I would like to throw out what MY personal list consisted of so you all can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was not one of the ones who 'artificially ranked' shows
19. Ducktales
18. Spongebob Squarepants
17. Muppet Babies
16. Garfield and Friends
15. Ren and Stimpy
14. Yogi Bear Show
13. He-Man
12. Dragon Ball Z
11. Batman TAS
10. GI Joe ARAH
9. Animaniacs
8. Rocky and Bullwinkle
7. Transformers
6. TMNT
5. South Park
4. Flintstones
3. Simpsons
2. Scooby-Doo
1. Looney Tune
Now after going through the list there are some minor changes I would most definitely make and I for sure need to watch some of the anime and super hero series that others have been talking about so that I can place them more accurately. But I think you can see from my original rankings that I was not just trying to 'get a show on the list' as unfortunately others that contributed did
I agree to some extent as it is a massive list and I feel if we get more Geek/Toon networks setup for next year with additions of current shows as well we can redo this next year. However as it stands we have limited exposure to much of the shows NOT airing here. So granted I concede we do leave some out, but it is what all of us were familiar with. In saying that some awesome stuff shows up for the next part of the list and I think many will be vary pleased with what shows.
Bebop at #1 on my list is totally my personal bias but I do think it should be in the top 10, probably top 5. I guess it's kind of hard to compare short running series to long running series, since The Simpsons has been merely OK for at least as long as it was great but it was still great for a pretty long time and the original run of Looney Tunes lasted twice as many years as The Simpsons but had similar rises and dips in general quality over that time, plus with the different directors the style could be all over the place.
Teen Titans shouldn't be Top 50 but Top 100 easily. Certainly more worthy that something like The Super Mario Brothers Super Show and should probably rank alongside Batman: The Brave and The Bold, maybe even a bit higher since it did both the comedy and the more serious action equally well.
Not sure where I'd rank Scooby Doo. I mean, it's stayed popular for a long time but it's not particularly good nor has it had a particularly strong influence on other cartoons (while The Flintstones would lead to The Simpsons and a few other good-to-great series, Scooby Doo only really led to a bunch of long-forgotten rip-offs in the '70s). Maybe in like the 40-50 range? Understand why it ranked higher than that on the list, though.
So in my expectations I did not guess 5 shows that did make the list and I have no qualms with those shows, actually I greatly like some of them. Particularly Garfield and Friends and ReBoot which I honeslty didn't expect to see but I'm so glad it made the list and as high as it did.
You guys don't actually have to defend every 80s show that hocked toys. Some of them were genuinely entertaining cartoons. The Real Ghostbusters would certainly qualify. But you best be right about Transformers Generation 1 not getting much higher than Beast Wars because there's no way it should make top 10 maybe not even top 15. Thundercats was lower than I expected from you guys actually though still much to high IMO.
Superfriends... I'd say should be much lower. I realize it's value in the grand scheme of things and that it lasted a long time and some series of it were better than others so it's top 100 worthy sure but not top 50 much less top 40.
Mike, I think you should stop discrediting cartoons simply because you don't like who made them or what they've said about other cartoons you like. John K. is a egomanic who shouldn't have said that crap about Tiny Toons but he does some good work from time to time and the original Ren and Stimpy is probably his best. Some people say the show was actually better when Nickelodeon gave John K. the boot. Ren and Stimpy should have ranked a bit higher. It had every right to though I personally prefer Rocko and thought it was considerably more clever.
Not to rag on you again for lack of knowledge of anime but Avatar isn't Japanese and rather than debate this because I know of plenty of people and websites that consider it anime and I don't want this to sound elitist in any fashion but Avatar is an American cartoon and a great one at that. I'd say it and Samurai Jack both should have ranked higher and shame on whoever doesn't like Genndy Tarakovsky's cartoons. That man is a genius.
I can't believe how low IGN ranked DBZ. I think this got it's ranking much better. Maybe it should be a little higher. I could see it being top 30 maybe top 25 on a "only broadcasted in America" list but hey at least it's not in the 70s. Pokemon coming in just under DBZ is also fine by me.
Now I enjoyed TaleSpin and Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers but I wouldn't rank them that high. I'd almost argue if this list was more encompassing than they probably aren't top 100 or if they are no higher than 70.
I'd rank Pinky and the Brain higher. That show was just all kinds of great. I'd probably rank it higher than Tiny Toons and would be torn between it and Freakazoid with Animaniacs claiming the best of those 90s WB cartoons.
I'm surprised Tom and Jerry and Rocky and Bullwinkle did not rank top 20 or even top 15. I see plenty of lists with Tom and Jerry in the top 10. IGN ranked R&B at 11 was it? Sounds about right.
