MPEG4 Transition - What does it mean for BEV subscribers?

  • Thread starter Thread starter I_Want_My_HDTV
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I had an opportunity to examine some of the MPEG4 DN signals and was appalled that several quoted as HD were coming in as 720i.
I wonder if that's the same as the HD-Lite that DTV gets flamed for?
Sure there was also 720p and 1080i.
So I watched a few minutes of "Ultraviolet" on StarzHD in MPEG4 1080i and in spite of very very strong signals, I saw frequent pauses and some localized and full screen pixelization.
So IMHO while MPEG4 can deliver increased capacity, I can't say, given my limited exposure that it's anything to write home about.
It may all depend on what sources you are accustomed to.
Myself, I find a slight edge with all 1080i BDU quality, but that's just me.

Of couse this may not speak to Bell's implementation, which could be better or worse.
All we know is where they get their receiver technology from.
Encoders, uplink and operations are possibly quite different.
 
It's ridiculous to think that Bell will sit idle until 2009 or 2010. For heaven sakes, they'll be out of business long before anyone waits that long!

Nimiq 5i (aka DTV1R) is already at 72.5. It's just a matter of when BEV gets access to it. DTV is using it right now. They don't have to wait for the new satellite to launch. There are a few possible options, MPEG4, 8PSK (short term solution), or use the 72.5 slot. They're certainly not out of options so stop being so pessimistic.

On a related note, Dish just announced they'll be launching two new satellites in December and will duplicate their entire programming in MPEG4 on just these two satellites, which will be available with only an 18" dish. Clearly Dish is serious about MPEG4, and since BEV uses all the same technology, we have a good reason to be optimistic!

-Mike
 
32 Transponders per Ku band satellite.
Each transponder can handle:
2 MPEG2 QPSK HD/Tp = 64 HD
3 MPEG2 8PSK HD/Tp = 96 HD

4 MPEG4 QPSK HD/Tp = 128 HD
6 MPEG4 8PSK HD/Tp = 192 HD

This of course is if they move all SD off of 82 and they can use all 32 Tp's.

The MOST efficient way is to fill a TP with 2 or 3 HD and then squeeze in some SD/radio in the slack space left over.

You might even use 1 or 2 HD /tp and then spread them across 82/91 filling in SD as you go.
 
I just hope Bell doesn't do what Starchoice is doing, charging their customers for receiver upgrades so they can continue receiving content they're already getting. Ridiculous! I can't imagine Bell will sink that low but who knows.

-Mike
 
You could be right, but that's not quite what Bell has stated.

Nimiq 4 is slated for launch in 2008 and in any case isn't it designed to replace the aging Nimiq 1? The repurposed back-up satellite, Nimiq 4i, currently sits in 91 orbit serving HD and International channel customers.

Key point here is it just replaces existing service; it doesn't occupy a new orbit or turn on any extra spectrum (transponders). So it's net effect on HD is about zero.

Telesat press release here:
http://www.telesat.ca/news/releases/2006/06-01-e.asp

I was under the impression Nimiq 5, slated for 2009 launch, was the one moving to the new 72 orbit. Other public statements have suggested it will be operational in 2010.

Telesat press release here:
http://www.telesat.ca/news/releases/2007/07-01-e.asp

And these time lines ... 2008 (Nimiq 4 replacing current capacity), 2009 (Nimiq 5 launch) and 2010 (Nimiq 5 operational date) ... really have no impact on MPEG-4 migration until possibly 2010 -- following the plans currently announced.
 
More like EV is held back by E*. E* is very slow to develop and supply reliable new hardware. That seems to be a general problem in the satellite and cable industries though. It appears that these companies are unable to develop reliable hardware or even develop any hardware in a reasonable time frame. Free-to-air STB manufacturers are making E* look like fools. Maybe they should start developing open standards for these products and let the big Asian manufacturers supply them. It's not like encryption needs to be obscure to be secure, otherwise HD-DVD and Blue-ray would be pulled by the big studios.
 
there's definitely new mpeg4 capable receivers coming this year. but what we really dont know is when mpeg4 HD channels will start to come around. could be this year, could be next, could be 2009. thing is, i'd rather wait a few months for one of these new receivers to keep my setup as future-proof as possible. then again, the rentals seem to be most popular right now, and those could be swapped if the need for mpeg4 content is there.

i think their big problem is adding new hd content as it seems its been difficult for them recently
 
Wouldn't it have made more sense to just send those details to Hugh to publicly update the basically-correct info in his original posting and clear up any consumer confusion, rather than just telling him he's wrong? Do they think we would be more likely to believe a dealer or salesperson telling us not to be concerned???
 
These have been in use by other customers for some time. If you check the signal strengths on an EV receiver, you will see that they are locked out in the firmware. It might be possible to claw them back but it would probably cost EV money to reassign the services to another satellite, assuming space is available. Moving them to 72.5 is one option but a spare satellite would have to be found, moved and approved. These transponders could give EV 6 more HD channels at 82. That might be enough for the rest of 2007.
 
You can almosty bet they will.
They have to for competative reasons.
When Bell raised their rates a while back, *c followed suit, even though they really didn't need to because they have been turning a good profit for a while now, but did so to remain competative.

