Geek Cast Radio Network's Top 100 Animated Series Countdown

Arguably the most damaging AS series to the HB library is Harvey Birdman but it only lasted 39 episodes and doesn't even commonly air now (it's going to return in the DVR Theatre slot). The other is Sealab 2021 which far out reaches any popularity Sealab 2020 actually had and probably makes that show itself very difficult to market. The other things they did were just small spoof intersiduals that are mostly forgotten and haven't aired in years.

I don't think many people who grew up on those cartoons were all that bent out of shape about how they were presented. Many of them laughed a long with the jokes which were designed to point out the quirks of the series in question. It's for that reason I love Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law and always will.

At any rate it's been a long time since AS has even bothered with poking fun at HB cartoons other than in Robot Chicken which spoofs pretty much everything no holds bar.

Since you also brought up Venture Bros. in regard to this topic, while the show ties directly to Jonny Quest due to inclusion of "Action Jonny" and Race's cameo it's a parody of the entire adventure cartoon spectrum and it's chock full of super hero parodies as well. I takes most of its tropes from Jonny Quest simply because JQ was the biggest and most successful pioneer of the adventure cartoon genre. By the end of season 1 they were pushing far beyond being just a spoof of that genre and being its own thing. If I had to compare it to anything, it's like The Tick. While The Tick is a parody of super heroes and parodies particular ones it's still it's own thing and not just about taking pot shots at pre-existing characters. Not surprisingly there is cross-over for people who worked on The Tick and The Venture Bros.

When I say VB is a marvel of modern television I mean so in regard to quality of the storyies, characters and overall humor. The show is simply a joy to watch and absolutely hilarious and there's 2 more seasons in the works as well. It's amazing how they can keep up that level of quality from season to season and build on it every season as well.



With the way you guys present the list that's a rule that's bound to get on people's nerves. Granted most people aren't going to come at you with torches and pitch forks for not including animation from France, Italy, Korea (lol everything is animated there now) and certain other parts of the world but you've already felt the scorn of Japanese animation fans. It is unfair to expect anyone in the US to know of every great piece of art animation has to offer from other parts of the world because we only can judge what we've all seen but when you make the claim "best animated series of all time" people are naturally going to assume you mean from the rest of the world as well. So I dunno if it's stupid to add the subtext "that have aired in America" just so you don't have to keep reminding people about it but maybe it would have helped.

Also, maybe it's just me but I feel like quality subjective as that may be should be what ranks shows higher as oppose to how long they last and how well they are received. There are some brilliant cartoons that for whatever reason never caught on and to see them omitted supposedly because they didn't catch on is a shame. With respect to impact and legacy, those things should factor in but not above quality. I don't think your list has done too badly in that regard but when you guys talk about why shows should make the list you mostly talk about the impact and how long they lasted which I suppose is an essential list of facts but to me it doesn't entirely explain why they belong where they do on the list.

There are some things that are universal in regard to being well renowned, popular and having lasting impact. That's why The Simpsons, Batman: TAS and Looney Tunes will always make these lists and always make the Top 10 and should. Above all other impacts they are quality cartoons or in the case of The Simpsons had many quality seasons overall. This is why regardless if I prefer to watch Justice League Unlimited more than Batman: TAS I can't argue Batman: TAS is the best action cartoon ever made. It was popular because of it's quality. Certainly there are plenty of shows that are but there are also shows that are popular despite not being all that great and I suppose we all have our bias when it comes to quality and you can't judge old cartoons by modern animation and call them bad simply because they don't have the animation improvements newer cartoons can have. But you can judge them by the writing, the characters, perhaps even the music and above all else the overall entertainment value. I just feel like some lists put too much emphasis on how long a cartoon lasted and if it was pioneer of the genre and forgives it for bad writing, weak characterization and even bad acting because it made an impact. Having an impact and being well received matters but it shouldn't matter more than the show being a good entertaining cartoon.
 
I don't care whether it's IGN or a bunch of 80's obsessed geeks -- all "Top 100 whatever" lists are unsubstantiated trash. If they were listed as personal favorites and nothing more, I wouldn't mind because at least they aren't masquerading under a false pretense of authoritativeness.

This list fails extra hard for putting Captain Planet over PPG, though. There's not enough facepalms in the world for that one.
 
Captain N? How? How?! Next thing I know they'll be listing the Super Mario Bros Super Show. Okay, that thing was cool for kids that really dug Nintendo stuff. I know I did as a lad. But it's just.....it's not well made. It's not well written. It's not well-anything.
 