Why I didn't think of Alvin and the Chipmunks and Inspector Gadget when I was coming up with my top 40 predictions is simply beyond me.
Alright I fully expect the original He-Man, Transformers G1 and G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero to make the top 20 (I always expected that though I thought you guys would throw in Thundercats as well) and if they rank in the top 15 I'm gonna want to hear good explanations for it. Because those 3 (with G.I. Joe maybe being the best) are the shows I'd say don't stand the test of time very well at all (them and Thundercats) and to a lesser extent Ninja Turtles but I have a personal bias for that one I must admit (but would still rank it lower than TMNT 2003). I expect any and all of you main guys will be able to elaborate why those 3 shows are worthy of such a high rank so be sure to do so and maybe just maybe I'll be able to swallow it.
I'd say my biggest issue with this list overall is that some shows ranked too high or too low and that many of the low slots were filled out with shows I don't consider Top 100 which in turn made it so other shows perhaps more deserving of the recognition did not make the list. I can agree with the vast majority of the shows that made the list though and to your credit you ranked shows well deserving of it that IGN completely overlooked because of their bias towards adult comedies.
Looking at my original 40 predictions factoring in the 5 I didn't expect I had to strike 5 from what didn't make it so far and I am disappointed to strike all of these. American Dad, Venture Bros., Sonic SatAM, Rocko's Modern Life and Invader Zim. I'm American Dad I don't see ranking higher than Family Guy (though I might rank it higher) much less higher than King of the Hill. Sonic SatAM isn't really top 20 worthy. Rocko and Zim probably just got lost in the shuffle and while I feel they are absolutely top 100 worthy I might argue Rocko is Top 20 but I'd have a hard time justifying even that. I still think Venture Bros. isn't out of the question and I feel it's Top 20 worthy maybe even Top 15 but the remaining 20 predictions just seem a lot more likely.
So here's my remaining 20
Animaniacs
Batman: The Animated Series
Batman Beyond
Darkwing Duck
DuckTales
He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero
The Flintstones
Futurama
Gargoyles
Justice League
Looney Tunes
Scooby-Doo Where Are You?
The Simpsons
South Park
Spider-Man: The Animated Series
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Tiny Toon Adventures
Transformers: Generation 1
X-Men: The Animated Series
OK First off the only show I have absolute hatred of is Ren & Stimpy simply as you stated the creator is egomaniac. Plus I didn't find any of it funny.
Kevin is the one that doesn't like GT's style i.e. dexters and stuff but hey whatever
The following are my predictions this isn't what the actual list will be. Because here's how I see things.
20: Transformers G1
19: G.I. Joe RAH
18: He-man 80's
that's where I wanna see the remaining 80's famous type cartoons that we have bias towards. We'll have to see if I'm right or not next week.
Bias is bound to happen. You'd have to have a panel of animation enthusiasts who have watched cartoons for a long time and wont base their opinions on nostalgia and probably put some younger debators in there as well.
Truthfully a top 100 for a decade is a lot easier to manage than a top 100 of all time because cartoons have been around a loooooong time now and every generation will have a different opinion on their quality.
Okay my thoughts on the 80-61
PPG is better than probably most of the shows that have made the list so far.
Super Mario Bros. Super Show beating Captain N is appropriate, either being on the list is a disagrace. Care Bears kinda not worthy of the list either.
Silverhawks and Bravestarr are two shows I've only heard of and never watched but I have my doubts they're top 100 worthy as well.
Danger Mouse I've never really seen either but I know enough about it to be okay with it's placement.
Jonny Quest maybe should be higher if only for being so influential but it's placement is alright.
Johnny Bravo seems a bit high beating both PPG by a lot and Dexter by a bit. But JB did maintain a consistent quality... I'd still consider the best of PPG and Dexter to be better cartoons that JB though. Mind you I said the best of them, not their low points.
Glad Brave and the Bold made the list and it's ranking seems about right but I know some medicore 90s super hero cartoons are likely to beat it and that I'm not okay with.
Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends making it along with 60's Spider-Man is rather groan worthy. I'm sure 90s Spider-Man will make it but if Spectacular Spider-Man doesn't these guys don't know what a good super hero cartoon is when Bruce Timm's name isn't attached. I'm somewhat more hopeful noticing Brave and the Bold and some other newer cartoons made the list.
