The problem with such beliefs Big Orn is that there is no standard or line to draw. Those who claim personal relationships are able to litterally cite anything as God's will. Alot of bad stuff has been done in God's name and if God REALLY does talk to mankind in that form, then the question of God's inhernet goodness is in real question. Bin Laden cited God's will as a reason for 9/11, is he insane or is he speaking the truth?
Does God still speak to mankind?
- Thread starter leVel8 the Earth Worm
- Start date
Because we were decieved by Satan. God did not creat animosity with his creations among themselves and Him. Satan rebelled against God, so God cast him out of heaven. same with us, we disobey we face the consequences. He said don't eat the fruit or you will die. We just eselated the matter when Cain killed Abel. why does God punish? because of our sin. The only way back in the Old Testament days to repent of sin was to sacrifise an animal. But, still it gave you no coverage against death, and only temporarily payed for your sin. That is why Jesus came, to become a permanent attonement for our sins.
Anonymous #265
New member
i'm trying to be neutral, taking the issues at face value. i'm coming from the position that the bible contains statements that reality suggests are false (such as miracles happen, there is a supernatural realm, God exists, etc). in christianity, it is required that you believe that these statements are true. note, i havent said that these statements have been proven false, just that they do not correspond with reality. in other worRAB, there is nothing in reality that can confirm or support these statements
concerning your car engine, you have witnessed in reality that the engine runs when you car has gas in it, and doesnt run when the tank is empty, along with countless accounts of other people with cars whose engines behave the same way. so reality suggests that the gas in the tank allows the engine to run. this is not an issue of faith. you have evidence about what causes the engine to run already, so no faith is involved
concerning aliens, i assume that you have never witnessed an alien visitation, manifestation or other evidence of aliens. the vast majority of accounts of alien sightings are either unconfirmed or known hoaxes. therefore, reality suggests that there are no alien visitations. if you still believe that aliens exist and visit earth, this would require faith, since no evidence is available
honestly, believing something on faith alone does not imply that the claim you believe is false. however, believing a lie and believing something on faith are very simililar in that you usually dont think it is a lie, and they both require no evidence.
it makes sense to not believe in something you dont have evidence for, since that thing may be a lie. there is no other way to distinguish a lie from the truth except by comparing the statement to reality. if the statement says it is, and reality says it is, then the statement is true. faith starts off with the statement in question, and not with evidence. while there are things we accept on faith, we must always recognize that it is a just faith-based belief, and it must give way to reality when evidence is presented
concerning your car engine, you have witnessed in reality that the engine runs when you car has gas in it, and doesnt run when the tank is empty, along with countless accounts of other people with cars whose engines behave the same way. so reality suggests that the gas in the tank allows the engine to run. this is not an issue of faith. you have evidence about what causes the engine to run already, so no faith is involved
concerning aliens, i assume that you have never witnessed an alien visitation, manifestation or other evidence of aliens. the vast majority of accounts of alien sightings are either unconfirmed or known hoaxes. therefore, reality suggests that there are no alien visitations. if you still believe that aliens exist and visit earth, this would require faith, since no evidence is available
honestly, believing something on faith alone does not imply that the claim you believe is false. however, believing a lie and believing something on faith are very simililar in that you usually dont think it is a lie, and they both require no evidence.
it makes sense to not believe in something you dont have evidence for, since that thing may be a lie. there is no other way to distinguish a lie from the truth except by comparing the statement to reality. if the statement says it is, and reality says it is, then the statement is true. faith starts off with the statement in question, and not with evidence. while there are things we accept on faith, we must always recognize that it is a just faith-based belief, and it must give way to reality when evidence is presented
badsoccerman
New member
JJ This is what I have been asking ... If god is about or condones killing how can you expect people to just say Oh that's ok ??
BrewCrew09!
New member
Yes, get rest. I want to see someone explain the logical problems and contridictions of the orthodox god concept.
G
!>_<!geeze!>_<!
