Let's Debate Afghanistan In The Pit.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Little Nemo
  • Start date Start date
I say, fuck anyone who thinks we should be there.

Let's start here.

Uzi said:
Also, who'd be stupid enough to build one [oil pipeline] there [Afghanistan] given the history of the region?
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[my answer, with some editing]

Anyone who has the US military at their disposal to secure it. And if that were our only purpose, we could immediately withdraw half our troops and turn the whole thing over to private contractors in a year or two.

But, there is more to the equation. You may have heard that heroin (poppies) is a big deal there. Behind oil and arms, drug trafficking is the worlds biggest industry and Afghanistan today produces over 90% of the world's opium.

Prior to the year 2000, all thru the Clinton administration, it was just fine that the Taliban was the world's largest heroin dealer and makin' lots of money doing it. In 2000, the Taliban, to make their regime respectable to the world, banned poppy cultivation and by early 2001, poppies had all but been eradicated. Our 'war' on drugs should be so successful.

Then, conveniently, we had 9/11. We needlessly invaded Afghanistan (to kill US subsidized Saudis) and, within two years, poppy production was up to pre-invasion levels and has grown since. And, *rolleyes*, Hamid Karzai, the guy we recently democratically *rolleyes* installed as president was the Taliban's chief drug lord. Anyone who has looked at the historical record of CIA involvement in drug trafficking to fund covert operations might see a correlation here.

Historically, US corporations, now in collaboration with Global Inc, have used the US military to establish and hold a global economic hegemony . This all out war on the world (with its huge human toll) benefits no one but those who arm and fuel it and those who profit peripherally.

Good night and good luck.

Fuck anyone who disagrees.
 
I have to think Obama doesn't want to be there either but it would be political suicide to say so. I want us out.
 
You can't get a good pizza in Afghanistan. Good pizza is the mark of a truly civilized culture. I mean, do you see any "Ghengis Khan Pizza - by the slice"? Or "Hitler Pies! Eat Fresh Today!"? I thought not.

Nuke the heathens and their so-called "72 pepperonis in heaven" crap.
 
To me there are these questions:

If we leave now will the Taliban take over again and allow free access to AQ camps and forces?

If the above does happen, how much will it endanger us?


From what I understand the answers to both those questions suck. I don't see leaving before the drawdown date as an intelligent option.
 
Lobohan said:
To me there are these questions:

If we leave now will the Taliban take over again and allow free access to AQ camps and forces?

If the above does happen, how much will it endanger us?


From what I understand the answers to both those questions suck. I don't see leaving before the drawdown date as an intelligent option.
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They probably would take over and the camps would reappear. I say, so what? There is nothing wrong with a terrorist training camp that a tomahawk missile or predator drone wouldn't fix. I'd much rather lob the occasional missile than continue to try to put Humpty Dumpty together.
 
Little Nemo said:
Now that's not true. I saw South Pacific. Those guys were singing and dancing.
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Hilarious. Maybe they were so happy because they were fighting an eminently justifiable war against a recognizable, uniformed enemy(ies)?
 
BobLibDem said:
They probably would take over and the camps would reappear. I say, so what? There is nothing wrong with a terrorist training camp that a tomahawk missile or predator drone wouldn't fix. I'd much rather lob the occasional missile than continue to try to put Humpty Dumpty together.
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Where do you suggest we get the intel on the location of these camps with an unfriendly government in place?
 
Larger nations invading small nations and attempting to inflict their will uopn them never works out and usually blows back up in the faces of the larger nation, even if that larger nation claims to be "benevolent".

Afghanistan in the 1960's was a peaceful country. Many tourists and backpackers went through the country enjoying the scenery, the towering mountains and the hashish. Most people in the United States never heard of Afghanistan.

Then the Soviet Union invaded, backing up a pro-Communist ball breaker government. A rebel alliance formed to fight the Commies. Where did these rebels get their weapons from?

The United States.

The USSR had enough of Afghanistan and leaves. These rebels still have all this top notch American hardware. So they decide to start their own government and stock it full of right wing Islamic assholes, who were educated in this militant Islam in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, iran and other places.

A Saudi fuck named Osama Bin Laden decides to hole up in Afghanistan, has followers and then does terrorism that leads up to 9/11. After 9/11, the USA invades Afghainistan, has been there forever and will not leave.

The longer the USA stays there, the harder it will be to leave eventually. If and when the USA leaves (after Israel and their agents have milked the cow dry.) the goofball Taliban will take over again and start this fucked up process all over again.

In short:

Afghanistan peaceful country pre-1970.

USSR inflicts their will upon their government and eventually invades this nation (that wasn't a threat to anybody.)

USA basically gives away high tech weaponry to a large group of militant Islamics from the stone age.