How come you bring this up if you're not even sure how you'd go about ranking anime yourself? Something that ranks in a Top 20 list has to be both consistently high quality and massively popular or influential? What's wrong with just ranking it based on how well executed or written it is?

I'm not saying I agree with HG's list, but there's reasons for including stuff like FLCL and Paranoia Agent over two series that were technically gateway anime designed to sell merchandise. If it were up to me, I'd probably just let SpongeBob take the number 1 position and sprinkle the rest with personal favorites as well as popular well known stuff.
 
For starters, thats not what THIS LIST (as in the one this thread is based on) is going on.

Secondly, if you're TRULY trying to come up with the best animations of all time, there's A LOT you need to account for.

If you were making a list of "Best executed animated series", thats a different story all together.

It comes down to defining the project. GCR made absolutely sure they defined the scope of their project on the first show of this countdown.
 
Why is "best executed" different from "best". If anything this list is "most influential for their time" and I really don't agree that "most influential for their time" means "best" overall.

I couldn't rank Cowboy Bebop higher than Looney Tunes because I'd say the best cartoon ever has to be equally enjoyable to all audiences. In that regard Batman: TAS would beat Cowboy Bebop and Looney Tunes certainly would. If you want to say it's the "best" for older audiences that I could maybe agree with.

Alright on to my list response and this is gonna be a doozy

Spider-Man the Animated Series

In my opinion this was a great show and one of the best Spider-Man shows but not the best, that title in my opinion belongs to The Spectacular Spider-Man. I’d say this is top 50 worthy and maybe top 30 but top 20 is a bit much.

Darkwing Duck

I’m gonna level with you. This is my favorite Disney cartoon ever. Heck it’s one of my favorite cartoons ever so I’m bias. I understand it’s not as iconic or as influential as DuckTales or Gargoyles but for sheer entertainment value I’d give it to Darkwing in a heart-beat. It also was very unique for Disney’s animated series and while it is an extension of DuckTales due to use of characters and being in the same universe it certainly stands on its own. Perhaps we never would have gotten it without DuckTales, actually I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t have but in quality of the writing and sheer entertainment value I’d rank Darkwing higher than DuckTales and maybe Gargoyles.

Futurama

I’m happy this made the top 20. I think IGN probably was too generous giving it top 10 but I’d give it top 15. Futurama is my prime time comedy of choice and has been for years. In my opinion the quality speaks for itself.

Justice League / Justice League Unlimited

To me, this is the best super hero cartoon ever. What Timm, Dini, McDuffie (may he rest in peace) and the rest of the crew did with JLU in particular was marvelous. I consider it second to only Batman in quality but I enjoy it more than Batman. At least I think I do. It’s kind of hard for me to say for certain. I would have been content with it being second to Batman: TAS for action cartoons but clearly it wasn’t and that disappoints me greatly. With the super hero bias these guys have I thought it fair better. Such was not the case.

Batman Beyond

I have to give Batman Beyond its’ due. It’s a great series and it took a concept that would make any comic fan run and hide and did an excellent job with it. Even so I feel the writing isn’t quite up to par with JLU and JLU contains some of the best moments in the BB mythos in my opinion so I’d rank it better. I might also rank Superman: TAS better than Batman Beyond as well.

He-Man and the Masters of the Universe

It churns my stomach that this beat Batman Beyond and Justice League. Setting that aside, I’m just not sure what to think of He-Man in the grand scheme of things. As it was a pioneer for the 80s its’ not entirely without merit but if it had to be in the top 20 for that iconic value I’d rank it in the higher end of the top 20 placing better written and produced cartoons in front of it.

Scooby-Doo Where Are You?

This ranking a shame like Rocky and Bullwinkle, Tom and Jerry and a few other vintage animated series higher on the list. It speaks volumes that they still market the original Scooby-Doo series to children and they eat it up. It’s not one of my favorite cartoons but I can hardly argue it’s not top 10 material. The countless imitators and the years of success should by their way of ranking shows put this in the top 10 without question.

Gargoyles

I’m pleasantly surprised to see Gargoyles make the top 15. I’d say that’s just about right though there are some shows I’d rank differently that are lower on the list.

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero

Of the 80s toy pushing boy series I’d say this one held up the best. The stories are arguably much better than those in He-Man or Transformers and the characters are pretty interesting. Kobra Commander was such a great villain even if he did somewhat laughable things for the head of a terrorist organization. There’s no way I’d rank it better than Gargoyles, Justice League or Batman Beyond though.