Had they not, the price difference would have been so great that a stampede of customers would have showed up and that's NOT something they actually want.
Since each new customer actually costs them money initially, it would be a drain on capital and by matching the increase thay manage their growth.

So from Bell's perspective, if *c can get away with it and most seem to think its a fair deal, a cheap upgrade and no trade-in required then Bell will quite likely try and execute something similar and why wouldn't they?

The details are all in how it's presented and the execution.
Which based on recent events around here could turn out to be troublesome.
 
I suppose you might also say the same thing about the young gang member in the very flashy car and all the women around him, but we all know he got their by very nefarious means, drugs, prostitution.

Where as the normal guy the same age is driving a more moderate vehicle with just his gal.

I don't see to many in the world community making the same kind of statements about Micro$oft's rise to to success when their checkered past and dubious business practice are put into the light.

They are all birds of a feather and rotten to the core!

As for *C being in business, maybe not if the traders are able to broker a deal and bring in Canwest and Shaw, the DBS/DTH operations might be merged or all converted to *C subs, end of story.

It's all just speculation anyways.
 
You might be right.
While it was pretty beta s/w when I was shown 1 of the new HD MPEG4 FTA boxes with add as big a hard drive as you need unit, I was reasonably impressed, and this from a guy that designed those things for a living.
(HD PVR's, not FTA's)

I think some of the units have or could have ISO card slots as well, so maybe if Bev wasn't so anal, they could allow them on their system with a secure ROM card and get the hell out of the hardware business and focus on being a television provider.

If you can't beat em' and it appears they can't, then perhaps they should consider joining them.

It's quite sad actually knowing these new MPEG4 receivers exist in some home years before Bev subs can get their own.
 
Nimiq1, thats exactly it

the management probably does not understand exactly what mpeg4 means. most of the sales people probably will not get it completely either. but also its not a term that would affect the general public, quite possible confuse them.

obviously its going to affect new and current HD subscribers for bev. if bell speaks openly about it, and try to keep it simple for the public that new mpeg4 receivers are an update to allow them to continue to lead canada in the HD market, and that they will assist with receiver swaps or upgrades, then it could be a good thing.
 
Arr you need to go back and do some more research. The resolution that some thing is in is produced before it ever gets to the MPEG encoder whether it is MPEG4 or not. The pauses you mentioned could have been caused any where in the stream from the hard drives at the studio to your STB. Just because it paused didn't mean the issue did or didn't have any thing to do with the MPEG4 encoding.
 
For Bell ExpressVu, executing should be a rather simple decision. you either want to stay in business or you don'.
I guess we know where they stand in times of uncertainty.

Now a cableco is different.
They in many cases also have to examine their Internet, Wireless, Telephony and Video operations and determine were money is best spent, so for those subs with cablecos falling behind in HD's, it's only because their focus has been elsewhere.

Western subs in Shaw land were severely penalized in the HD room due to a telephony focus and their sister *c was and still is a fair bit ahead of them, again, due to only having a single focus.
 
That being said, I can't see a new receiver being introduced that is MPEG 4, and Bell switching all HD programming to that format, leaving those stuck with time left on their contract with a HD box, that cant do HD. I don't know much about the technical aspects of the boxes or compression format, but I think they will have to have everyone swapped to MPEG 4, before they quit broadcasting in that format. Expressvu's silence on this matter is somewhat disturbing, and I think by not acknowledging the boxes will do more harm than good. I didn't realize that this site, and it's members had such power to affect sales of HD equipment as implied by the Bell rep, but silencing/censoring any discussion that is not a glowing review or positive, is not the way to go.
 
So what have they done with all the MILLION$ already collected in the last few rate hikes?

Seems to me they may be passing on costs already and you aren't getting much bang for YOUR dollar!

Or the programmers have caught on and the fee to Bev is and should be higher than it is to other BDU's & SRDU's that operate secure systems.

We really need to take this discussion over to the piracy thread, sorry.:o
 
Wow. The thread heads to the "evil Microsoft" angle. Next thing you know, ARR will compare BEV to the Nazis, and the journey shall be complete.

Back on topic - again, I don't see how BEV can handle the transition well enough to satisfy EVERYONE, but the transition has to take place just the same. *C is forcing many of their subscribers to purchase new boxes just to get the same programming, so it goes to show you that these things need to take place.
 
there definitely seems like a pretty big upgrade in terms of bev receivers is coming soon. i've heard about several meetings regarding a "substantial upgrade" to new mpeg4 capable receivers over the next 6 months for hd subscribers. it could very well be rumours, but it seemed pretty serious from what i heard

the other thing is if bev is changing hd or 82 to mpeg4, they still have tons of stock in new 6100 and 9200 around. not sure if its still be manufactured, but existing stock is high. 6100 for SD purposes seems pointless, but 9200 for SD like someone mentioned earlier wouldnt be bad since it has dual tuner and would get great amount of recorded SD material.

it'll definitely be interesting with nimiq4 coming into play and nimiq5 over the next few years possibly bringing alot of international programming
 
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