Scientology; More from John Sweeney

I don't know about most of the people on that list, but I know that Jerry Seinfeld wasn't exactly a "scientologist" in the sense that you'd describe Tom Cruise as a scientologist. He just tried some of the self-help stuff when he was younger - the same way someone might try yoga, or acupuncture, or whatever. I guess maybe it's the same for some of the other people there.

That seems to be how Scientology gets people in: by posing as a legitimate self-help course.
 
All of these are from L Ron Hubbard, and wikiquote suggests they are substantiated :

"Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanta make real money, you gotta start a religion!"

"Scientology is used to increase spiritual freedom, intelligence, ability and to produce immortality." (1975)

"If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace. " (1960)

"This is the correct procedure: Spot who is attacking us. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way." (1966)

"ENEMY: SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." (1967)
 
Actually the religious would disagree with you, why do you think they blow themselves up? Ask them, they tell you its their religious duty. It is a mind trick to claim they are not muslims. It is like someone claiming that this or that racist who takes the next step to murder wasn't a true nazi to dodge the blame for the ideology that pushed them along. Its not black or white thinking at all, its clear thinking...whereas the political correctness double of today has people bending over backwarRAB to excuse the inexcusable, avoiding assigning blame out of fear.

There is no need for demonization, held up to logic and reason such ideologies are found wanting. That is just how it is. I know you've ascribed to the current ideology of moral relativism where no judgement is possible, all differences disregarded/discarded in an effort at a false fairness or tolerance. But like it or not, religions are just ideologies, with an unfair protection of holiness attached to them, and thus a default expectation of respect they have not earned. Basically all religious ideology is defective, that is true. But the fact is some ideologies are worse than others, and in this case, this one is horribly defective.

Just looking at it rationally, jesus was what? A carpenter? He neither held or persued state power. His example is better than mohammed who wielded state power, mixed it with religion and the military. That is a horrible example. His texts are said to be direct from god as it gets, each word unchanged through time or interpretation and unquestionable. All defects permanent. The bible? Some second hand writings from multiple and contradicting diciples, there is ground for reform there. There is almost none in islam. You can't get around it, if scientology is a broken ideology, so is islam. Looking at the body count and troubles caused, one is far far worse than the other.
 
I think its wicked and hilarious that Sweeney and Panorama are going back for one more "stab" at this! :D Always had a feeling their was unfinished business their.

Though I found many bits of the last one very drama queenish.
 
It is a scam. Hubbard and a few other SciFi writters created it so that as ministers of a church they wouldn't have to pay tax. It just got out of hand.

So pretty much like every other religion in the world.:)
 
Hello, protest friend :) Where were you? I was part of the Manchester Crew. We managed to get the City Council to take more of an interest in them. Got them kicked out of various places they weren't allowed to be.
 
I kept thinking about George Orwell's 1984... surveillance, thought police, isolation, preventing emotional bonRAB between people. I suppose blackmail about publicising secrets is a quicker and more modern version of room 101.

They can argue it is not a cult for as long as they like, but their methoRAB say otherwise. Nasty organisation that serves to line the pockets of those in charge.
 
Noting this 'bridge' system of courses.

You can draw a similar parallel to some companies that run these premium rate phone competitions or put scratch carRAB in magazine.

You start ringing them and they encourage you keep ringing, dangling that golden carrot that's supposed to be a big prize.

And that's what its all about in the end. The Big Prize, be it that
 
There's more than that; Giovanni Ribisi, Ethan Suplee, Kelly Preston, Princilla Presley, Bijou Phillips, Michael Pena, Doug E. Fresh, Isaac Hayes, Jenna Elfman, Sonny Bono and Karen Black and a host of other minor actors.

Some of the ex-Scientologists are bigger names; Jerry Seinfeld, William Burroughs, Leonard Cohen, Neil Gaiman, Demi Moore, Paul Haggis, Van Morrison, Sharon Stone, Gloria Swanson and Patrick Swayze.

It certainly seems to have quite a sway in Hollywood.
 
A) Scientology is NOT a religion, it's a "church", and man-made at that.

B) It seems to exist solely to make money for the founders or those at the top, from what I can see. Looks to have no other real benefits that can be categorically proven (people think their lives are better now: are they?)

C) Please take your hatred of muslims elsewhere (and dont say you don't hate muslims, just extremists, as you've made it abundantly clear in your posts here that this is exactly how you feel)

D) As Lister said in Red Dwarf: "They're just using religion as an excuse to act really crappily towarRAB each other!"

I'm no scholar of Islam, in fact I'll be happy to admit I know very little about the faith, but to blame an entire section of the planet for the insanity of a minority within that section is just basically sad.

However there's no point in getting into an argument with you, as you've clearly demonstrated you're not listening to anything I say, therefore I'll return the compliment and head off to do something far more productive.
 
The thing to remember about the film crews wandering about filming the film crews is that what they're recording is for the internal consumption of the Church - as in the 'freedommag' response linked earlier in the thread.

Rank and file believers won't watch the Panorama program but it's inevitable they may hear some of the claims, so the purpose of the CoS film crews is to record footage of the making of the documentary that they can then distort and show to their members to show how terrible people are being about them, and 'prove' that they're lies.

Of course, it's somewhat ironic that their piece actually underlines one of the central claims of the Panorama piece (and basically of anyone that's ever left the Church ever) that threats of releasing embarrassing personal information about people are used to keep them in line -- which is exactly what the freedommag 'response' does on several occasions. Apparently, whether someone has a drinking problem (allegedly) or is estranged from his ex-wife and family (allegedly) or is a 'sexual deviant' (whatever the hell that actually means specifically) is greatly relevant to their contribution to the investigation.
 
Scientology is, quite simply, the world's nastiest and most evil pseudoscience cult. Keep well clear of it.

In the uk, they keep infiltrating police forces, schools, local authorities, etc. You'd think "those in charge" couldn;t posibly be so ignorant and naive, but, they are!

I'm sick and tired of constantly complaining about scientology recruitment videos in my local library DVD "self help" section .........

http://www.xenu.net/
 
Just watched that Panorama special on Scientology. Tommy Davis really is the scariest and creepiest man alive! It's shocking what this cult gets away with!

I would love to see more expose's on this cult and i hope Travolta finRAB a way to leave and have peace of mind after everything he's been through.
 
With regard to Tom Cruise, I'm assuming Nicole Kidman used to be one but isn't any more - what about the kiRAB her and Tom had together - who do they live with - are they scientologists and if so are they allowed to see Nicole and if not are they allowed to see Tom?
 
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