Olympic torch through London et al

Squeamous said:
I don't think any part of this sorry tour de farce is funny and I never said I did.

Actually the discussion in all the newspapers this morning was the behaviour of the police, not the protestors who in the end didn't hurt a soul.
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I beg to differ - I thought the plod leaping off his bike was class. :glag:
 
Alien5 said:
"thugs" grabbing the torch seems to be the only thing that you like to talk about, and you don't seem to know about that either.

the London protesters did use the non-violent approach to lie down in the street, it worked because the police then had to make them take the torch to its destination by bus.

i don't think you've watched or read much news about the protests in London or Paris have you? i sat and watched a lot of news reports and articles as i could today and yesterday.

you keep talking about a "thug grabbing a torch" maybe you didn't see or read enough.
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Hmmm... maybe a discussion about the laws of the land are over your head old chap, never heard of "Obstructing the Queens highway" ? See what happens is a bunch of criminals gather together and all break the law at the same time, by blocking law abiding citizens access and use of the highway (that's a road)...

Nah!!! Bored again...
 
Squeamous said:
Market forces? You mean obstruct trade?
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No quite the opposite, we should be trading with them big time and we should be encouraging other nations to trade with them... for a number of reasons.

Firstly - Trading economies do deliver real improvement to the lives of the people.

Secondly - Trading economies become dependent on trade, and at some point the idea of anyone stopping that trade become a major threat to the political stability of the state, when that tipping point happens with China the political regime has to adapt to ensure it prevents interference with trade less any interference brings about political unrest amongst the people... and with several billion people to keep happy you can bet they'll start to listen to other countries.

Thirdly - Trading with them will encourage an economy to grow throughout the entire country (eventually) This will leave Tibet in a much better position should they ever gain their freedom, with something of their own to provide income for the state and the people, and to provide the state with trading partners, who in turn will have an interest in that country remaining a trading partner with them.

Fourthly - The people of Tibet who currently live in exile will be much more likely to return, if their country has a trading economy, they will still be able to maintain their external associations whilst bringing the skills they have gained in other countries into the Tibetan economy, not to mention the contacts they have made who could also be used to help Tibet after independence.

China has more to lose in the long run if we trade with it... but I'm not sure they've figured that out yet... sssshhhhh!!!!! ;)
 
You're arguing over the most effective form of protest, like.

That's all relative to whether or not the media gives two fucks.

A Buddhist monk self-immolating will probably get you a day and a half of intermittent reportage but a Buddhist monk trying to extinguish a flame will get you just the same.

There's an inevitable ironing in there somewheres.
 
Eh? What fake guns? A luminous pump action water pistol you mean? Yeah, I bet the police get really nervy around schools in summer.

Perhaps if the police jumped en masse on fewer people when they're not struggling or resisting, before kneeing them in their backs they'd get fewer people dying in police custody.
 
Alien5 said:
changing the subject yet again, must be brushing up on his current affairs.
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Really ?

So come one then oh smart alien one, what different subjects have I covered ?

As far as I know, it's been about thuggish behaviour and how that has served the interests of the people of Tibet poorly...
 
Alien5 said:
thats your imaginary world im talking about, not mine. :lol:
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I think you might want to think about your words and the things you imply with them old chap... see for my world to be 'perfect' and 'thug free' implies recognition by you that your world isn't :lol:
 
Biggles said:
So the Tibetan chap running in front of the torch and happily waving his national flag at the camera who got jumped on by the policeman and had his flag removed was a victim of thuggery? No law against waving a flag that I am aware of and he wasn't interfering with the torch.

The BBC and Sky ran hours of coverage on the protests in London and the ongoing protests in Paris and San Fransisco are keeping the issue at the top of the news. This is not a bad thing is it?. Yes it should be peaceful but that doesn't mean the protesters should apologise for being there. I think most of us know what thuggery looks like and some middle aged chap making a political protest by making a grab for a torch isn't it. The twonk who threw an egg at Prescott a few years ago might be classed as a thug as indeed might be Prescott. Connie Huq was considerably more sorted and philosophical about it than you appear to be. Are you on a wind up or something? :shifty:
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I'm not even sure what the actions of one person have to do with the validity of the protest as a whole anyway, even if that person were behaving badly, which he wasn't.

Theoretically the torch belongs to all mankind anyway :shifty:.
 
Almost forgot the et al part.

So I'm watching the telly this morning and Richard dawkins is on talking about religion with a studio audience, and they eventually get onto the subject of the existence of the Devil. Someone actually says....get this....

'Well the devil must exist because how else do you explain Hitler?'

:dry:

Then tonight on that Louis Theroux programme I'm watching grown men act like they achieved some sort of epic victory of man over beast because they cornered a big goat and shot it in the head.

I'm too sensitive for this world :cry:
 
No I said you were exaggerating a very mild event. If you're going to start doing that 'leading' point making you love so much you can just give it up now because I'm too smart to fall for it. I can see it ratcheting up from a mile away.
 
manicgeek said:
Now come on Squeamous, you missed the opportunity to make a joke out of my dislike of seeing a young woman attacked on the streets of my country... I'm sure you can find a way to make that funny can't you ?
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No, I fully exploited the opportunity to make fun of the fact that you think you saw a woman attacked in the street with my 'Ghandi' comment. I miss a lot of things but that kind of opportunity is too easy to miss. I'm surprised you missed it.

Did you know that every day women are attacked on the streets of your country, in actual real life...I mean not in your head. I'm sure any one of those would look upon your insistance that Konnie Huq was attacked with a measure of disbelief.
 
I don't agree with much of that MG.

The tipping point has already been reached. The Chinese can't run their economy without trade. They know however, that their partners are unlikely to take that way because in the end greed is too powerful. There is very little that is so important it will get in the way of profit. The economies of the countries that trade with China rely on it as well as China's, and any government is going to be worried about the effect reducing trade has on itself. The more trade we do the farther bogged down we get and the less likely it is that anything willl happen with Tibet.

As to the issue of wealth, I'm not sure the Tibetan people would sacrifice their way of life for cash. If you made them financially comfortable they would still be an oppressed people. And you haven't proposed a way for them to gain independance once they're comfortable.....you just say it will 'leave them in a better position for independence'. Do you think one day China will just change its mind randomly? How long will that take? Will Tibet have lost all it's indivuality by then?

Regarding exiled Tibetans, what stops them going back isn't poverty. It's the risk of torture. These people are political agitators and China deals with those ruthlessly. Money isn't going to change that.
 
exactly - my world's not in the least bit perfect, i didn't say it was, i grew up in 70s 80's and 90's London, I also went to school with people affected by the riots, there was nothing perfect & thug free about it.
 
Ah! I forgot I'm a member of the weaker sex in your opinion aren't I, you can analysis my behaviour because you're a woman and tell me what I'm going to do and say can't you :lol:
 
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