Guest
Ok well now we are getting into all kinRAB of other issues about this. 1. god had to have created satan also if god created everything... but how is that possible if god is perfect? Are you suggestihg sin is a part of being perfect? 2. Now another problem I'm having is.. adam and eve ate not me, cain killed, not me, how if given free will could god condeme me for what they did? Perhaps I would have acted differntly... I mean I just can't imagine I would ever kill my brother for any reason!! 3. And again you are saying god punishes us because of what god gave us... SIN !!
is there a single book, chapter or verse in the entire bible that can be reliably and undoubtedly accepted as true? are there any modern examples of God's superntural power over the physical realm, his wrath, justice, responsiveness or instruction in modern times, comparative to what is described in the bible?
as for padre pio, reports are mixed as to whether he was a fraud and his stigmatic wounRAB were self-inflicted or not. his miracles were mainly restricted to healing of internal ailments, such as cancers and aches, no different from other evangelists that we hear about all the time. most of his reported miracles are unconfirmed. so were his numerous visions and trances
i have no doubt that it is very possible and even common to will healing into one's body, a sort of advanced mind-over-matter subjection of the body and internal organs, such as is common in tai chi and other oriental medicinal practices. it does not imply divinity in any way
as for padre pio, reports are mixed as to whether he was a fraud and his stigmatic wounRAB were self-inflicted or not. his miracles were mainly restricted to healing of internal ailments, such as cancers and aches, no different from other evangelists that we hear about all the time. most of his reported miracles are unconfirmed. so were his numerous visions and trances
i have no doubt that it is very possible and even common to will healing into one's body, a sort of advanced mind-over-matter subjection of the body and internal organs, such as is common in tai chi and other oriental medicinal practices. it does not imply divinity in any way
First NameLaura
New member
No God cannot creat sin. He is perfect. You see your seeing God in humanistic terms. He gave us choice. WE chose to sin. Second since Adam sinned he instilled sin into existence for all who would follow in his lineage. Being that we all came from Adam, sin followed to each and everyone of us. Third we were born with a sinful nature, that being since yu were not perfect due to your lineage into sin, you could not go to heaven. And since you had sinful nature you were going to sin anyways. Also God created Lucifer GoRAB right hand angel. Lucifer thought he was better than God and led a third of the angels against God. Now they are now fallen angels: demons. THe only way Satan obtains victory is if he gets your soul. That is why Christ died for us. But still satan will enstill trickery into our so called "enlightened minRAB" to make us think we are on a higher plane than God. THAT is the downfall of science and knowledge.
golfguy8899
New member
There is a way to test and see, you know...
It is beyond me how so many people (even hard-core Christians) can say, "I believe in God because I have faith that He is...", and never once tried to obtain or allow themselves to acquire the blessings of God.
There is proof that He is other than the faith in man's heart.
If I had time I would list each and every blessing that I have received over the years. And they were not merely "happenstance". Why not try God and see if He will keep his Word? He don't mind.
Maybe another thread, "Does God still bless" ?????? (although I think it might turn out just like this one.)
God told me once that His Spirit is like a drop of water in the crack of a mighty mountain. When the environment gets its coldest it will expand and burst the rock. This was a time in my life that I prayed God would tell me what to do and with that answer came the solution to many of my problems and the end to countless troubles. It was like worRAB from my own father. You might say, "Why, what does a drop of water bursting rock, which happens quite often in winter, have to do with solving problems or with anything really?" It was not the worRAB that did it, nor was it the explanation of expanding matter, but in the way God applied the natural to the spiritual. It was the utilization of, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, that actually began the chain reaction of blessings. I just had to place myself into position to receive them.
There are many such instances and they all were like two people sitting and having a talk - be it serious like the above or, at times, funny and lighthearted.
So, for my part - Yes, God does still speaks to us.
It is beyond me how so many people (even hard-core Christians) can say, "I believe in God because I have faith that He is...", and never once tried to obtain or allow themselves to acquire the blessings of God.
There is proof that He is other than the faith in man's heart.
If I had time I would list each and every blessing that I have received over the years. And they were not merely "happenstance". Why not try God and see if He will keep his Word? He don't mind.
Maybe another thread, "Does God still bless" ?????? (although I think it might turn out just like this one.)
God told me once that His Spirit is like a drop of water in the crack of a mighty mountain. When the environment gets its coldest it will expand and burst the rock. This was a time in my life that I prayed God would tell me what to do and with that answer came the solution to many of my problems and the end to countless troubles. It was like worRAB from my own father. You might say, "Why, what does a drop of water bursting rock, which happens quite often in winter, have to do with solving problems or with anything really?" It was not the worRAB that did it, nor was it the explanation of expanding matter, but in the way God applied the natural to the spiritual. It was the utilization of, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, that actually began the chain reaction of blessings. I just had to place myself into position to receive them.
There are many such instances and they all were like two people sitting and having a talk - be it serious like the above or, at times, funny and lighthearted.
So, for my part - Yes, God does still speaks to us.
invader_cuban
New member
I can't say what those people hear, Duo. I can say that the God I know, One that has taken all the sin of the world on His shoulders, and died so that we could be free of it, would not order one person to kill another. He even stated that we should pray for our enemies. So, with that in mind, and knowing what I know, I can safely say that it's not the same God.
