Rebirth of the Rebellion - Code Geass R2 Talkback (SPOILERS)

I think it depenRAB on who we're talking about. I think Lelouch, Suzaku, C.C., and Kallen have been pretty consistent. When it comes to secondary cast, they're definitely mostly just there. It's pretty telling that in just a short nuraber of episodes we got more reason to like and care about Xing-Ke than about Todoh, who's been around since season 1. And I like Todoh. Mostly for who he is and what he represents though, not because of what he's said and done in the series. Jeremiah's another case where I thought his return would be stupid but they ended up making him at least a bit sympathetic.

Aside from that, yeah, a lot of characters seem to be there to move the plot. Does anyone care about Ougi and Villetta? I don't, particularly. Does anyone care about Nina's moral issues? I just think of her as a fool. What's with Rivalz's "OOOH MY GOD YOU'RE ALIVE!" moment? It's probably too late to do anything good with Milly now without distracting us from the main story.

However Geass is definitely, first and foremost, about Lelouch and Suzaku. That's been the truth since season 1. As such, even when certain characters don't stand out, I can still find it interesting insofar as what happens affects either of them. For instance Nunally isn't much beyond a sympathetic innocent, true, but her importance to Lelouch makes what happens to her have a great deal of impact. It's similar for Euphemia and what she meant to Suzaku. No, I didn't particularly like Shirley, but what her death did to Lelouch did matter to me. It may be that Geass indulges in a few too many "WTF" moments to keep the audience watching, but that doesn't make it all empty either. It's not like Destiny where they suddenly make a big deal out of somebody that nobody gave a damn about or even hated, like Meer. It can work if the whole narrative is seen in the context of how it's affecting and changing Lelouch and Suzaku, and how their actions in turn are shaping the world around them. I'll grant that, this being the case, Geass could have done with fewer secondary characters being around for the sake of raising the body count.
 
Lelouch can't really ever openly admit what happened with Euphie. "Oh yeah, her intentions were genuine. But I have this magical eye that makes people do things against her will and because of that she accidentally ended up going on a genocidal killing spree against all Japanese. So really that was my fault and- wait, where are you going? I thought we were allies! Come back!!....Oh good, you are coming back...with guns and knives....crap"
 
Ah, so I just watched the subbed episode.

I'm still confused about Li's motives. Is he for the Black Knights, against them, or just using them to fulfill his own vision? Oyy oy.
Rolo believes a promise from Lulu? He must have been out of his mind at the time. He's really not the best person to trust. Look's like little brother is soon going to be used, abused, and thrown away. I kind of feel sorry for him...

I fell in love with the use of that shield as a board. Ohh ominous Suzaku arrival ending, how you make me anxious for next week.
 
A ninja's main weapon was a katana or spear and the Shuriken and Kunai were just secondary tools. Shuriken were just used as a distraction in battle or left on the ground to create spike traps that mostly just caused pain and are not meant to kill anyone. Kuani were used a grappling hooks but could be used as a improvised knife in battle. But a sharped longer knife would be more effective in battle since then you could try to stab the vital organs of your opponent. A Kuani would be thrown in battle as a distraction. You hit someone with it and it hurts so they flinch or you miss but their eyes follow the projectile and in that brief opening you strike with your sword and kill your opponent.

A ninja was the special forces of their time and place. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
I watch the show but even I didn't want to admit that Ougi might be the one who'd step out against Lelouch. As much as they suggested it, there was always a chance that it wouldn't happen in such a way. Usually I just ignore Ougi until he's useful >_>
 
Because when we look around the world we see extremely competent people holding the highest positions in their countries?

Oh wait let me see I don't even have to go very far to find an incompetent world leader... I see me one down in D.C.
 
Speaking of Nunally, I have this strange feeling that Kaguya may somewhat turn later in the story. Yes, she's rather frivolous and has a nuraber of perks including prestige in the Black Knights, but I have this strangest feeling that she won't be exactly kind to Nunally or if she finRAB out that Lelouch is Zero, that may cause some dissent in the Black Knights.

Sure it may create a new twist that's rather late into the storyline, but you never know.

*doesn't really trust Kaguya*
 
Wow, that was a great episode. Like a nuraber of others I don't see the need for TOO much Suzaku hate, given that his reactions were somewhat expected. And I have to admit that it was rather sad given that things didn't turn out, and I'm looking forward to how Suzaku will handle the next episode with a new weapon on hand.

I want a Galahad action figure now. ;_;
 
...I still have a little faith left that this series will end well, but that could just be my blind optomisim talking. I WANT a good ending, I WANT them to suddenly turn around and be like 'you know what? No we aren't going to let this train burn to ashes. It might be derailed at the moment but that doesn't mean all the passengers on board are going to die'. [if you get my drift there].
I'll admit I had alot of faith in this series, and this season, and it's hard not to argue that yeah this show right about now isn't that wonderful, but I'm desperately hoping that they can at least give us a fitting ending that isn't a bunch of crap mixed together and shoved off a cliff like most of the show has been.
HC is right, R2 had alot of weight and sadly couldn't carry it. So far they haven't really picked them selves back up yet either. With only two episodes left I'm riding on a miracle. As long as they keep the big players alive at the end [other than Schneizel] I'll have no [large] regrets in watching Code Geass.