X-Men: The Animated Series

I kind of expected this to rank about where it did but I wasn’t expecting it to beat Justice League. There’s no question in my mind Justice League was a better cartoon in every way but especially in animation quality for its time. None the less X-Men is still top 20 worthy. Barely missing top 10 is a wee bit generous though.

Tiny Toon Adventures

I honestly didn’t expect this to rank in the top 10. It’s a great show to be sure, top 20 easily maybe top 15 but top 10 seems like it’s pushing it. I honestly prefer Pinky and the Brain and Freakazoid and would argue Pinky and the Brain is the better cartoon overall but I’m not going to split hairs over that.

The Flintstones

Wait… The Flintstones isn’t in the top 5? This is madness and I don’t like where it is going. The Flintstones going by their ranking system should be top 5 or even top 3. It lasted years, it was highly iconic, its’ legacy is more significant than nearly any other TV series (not just among cartoons either). Some folks must have rocks for a brain. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

South Park

I wouldn’t have this outrank The Flintstones but its’ top 10 material.

Animaniacs!

Again, I’m hard pressed to rank this better than The Flintstones but I personally prefer to watch Animaniacs. Kind of disappointed it didn’t make top 5.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Oooo just barely missed top 5. That’s a bummer dude but that’s how the gram cracker pizza crumples. Plenty of you guys know TMNT is one of my all-time favorite cartoons but I’d be hard pressed to say it’s top 10 worthy. I’m certainly not going to complain about it doing a bit better than that but I for one would rank the 2003 TMNT better than the 1980s series.

DuckTales

I’m not so sure I’d rank DuckTales top 10 either but if it was top 10 it would be maybe 9 or 10. It was very important and also a great cartoon but as I already said, I feel Darkwing Duck is a much better cartoon and I’d probably rank it better than DuckTales but factoring in culture impact DuckTales earns the best spot among Disney Afternoon shows.

Looney Tunes

Do you mean to tell me this list does not have Looney Tunes in the top 3? That’s a travesty especially given what claimed #3.

Transformers Generation 1

Even though they made a point of making sure people knew they understood TFG1 should not have ranked better than Looney Tunes and probably shouldn’t even be in the top 20. The fact remains that’s how their list turned out and for that they should be railed on, at least momentarily. There is clearly a flaw in this process and I think a lot of it had to do with people ranking various shows in their top 5, 10 or 20 in attempts to just make sure they get on the list. Something to consider for any future attempts. And for a more dramatic response see this. Thanks to Nexonis for this link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOxt9PoJNkg&feature=share Maybe a Sam Witwhicky "no no no NO!" fest would have been appropriate as well.

The Simpsons

Yep… nothing much to say here. I might argue The Flinstones is better or more important or what have you but The Simpsons is more than a clone of The Flinstones and The Flintstones takes a lot of it’s attributes from The Honey Mooners so it’s not the most original idea out there either. I can understand why it would rank better than The Flintstones as it has on most if not all lists of this nature but it still feels a bit wrong to do so.

Batman: The Animated Series

Excepted/10

I’m certainly not going to argue with it but I wouldn’t have batted an eyelash at Looney Tunes, The Simpsons or The Flintstones taking #1 instead.

Now on to the most staggering omissions in my opinion:

Rocko’s Modern Life, Invader Zim, Sonic SatAM, American Dad and The Venture Bros. All of which should make top 50 in my opinion and at the very least should be present in favor of the likes of BraveStarr, C.O.P.S., Super Mario Bros. Super Show, Captain N and Captain Planet. Some of the shows that just barely missed the list probably should have made it as well.

All of that said, I do feel for the most part you guys did rank shows more appropriately than IGN did. IGN’s top 100 had some glaring omissions that you guys corrected so at least there’s that but they had some shows on their list that I really did feel were top 100 worthy.

However I also feel the ranking system is rather flawed and it became very evident throughout and especially in some of the rankings in the top 20. There’s really no better explanation as to why Looney Tunes lost to Transformers Generation 1. Making a top 200 wouldn't necessarily resolve that it's how you all made your personal lists as well as how they were counted that caused some oddities. I like the idea of taking the average with the current lists and see how that compares but I really think the individual lists either having glaring omissions and artificially ranking shows better than others to just make sure they got on the list had a negative affect on process. When you rank something top 10 it should be because it actually is top 10 on the scale you are grading it on not just because you want to make sure it gets on the list.
 
Because most of us at GCRN live in north america. If it didn't air here back in the day it would probably not have been seen by us as kids.

There is that argument enough lol
 
In regard to shows being good and perhaps unique regardless of how well they were received or how long they lasted?

