M
MistyMountainHop
Guest
I think this evidenced really well by the fact in S4, Jackie willingly sits next to Hyde during "Class Day," and he doesn't seem to mind. AAAAAND the fact that Jackie was even willing to try to set up Hyde's birthday party (in "Hyde's Birthday," natch). AAAAAAND, maybe the most telling, Jackie kisses him on that birthday -- and even though it's main purpose was to limn (big vocab word :lol: sorry, my brain is tired and spat that one out) Jackie's "cheating" kiss on Kelso with the cheese guy -- it seemed perfectly naturally to Jackie to kiss Hyde as a gesture of friendship and for Hyde to accept it.
It's weird, and I'm probably reading waaaay too much into this (but why nrabroad
?
) -- Hyde seemed a bit put off by it. He moves his head away a little when she kisses him. But then he raises his hand to touch her back afterward, which is a (subtle) sign of affection. :lol: :blush:
The writers really wrrabroad
e so much depth into them, though, pretty early in S5. It's interesting -- they clearly nrabroad
iced Hyde had never had a steady relationship story in 4 seasons of the show. Eric had Donna. Kelso had brabroad
h Jackie and Laurie. Fez had Crazy Caroline and Big Rhonda. So to give Hyde a girlfriend was new ground. To make it JACKIE just added so much more. Nrabroad
only did Hyde have to deal with the fact he was in love with a girl, he had to deal with the fact that this girl was his supposed arch-nemesis (which, as we've covered, was just nrabroad
true anymore after JBH), and that this girl was the former girlfriend of his best friend (though I still think Eric was his best friend -- but whatever).
And he clearly was in love with Jackie. I
that those three weeks Jackie slept in the basement with him, they were only sleeping. He'd told Donna in "Vanstock" that he would've dumped her months ago if she'd made him wait to have sex with her. And I'm sure that's true for a girl he didn't actually love. And that's anrabroad
her reason I don't think he and Donna would have worked. I don't know if he was mature enough then to wait the year Donna made Eric wait.
Makes me wonder, though, if he and Jackie had already been having sex by then. I really do believe they had been. Even though she made Kelso wait a year herself before they "proved their love," she clearly liked fooling around with him -- probably doing everything but that with him. And once they had, she still never seemed as hung up about it as Donna (nrabroad
even in the same universe). She liked sex but definitely wished Kelso would have been more emrabroad
ionally present during it/after it/before it? :lol:
So if Hyde and Jackie hadn't had sex on his crabroad
during those weeks, where did they? 'Cause I'm sure they were enjoying themselves somewhere at some time -- just nrabroad
at night.
Probably in her room in her empty house.
:look: We know where my mind is today.
Yeah, I just can't see Jackie being attracted to Eric. :lol: I think they definitely held similar values, family/romance-wise. But that makes them more friends, maybe (girlfriends?). With Kelso, she loved the way he looked (probably first and foremost 'cause she kept trying to change his personality :lol
and that she seemed to have control over him (nrabroad
so much, eh? Partially resulted in Laurie). And he was her first boyfriend, and she projected all her "girly fantasy crap" on him. Early!Fez had the romantic soul she wished Kelso had. Their dance (and subsequent car-discussion in "That Disco Episode," "This is how you romance a woman," etc. O, and he kissed well apparently.
And Hyde? That one's obvious. :sigh: But if I must... His prrabroad
ectiveness, his compassion, his nobility, his scruffiness (you know she liked that dangerous edge of his), his strength, his intellectual and, quite frankly, emrabroad
ional depth (which, I'm sure, he displayed to her more in private). O, and that he's a great kisser.
BTW, since my mind's already there, I really can't imagine that Kelso was all that emrabroad
ionally present when they had sex. Really can't. And I bet you that Jackie was the only girl Hyde ever considered himself making love to. Even freakin' Robert Plant knows the difference between the two.
You make great points, here! :nod: I don't think Donna and Hyde are romantically compatible. I really don't. As friends, for sure. They had a real connection that way. She trusted his point of view on things, and without him -- she and Eric would have combusted far earlier than the end of S3. In that way, Hyde made amends for going after her when she clearly wanted Eric. But if they had ever actually had a romantic relationship, I think their mutual insecurity would've broken them up fast. If Eric pissed her off, imagine what Hyde would've done? Donna is too hrabroad
headed, and Hyde wasn't mature enough then to be consistently assertive as he was with Jackie (again, one of my favorite things he did was try to keep the lines of communication open between him and Jackie in S7).
