in a matter of three days. I wonder if that was really my doctor's plan (when he drastically reduced my scrip). He's probably sick of my saying "I want to get off" and then not being able to do it. If this works, I really gotta hand it to him for forcing the issue.

You're not going to believe this, but today I feel great. I actually am doing some light cleaning/organizing (yes, I did pay the bills over the weekend)....I know it will make me feel better if my environment is neater and more organized. I've been wallowing in a sea of clutter, and because I've been feeling so lousy, I just keep making more clutter. But today I was able to make a lot of headway in cleaning up. Maybe doing some dancing yesterday got the endorphins out of hiding!

Gotta keep on truckin'! Even though it feels like I'm on a low dose now, I've got to keep in mind that I'm still on the equivalent of over THREE 5-mg Percocets a day. So I've still got a ways to go....but today's little "energy burst" has really given me hope that maybe I CAN function without them!
 
NICE and congratulations for you !!!
Remeraber one step at a time and we are all here for you !!!

GOOD LUCK along the way "keep on trucking"

DEv
 
I tried stretching between doses and it didn't work well for me, but I was stretching the time when I was taking a single dose a day. Not understanding the drug back then, I see that it was stupid for me to do that. You plan has a much better approach. Once you get between 12-15 hours since your last dose, you start feeling the w/d's and that was where I went wrong. Good Plan!!
 
Well it sounRAB like you have not abused them in the past, you just don't feel good while taking them. Have you told your PM doc this? There is such a thing as opiod rotation where you switch to a different opiod medication such as fentanyl patch, Oxycontin, Morphine ER. I was going to say Methadone but maybe that's not a good idea since you have abused that before. Another thing I looked at was whether you were a man or woman. I am a guy and was getting to the point of where you are feeling and it turned out to be very low testosterone. The opioRAB suppress the bodies natural production of testosterone and luckily there is testosterone replacement therapy. This is good news for guys but not for women. Women produce testosterone too and it drops when using opioRAB/opiates but doctors are very very reluctant to do any type of testosterone therapy. It is is not fair and I think they should. I know women produce much less testosterone. Another thing you should do is have your doctor do blood work and check your thyroid gland to see if it is functioning normally. This is another thing that can be affected and their are medications that can help this for men and women. It is up to you but I think it would be a good idea plus having your liver levels checked since Percocet has acetaminophen in it and is not good for your liver long term at high amounts.

Are you on any type of anti-depressant? Most pain managment patients, me included, develop depression since our natural endorphins and other neurotransmitters are suppressed. It sounRAB like you are definitely depressed and should tell your doctor this. You could probably still stay on the pain meRAB but add an anti-depressant which would improve your outlook, get you energy, etc. Don't beat yourself up for going back on the oxycodone. Did you go back on it because of the pain being uncontrollable or because of the feeling it gives you? If you went back on due to the pain then you should not be ashamed. One other thing to mention, especially if you have nerve pain, is that there are many medications (non-narcotic) that can be used to treat that type of pain. OpioRAB/opiates tend to not treat nerve pain very effectively but when used along with one of the following medications may be more effective:

Anti-convulsants: Neurontin, Lyrica, Trileptal, Tegretol, Topomax

Atypical opiod: Ultram (tramadol), Ultracet

Anti-depressants: Cyrabalta, Effexor

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

brian:wave:

p.s. If you really want to get off the oxycodone and don't think you can do it yourself then you might want to consider going on Suboxone. It might even be something your PM doc could do because it is used some in pain management.
 
Hello all...checking in. After five days of 5 mg, I cut down to 4 mg (or thereabouts) yesterday. (Hard to know exactly when you're basically measuring out dust particles.) You would think at this low level, I'd hardly notice, right? Noooo, I'm a mess. Mainly depression, and lots of crying and despondency, and anger/rage at stressful things going on in my life, but pain/stiffness too. Fun stuff, huh. Based on my track record of previous reductions, I should feel a little better tomorrow. After all, that was a 20% reduction even though it was only one lousy milligram. Please keep me in your thoughts and prayers, and I appreciate the support.
 
Hi Bri -- well, I managed to tell the doc today I didn't want a scrip. He said to call him if I need anything, but I said I wanted to see how far I could stretch out on the existing supply. Honestly, I feel so lousy, it would have taken extra energy to go to the pharmacy and get a scrip filled, so I was happy to have one less errand.

I am still holding at 7.5. I feel a bit better today, but not great. Tomorrow I have plans to meet an old friend for lunch. I really didn't want to do it, because I'm always afraid those kinRAB of commitments will lead to taking my dose early, just to get the energy to get dressed and go. But....hopefully I'll be able to stick to the schedule and not feel like crap during the lunch. Hard to be cheerful and upbeat when you are going through WD.