Sure

The Secret Saturdays, Megas XLR and Sym-Bionic Titan lasted 36, 26 and 20 episodes respectively. They were cancelled due to lack of support and lower than expected ratings (that were still rather good given lack of support). They certainly have a fan following though maybe not as large as bigger successes.

In my mind some of them might be worthy of the top 100 for being good cartoons with interesting stories, hilarious gags or unique presentations respectively.

There's one or two shows on your list so far that were able to make it despite being short lived and barely noticed overall the notable example being The Spectacular Spider-Man. Not influential or at least we haven't seen it's influence on anything else really, it only lasted 2 seasons due to the Disney Marvel buy-out and Sony's involvement in the series production and it was difficult to watch in the US due to being first only on a struggling Saturday morning block and then on DXD which far less people get.

If a show is both good and was popular or made a big impact it should make the list and plenty high but if it was just impactful and not necessarily that great of a cartoon I'd question high placement or placement on the top 100 at all.

For example Voltron. Voltron is certainly not Go-Lion (and some would say that's an improvement actually) but is it actually a good series? I find the acting to be mostly terrible, the storylines to be weak, the characters to lack personality and the animation to be choppy as all give out even for it's time. Why should that rank higher that Cowboy Bebop which has great characters, fantastic visuals for its time and is considerably more entertaining? To skew this argument toward being within the same franchise. TMNT 2003 is a better cartoon than 1980s TMNT in just about every possible way. At least until Fast Forward hit but it's not like TMNT in the 90s didn't have it's own black sheep seasons. I'd say the same of He-Man 2002 compared to the original. To me the best written, best acted and most entertaining Transformers is without question Beast Wars (some might argue TF Animated is even better but I didn't follow that series long enough myself). Transformers G1 was a big show for its time, certainly popular and well received and not inherently terrible but the story lines were not very good at all and neither was the writing in general. None the less it usually gets ranked higher than Beast Wars or TFA if either even make the list. Why? I presume because it was the first and easily the most popular and had the most impact.



It's somewhat reasonable to exclude shows that never aired in the US as long as you're upfront about it. The reason they don't talk about anime is because they don't watch it. Sure to some of us that seems really short-sighted and might feel that any animation enthusiast should probably see at least some of the animated series of other parts of the world if they fancy themselves an animation critic of any kind. None the less, we can't expect everyone to have seen everything out there. You really can't expect anyone to be able to do that. Cultural barriers, inability to find the materials, etc. etc. Some are easier to obtain than others but plenty still elude us to this day.

In one sense I'd argue If someone would vouch that it's a great cartoon it should not be omitted simply because some of the panelists may never have seen it.However, if the other panelists haven't seen it there's little to no chance it was going to make the final list anyway. So they actually "look better and more creditable" by being upfront about not including shows that didn't air in Japan because there's probably some shows that originated in Japan that are top 20 worthy maybe a few that are top 10 but if they omit anything that didn't air in the US they cover their butts when those shows don't make the list.

So the only problem with touting it as the "top 100 cartoons of all time" is it's really "top 100 cartoons of all time that aired in North America and didn't bomb there" which would be why Detective Conan and One Piece wouldn't possibly make even the low 90s on this list because they were a blip on the radar here. Meanwhile Pokemon and DBZ will probably be the two highest for anime. Are they the best anime ever? No, not at all. On most lists you'd see Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion and maybe FLCL rank much higher than them. I think IGN actually ranked Naruto higher than DBZ and if they did, perhaps rightfully so. Some might say Naruto is a better written more interesting story (the first series not Shippuden) than DBZ. Many would also say the original Dragon Ball is better than DBZ but DBZ was more popular by far.
 
Have you actually watched The Real Adventures Mike? It was a great show with interesting stories and a faithful reinvention of the characters.



I hate Evangelion. I hate it I hate it I HATE IT. But even I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the show making top 20. I think IGN was a bit too generous to it though. Evangelion was a show that did eventually air on US television but it's impact was far reaching before Adult Swim ever managed to play it. It was the biggest success for anime that wasn't due to broadcast. This was the show people picked up at the video store out of curiousity and were suddenly thrusted into the world of Japanese animation. For many people it was their first anime even before they watched the likes of Pokemon, DBZ or Sailor Moon. Going by quality alone it can earn it's place in the top 20 regardless of my personal feelings towards it. It's a very well executed show until the ending and as JesuOtaku put it's one of if not the best "monster of the week" shows out there. The universally good parts of the show such as the soundtrack and the animation at points are also good reasons it makes a case for top 20. So with the combination of quality and impact there's certainly a case to rank it top 20.