On top of that, alot of the characters felt unneeded or have gone forgotten. What was the point of Rolo again? What he accomplished could have easily been done with out. Same with Guilford, Cornelia, Xingke, the Knights, etc. I think they should have made all the characters in this show have a more definite goal or reason for existing in the first place other than being another notch on the death pole.
 
Hmm.

Perhaps his goal is to abdicate the throne after his victory, dividing up Britannia as his final act so that its territories can get into the UFN? Then he disappears from public view, leaving Suzaku and the others to take care of the rest? Maybe he's trying to stir up enough of an outcry to just flat out get rid of the monarchy. Though, I think he could have done that anyway without the act...he's done away with so much of the old Britannian society as it is.
 
23 was a pretty good ending indeed. I would have been happy with that even if it's not what Taniguchi was thinking of.

However, about the Kallen / Suzaku stuff, keep in mind that Taniguchi doesn't actually mention any specific subplots in the interview. Those are interpretations / expectations from the person who wrote that text.

Apparently the interview in its "purest" version, although the wording is a little rough, is available here:

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/22/taniguchi-interview-from-the-roman-album/

Taniguchi:
During production, to be honest, I wanted to finish it off. This was a personal intent, different from that of the production commitee.
So, although there were two recap episodes, these were not planned from the beginning. I wanted to go straight to 25 in one shot, but due to circumstances related to religion, two eps were cut, and it became a 23-ep series.
I thought, as director, I’d have to take responsibility for this, and retire from the industry.
This was the toughest time, but at that time, I received sufficient support from the viewers, and was able to produce eps 24 and 25. With this I was able to finish it off the way I had planned. I was very grateful.
But then, another distressing time. Ep 25 was written completely under the premise “In half a year, I’ll be able to continue with ep 26 in the same timeslot.” But that was ruined. If I think of it now, there are good sides to it to, but at the time, I became useless to the viewers.
There was an event for eps 24 and 25, with a comment from myself in the pamphlet. To be honest, at that time, I was completely broken (hahahah). I didn’t know what to write. I couldn’t apologize to the fans who put in the effort to come, and I couldn’t write an explanation either. After the event, my associates told me of the fan reaction. “Everyone just went ‘Ehhhhhhh?’” Don’t sound so happy saying that, idiot! (Hahahaha.) That was a really tough time.

—- You really made it through some tough circumstances.
Taniguchi:
I was really broken after the first season. Around then, I had talked with the scriptwriter KURATA Hideyuki and director of Baraboo Blade SAITO Hisashi. After that, during “Baraboo Blade”, there was episode referencing me, with a “I will retire” gag, that made me wonder just how well they could read my feelings. (Hahahahaha)

—- We’d like to hear about the last scene of ep 25.
Taniguchi:
Whether it was to be 50 episodes or cut off, I’d always planned to end it like that.
During composition, I’d also kind of planned to use it as the opening of ep 1. By the way, I threw out ep 1 completely five or six times right before it reached final manuscript stage. I’m surprised Mr. OKOCHI wasn’t angrier. (Hahahahah)

—- In what points did this impact Lelouch’s development?
R2’s framework through to the last episode is “What happens here, what does that mean next…” The path to that, what are the most effective ornamentations, amusements, subcharacters, and so on are decided by the scriptwriter. There are miscalculations, and sometimes characters do unexpected things.
Like Villetta or Arthur, or Bartley or Tamagi. (Hahahahah)
If the lack of explanations this time seems to worsen the tempo, think of it as a paring down. For example, episode 8, under the old structure, would have taken three episodes. “What route would the JLF have used to bring the Raiko there”, “What occured at that meeting”, “A detailed following of Zero’s actions” were also considered. An escape route was even decided, and used in the newscast at the beginning of ep 9.
Just by explaining this all, will the viewers be pleased?

—- A word for the fans.
Taniguchi:
Everyone, for your reception of this work, allowing me to produce the ending I’d first envisioned, and allowing me, who really should be unemployed, to be here, thank you very much.
I don’t want to impose a way of enjoying it, but as a suggestion, from here on, view things from the perspective of other characters. Suzaku, in particular, has hidden his motivations and actions quite well, so this can give quite a different impression.
“R2″ still has production work left to go, so I’ll try my hardest to get it exactly right.
It's on the same site, but you may have missed it.

Gundam 00 wouldn't have that kind of change since in that case the move is from one afternoon time slot to another afternoon time slot. It's the same audience. Not late night to afternoon, like the Geass move was. It imposes pressure from the executives to re-introduce the show to a different audience.

In the end, I would say that the net effect of this was to re-tool the first half of R2 for the new audience, but the second half is probably closer to what was intended to happen, even if it's a little bit rushed. We're seeing lots of death and destruction that contrasts quite explicitly with the wacky happiness of most earlier R2 episodes.

I still like the show and the rest can be debated.

On the bright side, it looks like R2's DVRAB are selling.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-08-23/bandai-visual-ships-100000+geass-r2-no.1-discs
 
Gundam is modern Shakespeare. Tomino said so. And surely he can't be biased.

What does Geass have? A main character who welcomingly breaks the mold, a story that can be viewed from many angles and some fun mecha designs. Disgraceful!
 
Some food for thought...

Note: Don't read unless you have read the future episode summaries.
Who do you think is going to save Lelouch while he is in the World of C? Speculation is Marianne, C.C. and...Anya, which actually has been said through someone who posted what was going to happen in 13, and it did indeed happen, so it's not proven, but he seems VERY reliable. Your thoughts?
 
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