As far as my pain goes -- my nerve pain (leg, hand, feet) is bad, but I would say not much worse than when I was taking lots of Oxy. As you probably know, narcotics take the edge off nerve pain, but never fully relieve it. My main problem is increased back pain, stiffness, cracking, body aches and just generally feeling like I got hit by a truck. I definitely feel this is temporary as my body adjusts to life without major doses of narcotics. I know I did not have this type of pain before I started taking the stuff.

No, I still haven't told anyone the real story. And there is really no one I can tell. Or want to tell. I just can't do it....it's too erabarrassing, and I don't feel anyone will understand. I just consider myself fortunate to have you guys. The only people who truly understand are those who have gone through this h*ll.

Thanks as always for your support and responses.
 
:D that made me laugh too funny. At least you are taking pills that help you instead of hurting you at this point. I don't think it would be a good idea to stop the anti-inflammatory either. That would be setting yourself up for a relapse. Just remeraber that: "our disease wants to see us SUFFER as much as possible and after all that suffering to eventually KILL US".

brian
 
Have you thought about attending an NA meeting? You can tell your story there with no erabarrassment at all. Trust me on that one, most people have heard about all kinRAB of things. I don't know if you will be able to handle the pain once you get off of all the medications, ya know. I know take it one step at a time but you might have to make a decision on what to do in the future. There are many non-narcotic medications out there as I'm sure you are aware of.

I am on Lyrica and it has helped my nerve pain quite a bit. However, I am on other narcotic medication but I do use it as prescribed and have never abused it. I am on the fentanyl patch and Vicodin for BT pain. I hate the way it makes me feel (tired, drowsy, slowed thinking) but it gets the pain down to a manageable level. I am going to try the SPS(spinal cord stimulator) soon which is an implantable pain management solution. Did your doctor ever talk to you or offer that to you. It is effective for some types of pain especially in the legs and feet. I am willing to try it and at least you go through a trial to see if it will help before they fully implant it. Just wanted to tell you that you are an inspiration and I will remeraber this if I ever decide to reduce to stop my medications in the future.

brian
 
Yes, I agree it would be difficult to go 12-15 hours between doses. At this point, I've gone from every 2-1/2 hours to every 5 hours, so that's an accomplishment (for me). Even at that, I start feeling hot/sweaty/antsy approaching the 5-hour mark. So I like the idea of tapering the dose down further, until it gets so insignificant maybe my body won't notice when I start stretching the schedule out.
 
You are my hero and have your head in the right place. I can't tell you how impressed I am of you. I am just not. I have a week before my next script and I am not sure I can turn it down. I'm planning on giving it to a friend and seeing if I can get some help. You are such a wonderful role model. Thank you. Sharing with the board is of such benefit to us all.
rr
 
I found that opioiRAB suppress appetite among other things. That is quite true in my case. Almost zero interest in food. Could be depression, or could be the opioiRAB. In any event, I have lost a bit of weight during the taper (and I can't afford to lose much more). I look forward to the day I enjoy and relish food again.

Today's update: My PM doc did agree to my request for a small scrip of 5/325 Percocet. Geez, I forgot how huge those pills are! Ick....I hate swallowing pills. But anyway, they definitely will be much easier to split down into half- and quarter-pill doses.
 
OK, guys, here we are: Last day of taper. I haven't taken any oxy today, and my final dose will be a miniscule "dustball" of
 
Hey NotPerky... Watch how fast to drop towarRAB the end. That was when I really had bad w/d's because I pushed hard to get off. I was dropping 50%+ at a time after a few days on a dose and I really suffered because of it. See what level of w/d's you can tolerate and plan your dosage drops around that. I would still recommend holding to the 10-20% rule if possible. My worst time was below 10 mg/day, but that was because I didn't listen to the people here.

I was taking a single dose at a time and suffered 15 hours later. Break your doses down into 2 or 3 doses a day. So at 15 mg/day, that is 3 - 5/325's. Next drop to 12 mg/day, which is 3 - 4 mg doses or down to 10 mg/day trying 2 doses of the 5 mg pills. See how you handle it and continue to drop down until you feel you are ready to go cold turkey. Your body will tell you if you are dropping too fast or if you need to stay at a dose a little longer to get used to it. It's a struggle, but the end result is SOOOOooo much worth it. Good Luck!
 
