OpenSource P2P Debate, it's about choice

This is what I've taken out of the LimeWire source code, which is unlike the source of other clients, open for everyone. (I'm not a programmer, so correct me if I'm wrong).

If all LimeWire clients are clustered together, it's easier for the leaf nodes to find new Ultrapeers in case a connection breaks. LimeWire Ultrapeers do not forward all pings to their leaves, but only pings that were marked as coming from an ultrapeer. When the Ultrapeers are grouped, it's logical, that each leaf node will receive many more ultrapeer pings.

In order for LimeWire leaf nodes to stay connected, it is better if the Ultrapeers are grouped, so the leaf nodes won't have to connect to normal hosts which would result in increased traffic for the leaf nodes.
 
Please stop flooding the thread in a lame attempt to bury it. You could have combined all those replies in one post, unless you are technically challenged that is.
Good thing BearShare removed the ability to block, people were using it to move around the network and get away from BS nodes. Did he take out the ability to remove connected nodes yet? That would let people block BS also. Wouldn't want that!
I hear he has removed lots of features that allow people to see what is going on in the network, could he be trying to hide all his little tricks?
Another reason he needs to start his own private network.
On top of that he is now identifying his clients with strange headers that may contain computer specific information and identifies BS with some sort of encryption so people can prefer BS over other clients for search hits.
Why bother thinking up a way that those "other" clients could use too, to solve this "problem" with query hits?
People have been telling him from the start that he would get more market share simply by being nice to his users, but he likes screwing with the network instead.
Again, this isn't a BearShare issue, but BearShare is a good example of what happens when you let greed slip into Gnutella. If it isn't stopped now it will get worse.
 
Oh btw Unregistered, the Limewire's superpeer concept is unnecesarry complicated in my eyes (so is the 3 step handshake). Anything else you want to badmouth about my technical background? *yawn*
 
Originally posted by plasticparadox
> What it all boils down to is that by participating in the OpenSource p2p, you are hurting users' ability to share files. That fact is fairly clear, I'm sure.
I don't see it that way because there are too many good free clients out there they can switch to in a minute and keep on sharing. In the end we lose no one.

>You didn't answer my first two questions. And again, they "use" you in a very indirect manner.
Since they spy on other users and put adware in their programs, I choose to keep them off the network. I think it's bad to do that to your users, so I choose to block them and refuse to contribute to their product, even if it's "indirect".

All political change requires sacrifice.

It's my view that if Gnutella started off with a rule of no pay for clients (with hindsight), the free clients would have been at this point much sooner and more people would be using/supporting them. Now that the CPU cycle and file suport is going to enrich the pay for clients, they can advertise, hire people to spread the word, and so on which disadvantages the free clients.

> What I wanted to make perfectly clear is that the OpenSource p2p Network's existence is contrary to the recognized standards of the OpenSource movement.
I don't think it is. We couldn't modify this client to give people this choice without it being open source. And we give out the source of our modifications, and that would be considered under the GPL.
Open source & GPL is about the source code and how authors can restrict it's use, not user choice or what the program does.
You have the choice to use your open source word processor to create flyers trying to stop people from going to a particular store or business if you didn't like what that business does.
If you are talking about the name, the clients on the network are open source code and free to use, thus the name.
You could start your own network today that only allows movies or mp3s. It's now possible with the new software changes.

Blocking is also good for those who create a college network LAN that doesn't connect to the outside internet by accident. If a sysadmin sees too much outside traffic he may choose to block access completely.
 
Moak gone too far? Isn't any company distributing spyware an unethical company? Because Limewire is doing some help for the network, you still welcome them. Now they cluster users away from other and you still welcome them. What's next, how far may Limewire go? I agree Limewre is not the big evil, but they gone too far. Sorry afisk.
The tolerance level from Gnutella developers is unbalivable high, as you can see with Vinnie. He can do everything. [ironic start]But there is no greed in Gnutella.... no![ironic end]

I don't want to be a member of GDF. Limewire please stop the greed, stop becoming a second Bearshare and become someone we like again. If not, don't support Limewire/Bearshare.

The greed is destroying the integrity of Gnutella development since months. Open your eyes.
 
I don't come to web fori often and I hate them, so I won't bother you too much.

With all due respect, I've read this whole thread and it is completely stupid: people are throwing arguments over and over and don't listen to each other. Repeating one's arguments, rephrasing etc... is of no use when the other party is not listening.

Now that I got your attention, let me state that I for one do not care the least whether there are for-profit software on Gnutella or not as long as the files those node share are truly shared to anyone that can find them and request them.

I think afisk's point on the Ultrapeer clustering makes sense. They're not really clustering LW clients together, they're clustering Ultrapeers because this is the only way to maximize the horizon with today's Gnutella protocol and limitations. This is so easy to prove that I'll let that as an exercise to Moak.

As far as the Open P2P network goes, I'm not interested for now. If it becomes a major network, I'll make sure my client can become a bridge between OP2P and Gnet so that people find each-other's file and that we don't have two networks stupidely sharing files in their own selfish way. Until then, I wish them good luck, but I think it will die in a few months.

Finally, I think LW and BS deserve some amount of recognition for what they brought to Gnutella. Sure, they made mistakes, but so did I, and so will everyone out there.

Leaving the GDF was the best thing I ever did, because I think what matters is what goes on the network. Instead of discussing forever, I've decided to make my own features or adapt the existing features as I implement them (to fix any broken part and glue back both pieces). However, I communicate to the GDF in a write-only manner so that everyone knows what I'm doing and can cooperate if they wish.

I encourage everyone to do the same, and then natural selection will elect the best features. There will be no pain, and no bad experiences. Even if your own features do not catch up, you'll have learned by doing them and won't repeat the same mistakes.