Cavemen beat Russians, Russians go home. Thanks to American taxpayer buying caveman weapons, they start an insane, mysogynistic Taliban government supported by Pakistan and more important SAUDI ARABIA, where a great deal of where America gets their oil from (and still does.)

The crazy Taliban is mad partly because of American intrusions on their lands and support of the state of Isreal, who were in turn, a bunch of wanderers, terrorists and thieves from Europe who stole the land and kicked out the people who have lived there for thousands of years, while being supported by the United States.

Afghanistan could be again a great country. There is wealth there. There would be a great market for tourism of all kinds. It could be a nice, peaceful nation of mountain people. But religion, theocracy and large nations have made Afghanistan what it is today.
 
Is that why the US is getting dicked in the ass by Karzai on a daily basis? And if big business is pulling the strings why are US companies getting shut out of the mineral rights game right now?

China is winning the bidding so far and they haven't spilled a drop of blood in Afghanistan.
I guess US business isn't bribing them enough.
 
Ok, here's what we do. And DON'T fuck anybody who disagrees ... that would be TERRIBLE.

its the people who live in the south of Afghanistan and Pakistan along the border between the two nations who are causing the trouble in both nations. They terrorize their northern neighbors. They harbor Al Qeada. So here's what we do. We give them their own country, carve it out of Pakistan and Afghanistan and tell them, 'This land is yours, but if your let your people do any terrorism shit on us or the US or our allies, we will take it back from you, and if that means leaving your land a glowing chunk of radioactive slag, so be it. We'll do it."

No border crossing, no evasion. Just a recognition of reality ... the southern regions are hardly governed now. Force self government on them and destroy them if they can't manage it without terrorism.
 
Please, folks (fuck you all), let's focus on Afghanistan as a typical extension of our corporate/govt policies since the govt declared corporations people with big feet and appetites.

Let's stay with the OP, please, fuck you all.
 
PlainJain said:
I have to think Obama doesn't want to be there either but it would be political suicide to say so. I want us out.
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You might know Evo as the popular indigenous president of Bolivia. Nice interview with Jon Stewart a while back.

Evo Morales in the New Yorker's Lithium Dreams.

As for President Barack Obama, Morales said, "He's trapped by the capitalist system and the structure of imperialism." The only difference between Obama and his predecessor, he said, is that "one is gringo, the other is black."
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Fuck you all, one more time.
 
Evil Captor said:
Ok, here's what we do. And DON'T fuck anybody who disagrees ... that would be TERRIBLE.

its the people who live in the south of Afghanistan and Pakistan along the border between the two nations who are causing the trouble in both nations. They terrorize their northern neighbors. They harbor Al Qeada. So here's what we do. We give them their own country, carve it out of Pakistan and Afghanistan and tell them, 'This land is yours, but if your let your people do any terrorism shit on us or the US or our allies, we will take it back from you, and if that means leaving your land a glowing chunk of radioactive slag, so be it. We'll do it."

No border crossing, no evasion. Just a recognition of reality ... the southern regions are hardly governed now. Force self government on them and destroy them if they can't manage it without terrorism.
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What Al Qeada? Our military has said they practically don't exist in Afghanistan or the dreaded Paki border areas. The Paki government is on their side anyway. They are glad to take our tax dollars for pretending to be fighting them though. We are again supporting repressive, military, corrupt governments. No good ever comes from that.
 
dmatsch said:
You can't get a good pizza in Afghanistan.
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Listen, asshole, I know pizza because I grew up 30 mi out of Grand Central, NYC, the home of pizza.

It was Carlo's, a mile and a half from my home. The only toppings offered were extra cheese and anchovies.

The first time I tried it, I ate the crust and loved it. But I noticed that my wealthier, pizza savvy friends left the rinds on the pan. I still do to this day.

Fuck you all.
 
gonzomax said:
... We are again supporting repressive, military, corrupt governments. No good ever comes from that.
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Agreed.

For the only real alternative, stop in at http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12696621#post12696621
 
gravitycrash said:
China is winning the bidding so far and they haven't spilled a drop of blood in Afghanistan.
I guess US business isn't bribing them enough.
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Agreed. There was a piece on NPR related to the recent announcement of Afganistan's natural resources. The gist was that American companies cannot beat Asian (China, India, etc.) companies at securing these contracts simply because American companies cannot afford the risk. In many cases, there are legal restrictions that will simply not allow American companies to participate.
 
We are again supporting repressive, military, corrupt governments. No good ever comes from that.
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That's not true. According to the OP, we're getting cheap government subsidized heroin. Which I think is great. Many heroin addicts have limited incomes and I'm glad to see the government doing something for them.
 
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