Is Aladdin's series really top 100 worthy? I love Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers and enjoy TaleSpin and Goof Troop but the only Disney Afternoon shows I really think are top 100 worthy are Darkwing Duck, DuckTales and Gargoyles. I'm okay with Gummi Bears making the list where it did mostly because it was the first of that boom from Disney TV animation. I get the feeling Darkwing, DuckTales, Gargoyles, Chip 'n Dale and TaleSpin are all going to make the list though.
Doug's placement on the list is fine but I fully expect Rugrats, Ren and Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life, Spongebob and maybe Zim to beat it. If they don't, they probably should.
The Critic's ranking seems about right.
Space Ghost's ranking also seems about right. If there are any AS originals / exclusives that I'd be okay with doing better than it and Birdman it's Venture Bros. for sure and maybe Aqua Teens, Home Movies and The Boondocks. If only VB makes the list beyond this point, that'd be quite alright with me. To me VB and Birdman are the tops for AS comedies but I know opinions differ.
I was surprised to see Death Note, it's placement seems alright though. It's not the best suspense thriller and kind of falls apart when L exists the scenario but it was very good. I don't suppose Paranoia Agent or Ghost in the Shell will beat it on this list given a ranking for a certain highly popular ASA anime but we'll see.
I really need to watch Phineas and Ferb one of these days but going by what I've heard from other people it's placement is appropriate.
Gennedy's Clone Wars placement is hard for me to judge. It was series of really well produced shorts and I remember enjoying it a lot but I'd have to watch it again for me to judge this myself. I was surprised to hear some of them saying the 2008 series should rank higher. I never liked that one but to be fair I haven't tried watching past the first season and I've heard it's improved a lot so maybe I'm just missing out.
Lastly Cowboy Bebop... that's a mighty low ranking but the really sad thing is only one of them had seen it and he thought it had aired on Toonami. Really guys it's not my favorite anime by any stretch but if you're going to claim to know anything about cartoons you probably should have at least tried to watch Cowboy Bebop given the acclaim it's received and given how long it's been on US television. Lots of people who don't like Japanese cartoons or rather don't like many of them still consider Cowboy Bebop to be a mighty fine cartoon. This is probably the biggest faux-pa of this list next to PPG barely making it.
Been a bumpy ride so far and I've got to admit that I'm all the more curious how they'll rank some other shows based off of what barely missed the list and the first two batches.
Right it was Kevin who didn't like Genndy Tartakovsky's shows Dexter's Lab and Samurai Jack. That's a darn shame but to each their own I guess.
Well I can somewhat understand why you wouldn't find Ren and Stimpy funny but I thought it was hilarious and still is (at least many episodes of it).
Gross humor for the sake of gross humor isn't usually funny to me but Ren and Stimpy usually managed to vague enough that I didn't find it offensive rather than the blatantly distasteful humor in many Adult Swim shows and the adult version of Ren and Stimpy.
You'd really rank He-Man higher than TFG1 and G.I. Joe: RAH? I have never seen the appeal in the original He-Man but maybe I need to give it another shot. At any rate better prepare your note cards for when those shows come up.
Well, I understand the general idea of these kinds of lists. You know, pulling together and bringing the best of the best to the forefront and giving them the attention and accolades they deserve and possibly introducing some lesser known greats to new audiences and giving them some well deserved attention.
There are a lot of great lists out there for movies and music, even TV shows and books, but there are no really well done ones for animation.
The problem is that for some reason or another, the people who put these lists together tend to go with what they remember as kids and little else. I guarantee the people who make these lists don't look at both TMNT 2K3 and the old show to decide which should make their list, they just throw on the one they remember as kids. That's not how you make a list of the 'best' animated shows, but I have yet to see one that has done it right.
Yeah and you still ranked Transformers G1 #7 and even keeping in mind the impact of the show I don't feel that's top 10 material.
Kind of suprised Batman isn't top 10 on your list.
I would say my Top 25 based on QUALITY not preference (but obviously quality is subjective to some bias) is pretty much this
25. Batman Beyond
24. The Spectacular Spider-Man
23. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003)
22. The Venture Bros.
21. Darkwing Duck
20. Gargoyles
19. Superman: The Animated Series
18. Avatar: The Last Airbender
17. Family Guy
16. Scooby-Doo Where Are You? (it'd do better if this was about impact)
15. One Piece (though it has little to no significance here)
14. Paranoia Agent (it really is a masterpiece)
13. Cowboy Bebop
12. Samurai Jack
11. The Ren and Stimpy Show
10. Justice League / JLU
9. South Park
8. Futurama
7. Tom and Jerry
6. The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show
5. Animaniacs
4. The Flintstones
3. The Simpsons
2. Batman: The Animated Series
1. Looney Tunes
If we're going by cultural impact then probably something more like this but I do not admit to being the best informed person when it comes to judging the impact of animated series on popular culture