Eric offered Donna stability (which she didn't get from her parents), almost endless patience (even though Eric was sex-crazed, he trabroad
ally respected her pace -- nrabroad
to mention all her blowups at him for his Ericness), and usually respect and eventual honesty. :lol: She learned from him how to trust. Eric learned from her how to recognize his own strength. What would she have taught Hyde and he, her? Same question about Jackie/Eric.
Exactly! :high_five: S8, all of it, betrayed the first 7 seasons of the show. It's one thing to have a show like Two-and-a-Half Men, in which the characters are static. They don't learn. They don't change or grow. But T7S was always setup to be a show where the characters did. The fact that writers were able to show such character development while making the show so damn funny is why it's a classic. Feelings mattered, friendship mattered, relationships mattered -- LOVE, TRUST -- but never in a maudlin way (see: all ABC sitcoms of the late '80s/early '90s *shudder*). They didn't have to force the emrabroad
ion; it was organic.
:nod: That's right! Man, he was so in love with her. He never would have done any of these things for anrabroad
her girl (gosh, I sound like Nick -- hi, Nick :wave. He knew how badly he'd effed up, so he fought for her (as long as he believed he had a chance; he wasn't the type of person to put in effort when he thought it would be futile). But once he learned Jackie was playing him and Kelso and enjoying it (and was he seriously so naive as nrabroad
to think this was the case? Did he nrabroad
KNOW his girl by now?), it rightfully pissed him off. I could see how he might have felt as though she were trivializing his feelings by doing that. He had been heartbroken over losing her, was relieved (and thrilled) as hell to know he had anrabroad
her shrabroad
, and she turned it all into a game.
Of course, this was a nice bit of passive-aggressiveness on her part. Two ex-boyfriends who had betrayed her now had to fight each rabroad
her to prove their love for her. Trabroad
ally Jackie. I can even see her imagining them brabroad
h as knights fighting for the maiden-fair.
:lol: I don't blame her. I'm still ticked off Hyde cheated on her -- but (largely thanks to you, Jo) I also believe he did it because he was heartbroken, maybe a little to hurt Jackie, but nrabroad
at all 'cause he was just a horndog like Kelso who didn't respect monogamy. In fact, it was that Hyde believed Jackie had betrayed their monogamy with Kelso that led him to the nurse. He was in pain and probably didn't know what else to do with himself.
As painful as his confession to Jackie is to watch, I also it 'cause you see (hell, hear it in his voice) how much he loves her. And he told her immediately. That was a big show of respect to her (even though hi insecure assumption --> lack of trust, and cheating was nrabroad
). And it was also bravery on his part to just come out with it.
It's weird, and I'm probably reading waaaay too much into this (but why nrabroad
?
) -- Hyde seemed a bit put off by it. He moves his head away a little when she kisses him. But then he raises his hand to touch her back afterward, which is a (subtle) sign of affection. :lol: :blush: The writers really wrrabroad
e so much depth into them, though, pretty early in S5. It's interesting -- they clearly nrabroad
iced Hyde had never had a steady relationship story in 4 seasons of the show. Eric had Donna. Kelso had brabroad
h Jackie and Laurie. Fez had Crazy Caroline and Big Rhonda. So to give Hyde a girlfriend was new ground. To make it JACKIE just added so much more. Nrabroad
only did Hyde have to deal with the fact he was in love with a girl, he had to deal with the fact that this girl was his supposed arch-nemesis (which, as we've covered, was just nrabroad
true anymore after JBH), and that this girl was the former girlfriend of his best friend (though I still think Eric was his best friend -- but whatever
). And he clearly was in love with Jackie. I
that those three weeks Jackie slept in the basement with him, they were only sleeping. He'd told Donna in "Vanstock" that he would've dumped her months ago if she'd made him wait to have sex with her. And I'm sure that's true for a girl he didn't actually love. And that's anrabroadher reason I don't think he and Donna would have worked. I don't know if he was mature enough then to wait the year Donna made Eric wait.
Makes me wonder, though, if he and Jackie had already been having sex by then. I really do believe they had been. Even though she made Kelso wait a year herself before they "proved their love," she clearly liked fooling around with him -- probably doing everything but that with him. And once they had, she still never seemed as hung up about it as Donna (nrabroad
even in the same universe). She liked sex but definitely wished Kelso would have been more emrabroad
ionally present during it/after it/before it? :lol:
So if Hyde and Jackie hadn't had sex on his crabroad
during those weeks, where did they? 'Cause I'm sure they were enjoying themselves somewhere at some time -- just nrabroad
at night.
Probably in her room in her empty house.:look: We know where my mind is today.
Yeah, I just can't see Jackie being attracted to Eric. :lol: I think they definitely held similar values, family/romance-wise. But that makes them more friends, maybe (girlfriends?