FLCL was hugely popular here and mostly thanks to Adult Swim. It continues to sell marvelously, it's had multiple runs on television despite being just 6 episodes and most of all it's a unique experience that's pretty well respected among even casual anime watchers. Right up there with Cowboy Bebop.

Paranoia Agent is brilliant and that alone should place it on the top 50 maybe even top 20. It had very little impact and was a blip on the radar but I question if that matters when the show was (and I don't take this lightly) brilliant. It is a masterpiece and a marvel of animation storytelling. You say Death Note earns a spot but this doesn't? Death Note made an impact mostly as a graphic novel the anime in comparison did very poorly on Adult Swim. Paranoia Agent I believe actually got better ratings overall and it was still considered a bomb for them. I'm not arguing Death Note shouldn't make the top 100. It should because it's a unique story and overall a great show and for that reason as well Paranoia Agent should be on the list. I aired here and that's all the criteria an anime needed to be considered.

Bleach didn't really have that strong of an impact. It's the best rated on Adult Swim but has it really affected anything itself? InuYasha in comparison far exceeds Bleach's reach particularly in Canada where InuYasha was as big as DBZ. You can make a case for Naruto though I can't hardly believe IGN ranked it better than DBZ.

If were going by quality scale the best ranked anime should be along the lines of Cowboy Bebop, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, Death Note, One Piece, Mobile Suit Gundam.

If were going by scale of impact the best ranked anime should be along the lines of Astroboy, Gigantor, Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing, Voltron, Robotech, Speed Racer and maybe FLCL

And if you sort of combine those scales you should probably come out with Cowboy Bebop, Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing, Paranoia Agent, FLCL, Death Note and Voltron.
 
This --- erm --- is gonna be a long post.



Let me start here because I think I can give a better answer.

When you're making a list like this there's so much you need to take into account. Lets face it, unless you are making a list with multi-faceted filters, any list is going to be incomplete at best. That doesn't mean its not a worthy endeavorer to try and try again.

If you're going to attempt to include every animation that ever premiered anywhere, ever --- well --- let me put this into perspective: I already have over 1,000 animation series in one of my lists laying around somewhere. That was trying to account for series that had some form of an impact on western culture. I'm not even delving into the massive numbers of series that exist else where in the world. To be perfectly blunt, the first and foremost reason is it's TOO big of a project.

Moving along; whenever you make a list like this its going to be subject to biases just by the predisposition of the people involved in. There's ways to mitigate biases by adding more people to the poll pool or by attempting to weight people's answered based on their pre-disposition. Neither are great answers but the former is certainly easier (and less time consuming) to do then the others.

So if we're already concerned about pre-dispositions of the more then 400 animated series that made its way state side, could you imagine how much more skewed the results would be if you tried to expand the scope of your project to series you never heard of, series you don't understand, series that have deep cultural elements that may make an outstanding series to the citizens of it's influence but you have no idea who the references even refer to or what they are?

You can't reasonably expect a person to be able to give a fair rating to a series they only heard about for the first time ever from a culture he or she is unfamiliar.

Personally I believe that series should really be rated based on their total cultural significance. When doing this however, you need to take into account series that had a VERY HIGH impact with a small ground of people and series that reached a lot of people but probably didn't impact them as much. Of course you also need to take into account series that did both!

At the end of the day, when we talk about an animation and how good it is, the measure should always be "How much do you relate to it?". If a series touches you, if it emboldens you, if it makes you feel good about your fellow man; it has touched you in a way that is culturally significant and thats ultimately what made it good.

When Mike talks on the show about how good a series was for it's time, I absolutely think that's a good stat to take into account for your rankings. I also very much don't think that's the ONLY stat. It should be one of many. To their point though, that isn't the only stat they are looking at.

I tend to feel that the guys over at Geekcast are learning A LOT from this attempt at a list. I personally hope its not going to be their only attempt. I think they've seen and heard thoughts from people that felt other series were culturally significant that they never heard or have been barely been exposed to before this project and probably now have. As I've said previously in this thread, the only way to get better results is to repeat, learn, repeat, learn, repeat, learn.

To tie this all in together with TZ, thats frankly why a forum like this is a great place. ULTIMATELY, we are sharing our views on events and arts that we mutually find culturally significant. We are opening ourselves up to ideas that help scape and define ourselves and our views on a wide range of subjects. It's all about growing and learning =).
 
Yep, 2001.

I haven't seen a list like this I agree with yet, but I'm sure fans will keep on trying in the years to come and will eventually come up with a good one in the near future.
 
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