25. Family Guy
24. Pokemon
23. Dragon Ball Z
22. Speed Racer
21. The Smurfs
20. Muppet Babies
19. DuckTales
18. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
17. G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero
16. Transformers Generation 1
15. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
14. Spongebob SquarePants
13. Animaniacs
12. Beavis and Butt-head
11. The Ren and Stimpy Show
10. South Park
9. Popeye
8. Scooby-Doo Where Are You?
7. The Yogi Bear Show
6. The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show
5. Tom and Jerry
4. Batman: The Animated Series
3. The Simpsons
2. The Flintstones
1. Looney Tunes
I happen to find some of those 25 to be very low quality overall but their impact on pop-culture is notable none the less.
Simply put. Do I think Futurama and Paranoia Agent are two series that greatly impacted pop-culture? No. Not at all. Futurama was very successful but Paranoia Agent was barely a blip on the radar. Do I feel their quality should have them outrank more culturally relevant series? Yes. In some cases by leaps and bounds.
And if you're curious what my entirely bias favorites list would look like
10. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
9. M.E.G.A.S. XLR
8. Batman: The Animated Series
7. Justice League / JLU
6. Futurama
5. Looney Tunes
4. Animainacs
3. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987)
2. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003)
1. One Piece
Yep, not much common sense in that last one but I can't help what I adore.
I can however at least try to look at things subjectively because I know full well my top 3 are not the best 3 animated series of all time. They're just the ones I most prefer to watch myself.
I'm glad Space Ghost Coast to Coast made it on the list. Though I disagreed with some of their comments on it. "I don't think this is one of the best." And Captain N IS?
Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends being lower on the list made sense. Though if 90's Spider-Man is on the list and Spectacular ISN'T, I'll pinch my forehead in frustration. 90's Anna Watson being anywhere NEAR this list makes me RAEG.
I SERIOUSLY disagreed with that guy's Dexter rant. Just because the character designs are simple, they aren't REAL character designs? Ah well, I guess it has to do with taste. I also disagree with his opinion that Dexter ripped off the Looney Tunes style humor.
I'm also really glad to see Batman: The Brave and the Bold on the list. Though I disagree that the show is ONLY for fans of the silver age.
I'm kind of indifferent towards Doug. While I thought it was a decent show, I definitely wouldn't put it above PPG or BtBatB.
The Super Mario Bros. Super Show ranked above Dexter, Powerpuff Girls, The Critic, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, AND Space Ghost Coast to Coast?! Yeah, I have no comment. Ugh...
I'm glad Johnny Brave made the list, but I'd still rank PPG or Dexter higher.
I wouldn't really put Bravestarr or SilverHawks on this list, but whatever.
Glad that Phineas and Ferb made the list, too. It's always nice to see it get some props. It's a fantastic show. Though I WOULD probably rate it a bit higher.
Yes I'd rank He-Man higher then TFG1 for the simple fact that it had amazing storytelling. And even though 80's MOTU isn't continuity based I love it for separate stories. It's kinda like reading books each story is unique. The big continuity with He-Man was the film Secret Of The Swordc vnually became the she-ra series.
I love TFG1 nostalgia wise and always will but there were too many nonsense type plot holes in the episodes.
as far as ranking RAH lower then he-man again the same reason as G1 even though I love the old G.I. joe cartoon the storytelling was so much better on he-man.
I guess the history teacher in me always naturally goes by cultural impact, not saying thats right or wrong but its just my natural tendency. That being said, I love your second list!! I didn't rank batman higher because like I said I just havent been exposed to enough super hero shows to rank them legitimately (same goes for Anime). When bringing in the 20 people for this collaboration I made the wrong assumption that many of them would be anime fans which would balance out those of us that weren't. Things like this will be fixed in the future
In my opinion, success and cultural impact should never trump whether or not a show is good at what it trying to accomplish. Be that to tell a complex story, paint a vivid picture or make an audience fall out of their seat laughing. Because there are different genres it's hard to rank them outside of their own genres but if you keep in mind what the show is trying to accomplish in entertaining the viewer you can at least somewhat subjectively rank them in quality.
I have no qualms with a list ranking shows by their success and cultural impact but then you should probably call it "most popular cartoons of all time", "most successful cartoons of all time" or "most impactful cartoons of all time" but when you go around saying this is "the best" which implies above all else, quality. You get into trouble when you throw in shows that may have been hugely successful but are not nearly worth the sum of their parts.