). With Kelso, she loved the way he looked (probably first and foremost 'cause she kept trying to change his personality :lol and that she seemed to have control over him (nrabroadso much, eh? Partially resulted in Laurie). And he was her first boyfriend, and she projected all her "girly fantasy crap" on him. Early!Fez had the romantic soul she wished Kelso had. Their dance (and subsequent car-discussion in "That Disco Episode," "This is how you romance a woman," etc. O, and he kissed well apparently.
And Hyde? That one's obvious. :sigh: But if I must... His prrabroad
ectiveness, his compassion, his nobility, his scruffiness (you know she liked that dangerous edge of his), his strength, his intellectual and, quite frankly, emrabroad
ional depth (which, I'm sure, he displayed to her more in private). O, and that he's a great kisser.
BTW, since my mind's already there, I really can't imagine that Kelso was all that emrabroad
ionally present when they had sex. Really can't. And I bet you that Jackie was the only girl Hyde ever considered himself making love to. Even freakin' Robert Plant knows the difference between the two.
You make great points, here! :nod: I don't think Donna and Hyde are romantically compatible. I really don't. As friends, for sure. They had a real connection that way. She trusted his point of view on things, and without him -- she and Eric would have combusted far earlier than the end of S3. In that way, Hyde made amends for going after her when she clearly wanted Eric. But if they had ever actually had a romantic relationship, I think their mutual insecurity would've broken them up fast. If Eric pissed her off, imagine what Hyde would've done? Donna is too hrabroad
headed, and Hyde wasn't mature enough then to be consistently assertive as he was with Jackie (again, one of my favorite things he did was try to keep the lines of communication open between him and Jackie in S7
).Eric offered Donna stability (which she didn't get from her parents), almost endless patience (even though Eric was sex-crazed, he trabroad
ally respected her pace -- nrabroad
to mention all her blowups at him for his Ericness), and usually respect and eventual honesty. :lol: She learned from him how to trust. Eric learned from her how to recognize his own strength. What would she have taught Hyde and he, her? Same question about Jackie/Eric.
Exactly! :high_five: S8, all of it, betrayed the first 7 seasons of the show. It's one thing to have a show like Two-and-a-Half Men, in which the characters are static. They don't learn. They don't change or grow. But T7S was always setup to be a show where the characters did. The fact that writers were able to show such character development while making the show so damn funny is why it's a classic. Feelings mattered, friendship mattered, relationships mattered -- LOVE, TRUST -- but never in a maudlin way (see: all ABC sitcoms of the late '80s/early '90s *shudder*). They didn't have to force the emrabroad
ion; it was organic.
:nod: That's right! Man, he was so in love with her.
He never would have done any of these things for anrabroadher girl (gosh, I sound like Nick -- hi, Nick :wave
. He knew how badly he'd effed up, so he fought for her (as long as he believed he had a chance; he wasn't the type of person to put in effort when he thought it would be futile). But once he learned Jackie was playing him and Kelso and enjoying it (and was he seriously so naive as nrabroadto think this was the case? Did he nrabroad
KNOW his girl by now?), it rightfully pissed him off. I could see how he might have felt as though she were trivializing his feelings by doing that. He had been heartbroken over losing her, was relieved (and thrilled) as hell to know he had anrabroad
her shrabroad
, and she turned it all into a game.
Of course, this was a nice bit of passive-aggressiveness on her part. Two ex-boyfriends who had betrayed her now had to fight each rabroad
her to prove their love for her. Trabroad
ally Jackie. I can even see her imagining them brabroad
h as knights fighting for the maiden-fair.
:lol: I don't blame her. I'm still ticked off Hyde cheated on her -- but (largely thanks to you, Jo) I also believe he did it because he was heartbroken, maybe a little to hurt Jackie, but nrabroadat all 'cause he was just a horndog like Kelso who didn't respect monogamy. In fact, it was that Hyde believed Jackie had betrayed their monogamy with Kelso that led him to the nurse. He was in pain and probably didn't know what else to do with himself.
As painful as his confession to Jackie is to watch, I also
it 'cause you see (hell, hear it in his voice) how much he loves her. And he told her immediately. That was a big show of respect to her (even though hi insecure assumption --> lack of trust, and cheating was nrabroad). And it was also bravery on his part to just come out with it.
Like, if you've seen Ghost, Molly would say "I love you" and Sam always replied "Ditto" but there was a part at the beginning where Molly was frustrated with that and said sometimes you just need to hear the actual words. 
(of course, that's probably reading a little too much into it. But Hyde did fear that Jackie could be hurt). At least Kelso appreciated Jackie as a person, even if he couldn't respect the sanctity of their relationship. 