So long.

Raphael
 
In the end this is a pathetic attempt by a bunch of people who do not understand the ideals of P2P or gnutella and do not care nor respect the rights that others have on the network only their own selfishness.

You are not making gnutella "free" your taking away freedom from those without the same views as yourselves..

No one has the right to force their opinions on other users. Which is exactly what they are doing by blocking and making ridculeous demands. Especially since no other developer has any objections..

But in the end i dont think that the majority of people are taking anyone seriously. The only thing that keeps repeating is the same unproven and really ridculeous accusations against bearshare and personal attacks against its developer. And great exgerations of the truth and rantings which make no sense...

I only hope that other intelligent people realize the seriousness and stupidity of actions like blocking that it takes away freedom of choice for users and how ridculeous and counter-productive ideas like forcing all commerical programs off the network is.. and really the behavior and manner in which the opponets of such plans present themselves..
 
As I said before, the way I understand it is you may create a derivitive work, and even charge for it. However, because of the GPL all source code must be released, so making a free version will never be impossible.

And yes, you can get the free source code from www.limewire.org. Of course they don't distribute a free (and ad-free) compiled program on limewire.com, they wouldn't make any profit that way. But you can search for clean Limewire, which if I remember correctly is hosted on a geocities site somewhere (though it gets subjected to heavy loads).
 
it was deperatly needed. good luck with a surprising inefficient ultrapeer network. Gnutella wants to be the slowest filesharing system the next 12 months again, advantage RIAA will find better targets.
 
Re: wierd physical threats:
I don't see how you can consider this a physical threat. I'm not even in your country. You seemed to understand my reference earlier - I am underlining that my instincts seemed correct
http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9888&perpage=15&highlight=topmoxie&pagenumber=8

I think you are acting like a kid caught with some drugs. I got your quote wrong, here it is worded correctly, perhaps this will jog you memory worded correctly:
"That's it, man. Really." AFisk 04-10-2002 04:45 PM

Now, what I am saying is that this eTraffic 'sub-bundle' was never mentioned. It has a different name to TopMoxie - to me looks like 'a different thing'.

So the list over at
http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10733&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

should now be amended to

Previous:
Cydor
eZula
Gator
BonziBuddy
clicktillyouwin

Current:
Cydoor
TopMoxie
eTraffic


**
Adam, I sure hope they gave you a raise and/or bonus - no-one should have to defend themselves personally in the line of duty in a day job. As far as I am concerned, you are Limewire, limewire is you, because I am talking to you as a representative of Limewire.

You shouldn't have your personal reputation put on the line over the fact that your boss requires you to install unscrupulous software on people's machines, that is his business. I would have walked long ago.

So please don't misconstrue anything I say to you as personal, it is not (except maybe this particular advice beginning at the double-asterisk '**' and ending here).

Nos

'TopMoxie' thread continues over at
http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10733&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

btw who's this Michael Hefner? Could you please provide a link if it's important, since you seem to have already looked up the post you are referring to.
 
So time to get off the net (your ISP may be providing service to someone who uses BearShare, and by paying your ISP you are indirectly supporting BS.) Oh wait... time to take back the computer for a refund (BS users may be using parts from the same manufacturer, and you wouldn't want to support a company that helps BS.)

Come to think of it, you'd have to quit your job, stop paying bills, and stop spending money completely. All those things contribute to a global economy, without which there would be no BearShare.

When you think about it it is really amazing what you're indirectly supporting.
 
> Superpeers and normal clients (leaves) will be mixed, so there
> is no need to cluster away clients.

Yes, there is a need. That need is to reduce bandwidth utilisation and increase the search horizon for shielded leaf nodes.

> Please don't flood or badmouth my technical knowledge

O, you don't like criticism? That's just too bad. You obviously lack technical knowledge of Ultrapeers and I have proven that.
 
That's a really good question. As I understand it, under the GPL any derivitive work must release the source code that was used. Isn't Limewire Pro basically a derivitive work of the free version?

Then again, Limewire Pro may contain some code altered enough to no longer require coverage under the GPL from the free version. In which case they wouldn't be required to release those parts of the code.

[P.S.]
As I understand it a link to download the source isn't required anywhere, but the source must be available by request (example: asking for via email.)
 
The problem of gnutella (greed) could maybe reduced to one word:

lobbying

The guys from GDF found each other about a year ago, worked together, improved something and are proud of what they did. Now they defend each other also if one or two member are a bit selfish. They tolerate as long as they still can participate somehow. If someone found a improvement, they are telling each other compliments and make it a standard, it works somehow. very human. frustrating for every new developer or every developer that is fallen from the noble table of the GDF. The GDF gained the status of a high society, ignoring what's going on outside. With that perspective in mind I can perfectly understand Limewire, they really believe they are doing a good work, there is no harming greed and Bearshare is a cool business alliance.

Unfourtunately Gnutella is not GDF only and GDF decisions outside the GDF do not look that bright, so do Bearshare and Limewire look not that bright. How many users and devleopers do need to complain until the GDF is becoming more open and a true gnutella developer community. No, Limewire is not the big evil... nobody told this... but some non-GDF developers do not tolerate their politics (as they don't tolerate bearshare).

It must be a suprise for you, but things have to change - or - Gnutella development will be splitted more and more. Don't close your eyes and talk about unimportant megapeer details, the network is splitting now.
 
I have no feelings on this subject one way or the other ,so plz forgive me for trolling,yet I find it ironic that over @ the OpenSource P2P website they have listed Bearshare.nets various host caches as an entry point into Gnutella....am I missing something here?

Having said that though I wish you guys well in trying to achieve your goal,choice is a good thing to have.
 
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