MPEG4 Transition - What does it mean for BEV subscribers?

  • Thread starter Thread starter I_Want_My_HDTV
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I don't know why you are all saying that people will need to replace (at their own expence) their 9200/6100 recievers with new equipment. It would actually be against canadian law for them to do this. I'm in the home theatre retail buisness with a large company and know that bell in fact plans to spend about $100M to replace existing customers HD recievers. This may sound like alot but it really isn't considering the fact that it will allow them to air up to 150 HD channels full time, which in-turn will increase their profits. Not only would it be illigal for bell to force their customers to absorb the cost of replacement themselves, but would end up costing them to lose alot of customers to other providers. I hope this information helps.
 
Of course they have tons of stock, they have bought most of it from dishnetwork (not echostar) when Dishes HD customers upgraded to MPEG 4 receivers (these are "cardless receivers, so check if there is a card in it, if so, its refurbished... I dont know why the refurbished have cards, but they do)
They got a great deal on them, and want to pass the savings on to their "ignorant" customers (Nice one DHC on educumacating the public, and ruining their HD sales! How dare you!)
It wouldnt have been so bad, if they had them available for the SuperBowl, when people couldnt get a HD box if their life depended on it, but, I guess, better late than never...
 
Nothing is special about 8PSK. It's just that the DN implementation is Turbo coded FEC 8PSK which IS special to DN.
So if the box had that ability inherently, then it would be a clear admission that it's prime purpose was targeted at DN piracy and the units would be stopped from entering the continent.

By omitting such a proprietary feature and then allowing end users to enable that technology after the fact through either authentic DN tuners salvaged from DN6000's or the upcoming crop of 3rd party clone tuners and interfaces, they effectively circumvent any rules violations at the point of import and distribution.

The chips inside the box already handle MPEG4 and MPEG2, so if Bell were to go to stock MPEG4 over their current QPSK transmissions then no additions would be required to watch all of Bev's treasured HD content.

And that's entirely conceivable given the state of the Nimiq fleet being somewhat impaired and favouring the East, that with the higher required link budget needed to maintain adequate signals in some regions, even with new sats, it may be their only course of action.

If they also elect to go with 8PSK and/or Turbo FEC, then addon tuners are required.

While their are legit FTA HD signals out there as indicated in other posts used to enlighten Bev Fan, there are all standard QPSK, so no 8PSK tuners are required.

The situation has caused the supply and demand engine to engage and the former $60 tuners began to hit the $400 mark on ebay, just like the ROM102 price gouge from $80 to $300 following the FTA ECM that took most down for several months.

With the proliferation of HD across N.A. and the voracious appetite for it in the much larger U.S. market, we can well expect these types units to be very attractively priced by the time Bev is able to consider an MPEG4 rollout.

Prices for basic FTA's have dropped to near 1/2 from opening prices and even the first HD FTA units have dropped hundreds of dollars in anticipation of increased market competition.
 
It seems to me EV plan to do nothing on the HD front in the next 2 years, except maybe add CBC HD West. Very, very bad news. They are already not the leader, but they may also turn last pretty soon.
 
And who is to say BEV won't swap the HD receivers for MPEG4 capable ones too? Or that they'll use the 72.5 slot? Or that they will use 8PSK short term? Like I said, many options.

-Mike
 
ARR: Could you please show me any company, anywhere, in the existance of the universe where Marketing & Engineering are on the same page? Or even in the same book?
 
So it would seem that:

1. The BDU MUST use the supplied digital signal in it's original format, no 1080i to 720p down sampling.

2. Allegedly Bev IS doing just that.

So, what remedy is there for unsuspecting viewers short of packing up and finding a more honest provider?

This just might be part of the piracy culture that Bev seems to harbour and certainly explains a lot.

Psst! "We best not do too much about piracy because we break more than a few regulations ourselves, maybe nobody will notice..."
 
MPEG-4 is an important step for Digital Television in general, not just to Bell. I think Bell is going to lead the way in Canada, mostly out of necessity, but the cable companies will follow suit eventually. There are significant advantages and costs savings to the smaller file size and data stream MPEG-4 offers, particularly for video on demand type services. Of course the smaller file sizes are an instant bonus for PVR owners! I'm looking forward to it.

-Mike
 
At the moment, Bell has 43 HD "full-time" channel slots for an Eastern, or Western, viewer. TMN + MPix are for the East; MC1 + MC2 are for the West.

Also, while Bell has about 5 French HD channels, how relevant are those in the West? How relevant, in fact, in the East except in PQ and parts of ON and NB?

You simply can't squeeze 65 channels out of a 43 channel universe without making some major concessions.

As pointed out, almost all broadcasters, except ABC and FOX, are sending out 1080i HD signals; yet Bell ExpressVu happily downconverts to -- or at least mucks about with the signal to reach -- 780p in most cases. MPEG-2 requires about 19 mbps bandwidth to deliver 1080i; all Bell HD is MPEG-2; Bell has around 13 mbps per channel available; this is the reason is prefers the lower HD resolution.

There are three transponders on Sat 82 not in use last time I looked; perhaps these can be lit up with the backup satellite to deliver 6 more HD. CBC West HD has been promised; what will the other five be? Videotron has several French services Bell doesn't carry; Rogers has several English services Bell doesn't carry; and Movie Central might like to add a channel or two. And High Fidelity has received licenses to create more programming loops of pretty pictures of "How I Spent My Summer Vacation" and "Basket Weaving for Pros"; I wonder if they will use up bandwidth for a few more of those?