Hiya

I couldn't help but let out a bit of a chuckle as I read your last post here. Not laughing at all at you, but just recognizing myself in you. I plodded through those tapers with days of tears (oh, how many tears??), depression hitting on and off, anxiety raising its ugly head and perioRAB of feeling like plain old poo-poo. Somedays I would say my mantra a hundred times... "I am getting better and stronger everyday." When the tears slowed down for a day or two, I would know it was time for another cut. Sigh. What a process of getting better to deliberately do something I knew would make me sicker again!

The positive thing is that the tough times do get shorter and that there truly is a time that comes when all that disappears. We truly are healing as we go through these sick times. Healing in body and mind and soul. It may be crummy, but it is leading to a full healing and for that we are blessed. That we can be restored is an awesome thing. Unbelievable, really, when we think how dark the hole of addiction is and know that there is a way out. So much hope in that, Sweetpea.

You keep right on plodding along. Use the tools you have been discovering and kick those pillsto the curb. You are going to walk out of this a whole woman again, participating and enjoying the participation in life again. That is a promise.

Hold up the hope and claim the promise
Hugs
reach
 
Well, I've been pretty incapacitated for the past five days with my usual complaints -- pain, stiffness, feeling like a truck ran over me, occasional hot flashes, not able to eat much. My car hasn't moved since last weekend. My son (30) may be a source of stress, but at least he's here to help me....don't know how I'd manage without him.

That said, I'm still tapering a little each day. If I'm successful today, I'll be down to 3.5 mg. I want to get OFF this stuff, so my body can start to adjust and heal.

But here's the good news -- guess what I did today? Flushed about 100 15-mg oxycodone pills down the toilet!!! I finally did it. I have enough 5-mg's for the rest of my taper, and I didn't think it was good to keep that other stash around. First off, because you don't want to have a lot of temptation when you're trying to taper; secondly, because this means I CAN'T go off the taper without having to call the doctor for more meRAB; but mostly, because I'm too emotionally unstable, if ya know what I'm sayin'. What if I go off the deep end during one of my crying jags? Better to get rid of 'em. I felt a little bad because this is legitimately-prescribed pain medication that my insurance company paid for and someone could probably use it. But I think "flushing" is an important syrabolic gesture and I'm glad I did it!
 
Oh.. and yes - I lost weight while on Oxy because I didn't care if I ate or not or wasn't hungry. I almost immediately put on 15 pounRAB after getting off (or during detox), but I'm losing it as I become more active and getting my muscle strength back. That was my biggest disappointment (mostly due to my injury and being in bed for 6 weeks) was the amount of muscles mass I lost. More muscle = more calories you burn and the more weight you will lose.
 
I'm down to 1.25 mg today. Not 1.25 pills -- 1.25 MILLIGRAMS. Not that I am bragging, because I cannot believe I am still not able to pull the plug. Nooooo -- there's me, splitting my little 5 mgs of powder into quarters, then splitting the quarter into three doses....basically a little fingertip of dust.....pathetic. And believe it or not, I am still experiencing WRAB (albeit mild) -- occasional hot flashes, sneezing fits, watery eyes. I know it's not psychological, because I can't make myself have a sudden sneezing fit. I am soooo afraid to just jump off....even at this ridiculously low dose. But I am reducing .25 mg every day....I'm not holding at any particular dose, because this just has got to end. Yesterday I was able to get myself up and out....today I couldn't imagine going out. So at least there are occasional bright spots. I have a whole backlog of things I have not had the energy to get done during the taper....and I mean some serious things.....so I'm hoping there's no long protracted period of incapacitation after I get finished the taper.

As I mentioned, I've been very withdrawn from family/frienRAB during this time, but I've managed to "put on the happy face" and make some calls to a few strategic people, just so they don't suspect anything's wrong. I have mentioned I'm getting off my "pain medication" and "anti-inflammatories" due to my stomach problems, and that I'm more pain so that's why I've been kind of MIA. Plausible explanation, huh? Certainly have not told them I'm hooked on oxycodone and going through withdrawal! Ha, that's all I'd need -- that rumor circulating around.

Now, I must remind you, I am a total wimp who feels side-effects from everything. Miss Delicate System. You should have seen me trying to get off Cyrabalta, after having been on it only three weeks. Hence, even though I am on just a "dusting" of oxy, I will still not be surprised if I feel worse when I'm totally off it.

All right, I'm not gonna post again until I'm done. You guys have gotta be sick of hearing about this by now. Be done with it, woman! :-) (But don't get mad if I write again while I'm plodding along though, OK?)
 
Hey, you do what is working for your recovery. I like getting in the shower and scrubbing my head, washing my feet and brushing my teeth while the water runs over me. That is sometimes the highlight of my day. Silly but true. Hang in there girlfriend, all my juju goes to ya.
RR
 
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