It gets a bit messy when you try to incorporate quality, success and cultural impact. You tend to end up with a lot of shows that are pretty good but are best known for selling merchandise or having the most rip-offs along with some that are arguably not very well produced shows even for their time but they're ranking well because of what they may have been able to accomplish and how popular they were with a certain audience when they were still broadcasting.
I'm not saying all old cartoons shouldn't rank well. There are certainly some that should because above all else they were great cartoons but going by all of the factors this list was pushing I can't imagine why shows such as Underdog, George of the Jungle, Astroboy and Speed Racer would not place at all on the collective list. They all had lasting impact, they were considered good for their time and plenty popular. All of which have seen a movie adaptation long after their broadcast. 3 of which have had modern animated series. They're nearly as iconic as Rocky and Bullwinkle, Pink Panther, Popeye, Tom and Jerry and Yogi Bear and they also impacted future animation. He-Man, Transformers and G.I. Joe probably sold more stuff but for their time are they better cartoons? Putting those 3 (and Turtles) aside for a moment because I'm not saying those 4 aren't worthy of a top 100 list they just shouldn't rank as well as they did. There's a number of shows on this list that I'd argue neither had a lasting impact nor were even good by the standards of their time.
There's a lot to factor in here and I honestly question if the legacy of shows matters that much in regard to quality. Granted because new methods have come along it's hard to judge shows based on animation quality though you can base them more on writing and voice acting. I mean nobody is going to say Looney Tunes had the best animation ever but did it have some of the best writing and voice acting? You bet it did. You have to judge the whole package I suppose mostly by enjoyment factor and if a show succeeded at what it set out to do be that for it to be funny, to be action packed, to be suspenseful or what have you.
While popularity and legacy do matter to an extent how long a show was around or how often it's rerun doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the show's quality compared to cartoons older or newer than it. That could simply come down to how the owner of the cartoon treats it and nothing more. So while something that's lasted many season obviously has done something right and while something that's very popular obviously has done something right it doesn't speak for the quality of the work as a whole.
Some of the cartoons on this list aren't even good compared to shows of their time much less shows of all time and that's a problem.
I don't really have as much a problem with the writing the problem I have with GT is I absolutely HATE that animation design style. For me it is pretty much the ONLY animation style that makes a show unwatchable for me. I highly prefer even Anime styles over that style.
This is a good point, this last episode most of the co-hosts should be able to predict a good majority of the shows so let's hope they are prepared (MIKE!!!!)
I thought you might be surprised after I had noticed you had overlooked those five
THANK YOU!!!!
As am I, easily both Top 20 in my book
Mike you haven't even seen enough of the RAH series to talk about its storytelling come on man be honest!
I felt of the 3 RAH had the best characters and storytelling. They weren't nearly as ionic as some of the Transformers probably because they were uh... average joes (hah!) but I feel they were at least a little bit better written than TFG1. It had more than its fair share of absolutely ridiculous plots but those can be fun. They certainly were in Ninja Turtles but G.I. Joe always seemed like a show that was supposed to be taken seriously while TMNT was more of a comedy than an action show at the end of the day (it had enough action to be an action show though).
Certainly episodic shows can have good storytelling and maybe I'm selling He-Man short but I have a hard time believing it's even top 20 worthy.
I completely agree that all 3 of those shows are worthy of being in the Top 100 there's certainly room for some camp and cheese in the top 100 because that's what some shows did particularly well and popularity and impact can't be overlooked entirely of course which would make them at least Top 50 maybe Top 30 but Top 20 is a stretch IMO. I would think the Top 20 cartoons of all time would be enjoyable by pretty much anyone young and old and I'd question if some kids today would like those shows much less older cartoon watchers who aren't already familiar with them.
I got a good laugh hearing how Tara ranked ReBoot to which my only response is "well duh she's Canadian and that show was huge there" we might never have seen the other season if it weren't for Toonami picking it up and airing the 3rd and 4th seasons.
Almost forgot. Family Guy ranked pretty much where I thought it should. With respect to it's overall quality and it's impact maybe a bit higher would be appropriate but I'm so freak'n sick of it ranking Top 10 pushing aside better cartoons or cartoons that have a far greater legacy. Yes it's funny. It can be downright hilarious and I've enjoyed many episodes but you know what? Lots of cartoons are hilarious and IMO just as enjoyable and others are even funnier or better at whatever genre they're going for. At this point I'm actually preferring American Dad to Family Guy more times than not. Family Guy has it's place in the Top 100, Top 25 even. I wouldn't be bothered by it being as high as 15 but Top 10? No. Just no. It's good but It's not that good.