Bell has said it: MPEG-4 transition requires a significant number of MPEG-4 receivers in customer homes and that won't happen till 2009. A new satellite is set for 2008, but that replaces the current 91 bird which is ready to retire. The next satellite in 2009/2010 might offer a third set of signals at 72 but no one has said if Bell has EXTRA spectrum or if this has to be shared with the 91 bird, for example, to create an East-West set of signals catering to more local audiences.

Count any way you like: take off your shoes and socks to help, if necessary. But until Bell upgrades to 8PSK or MPEG-4, there is no quick fix out of the approximate 43 channel per East/West customer box. 65, 100, "up to 150", and beyond is a mirage.
 
I am curious on how you determined that Bell bought the stock from Dish (DTH programming provider) not EchoStar (hardware mfg and seller)? Even they are owned by the same people...they are definately different sides of the business.
 
one idea that was already proposed was to offer you to "dump" programs onto a portable device (like an Ipod) so you could watch your tv programs and movies on your portable device...great for people going away for a while, or who take public transit.
 
Poet has hit the nail on the head, as people come off contracts they will be shopping for new HD, the most HD, HD PVR`s that work. Bev has some good points that in IMHO their PVR is the best. Just go over and read the 530 at Shaw/Star and see what a mess that unit has caused and keeps on messing up, problems with Motto equipment across the board. They have to have a plan and must execute it, but knowing Bev/Bell they will mess up parts of it they will most likely be the most important aspects of the plan.

Bottom line the compeitiors will take all they can get from BEV if they follow their past history, we can hope that new owners (if sold)may help in turning this once great company arround.
Time will tell!
 
It means a future frought with fear, uncertanty and doubt about when it's coming, what it will costs and what new HD if any will arrise as a result in the initial phase.

It means even more uninformed response from well meaning agents.

It means false communications from and to dealers, installers and management as they all fumble to figure out what the heck it means, when all they really needed to do was sit down and ask a small handfull of seasoned DHC members.

And ultimatly it means more money out of your pocket, wether explicity portrayed up front or buried in various and sundry nebulous costs on your bill.

NOTHING new comes for free.
They ARE in business to make money, or at least die trying.
 
Pooched? Did you not just state that if they can get access to those other 3 TP's, they would be fine for HD channels?

Far from pooched.
 
But MPEG-4 is just a different encoding algorithm than MPEG-2. In theory, each ought to deliver an identically rich final picture and sound -- and identical to the source material. MPEG-4 holds out the possibility of doing the same trick with half the bandwidth -- nice for the transport company (aka satelliteco or cableco) but irrelevant to the consumer.

The consumer wants picture and sound as near as possible to the original. If it's MPEG-4 or MPEG-2, and they seem identical, who cares?

Satellite has some serious bandwidth restraints with MPEG-2. Telcos, trying to deliver HD over phone lines, are even more constrained.

But cablecos already have a "fat pipe" into the home in the form of COAX and there are a lot of things they can do without the need to adopt MPEG-4. Getting rid of some or all analog is one thing; switching to On Demand is another; implementing "switched video" is another. None of these require replacing the STB in the consumer home. Cable already upgraded its plant a few years ago moving to "750 MHz" or "860 MHz" and moving from 64 QAM to 256 QAM -- essentially what satellite is starting to do in moving frpm QPSK to 8PSK.

MPEG-4 is another option but not a card cable needs to play soon. Satellite, on the other hand, must make it a priority. And TelcoTV really will never get off the ground without it.
 
These are in use by other Telesat customers. EV cannot use them unless the other customers give them up. That may happen as other satellites become available but that will likely be some time off.

EV is planning to use space at 72.5 but that is not slated until 2009. In the meantime, the slot is being used by a US satellite. Last I heard though, that slot may be freed up soon, freeing up transponder space on the US satellite there. Also, Anik F3 has been put into service. That makes new space available for other Telesat customers (including those using the 3 transponders at 82.) I don't know what the CEOs at EV are thinking or planning but they must have considered these options.
 
You're not going to move customers from a Nimiq 2/3 to Anik F3.

1) Nimiq 2/3 are DBS band circular polarized, Anik F3 is Ku band Linear polarized. This would require significant modifaction of the ground segment supporting these services.

2) There is no Ku space on F3 as it has all been sold to Echostar. So unless you're going to move the customers to C-band, you're not going to see much move to F3.

The use of 72.5 is probably going to happen much sooner than the launch of Nimiq5. Look at http://www.lyngsat.com/dtv1.html. Notice that that all transponders are LHCP? That leaves 16 RHCP transponders available. I don't know if DTV1 even has RHCP payload on board, but it wouldn't take much to lease a satellite with the appropriate payload and move into the slot in the interim.

There's going to be significant changes to the customer equipment requirements. Period. New receivers, a possible repoint or even new dishes. There's going to be a transition period. Possibly similar to what they did when they brought Nimiq 2 into the system. New services went there and if you wanted them, you had to pay to upgrade, but if you didn't you could continue your service as is without any changes. There's still alot of customers out there that are still only looking at 91. This transition is likely to be a seemless as that, but BEV doesn has options open to it and they could begin implementing relatively soon.
 
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