I do know this: The Person of Christ that lives in me has changed me in more ways than I could ever imagine and after all these years has never given me reason to think He is anything other than pure love...and I will never believe that love could do anything for me or another person but goodness.
I do know this: The Person of Christ that lives in me has changed me in more ways than I could ever imagine and after all these years has never given me reason to think He is anything other than pure love...and I will never believe that love could do anything for me or another person but goodness.
danceloveeex3
New member
But that is merely speculation as well as subjective. There is no hard evidence of any of that.
I don't see why a being of uncomprehendable power would bother with a race that can't even figure out how to solve its basic neeRAB.
People believe in alot of things. Merely telling yourself over and over will achieve many of the same hard stances.
That doesn't prove that god does speak to mankind.
I still don't see why god would even bother.
I don't see why a being of uncomprehendable power would bother with a race that can't even figure out how to solve its basic neeRAB.
People believe in alot of things. Merely telling yourself over and over will achieve many of the same hard stances.
That doesn't prove that god does speak to mankind.
I still don't see why god would even bother.
twilight fan11
New member
i've heard my share of ghost stories as well. whats interesting about ghost stories is that they vary from culture to culture, region to region. there are some ghostly manifestations that only occur in a small part of the world. for instance, in the caribbean there's a particular form of ghost/demon/spirit that wears a big straw hat and has backward turned feet (to confuse those that might want to track it). i grew up in the caribbean (trinidad, actually) and i know plenty people who would swear on there life that these things were real. nowadays those stories have almost completely died out, as well as the theories and explanations surrounding them. its just not as intriguing as it used to be. in other cultures in other parts of the world there are also unique ghost stories with their very convinced story-tellers and seeming rational theories around them.
reality suggests that if ghosts existed, and that ghosts could interact with the physical world, and that every person that ever lived and died can be a potential ghosts, then there probably would be ghosts everywhere. what kind of death would cause someone to become a ghost? what is the ratio of ghosts to regular dead people? what kind of manifestations are these ghosts capable of? there really is no evidence that ghosts exists, so not accepting ghost stories as true would be reasonable
reality suggests that if ghosts existed, and that ghosts could interact with the physical world, and that every person that ever lived and died can be a potential ghosts, then there probably would be ghosts everywhere. what kind of death would cause someone to become a ghost? what is the ratio of ghosts to regular dead people? what kind of manifestations are these ghosts capable of? there really is no evidence that ghosts exists, so not accepting ghost stories as true would be reasonable
Not having seen one, I can understand your not wanting to accept a story. Let me tell you mine:
At one point in grad school I lived in an old house. In the house there was a spot near the cellar that would sometimes be very cold, even in summer; but not always. If you went down into the cellar it was normally cool. But sometimes it would be really cold, for no reason. And it was very difficult, mentally, to go down the cellar stairs when it was cold.
But there's more. One time while studying (yes, college and I've never done hallucinogens) I thought I saw a shadow run by the door. The afterimage on my eyes was of a small girl in a lacy dress. A few weeks later was discussing with roommates, and another person in the house had seen the same thing. We were both amazed that our descriptions were so similar.
More: Once while sitting near the cellar I was, again, studying. It was warm. Then, the hair on the back of my neck went up, and it became very cold. I said, "Hello, Anna" then a couple seconRAB later the cold went away.
Why Anna? Some of the people in the house were history grad students, and they researched the house and the people that had lived in it. A little girl, about 5 years old named Anna had lived in the house in the 1800's, and died there.
Their research showed that Anna liked to bake, and had died at about 5 years of age. The baking was, if I remember correctly, documented in a letter from Anna's parents to a relative. They even found a picture of three little girls, that were said to be the children that had lived in the house. The middle child was said to be Anna. She was wearing a lace dress in the picture.
The history majors framed the picture and put it on the mantle over the fireplace. A few days later, we came into the house and the picture had fallen off the shelf. A single crack ran from top to bottom through the middle of the glass - right through Anna's picture. There were no other cracks or damage of any kind to either frame, glass, or pictures.
What really clinched it for me though was this:
Once while I was studying in the house, the oven door opened by itself. Ka-bam. I was in the other room and went to investigate. I go to see what's up, find it open. I tested the spring - normal. I open it a couple inches, it closes back up by itself. I'd have to pull it down to within a few degrees of horizontal to get it to stay horizontal. Humph. Close the oven and back to the living room. Couple minutes later, it slammed open again. There was no one else in the house and the doors were locked. It was freaky, but I went back near to the cellar - yep, it was ice cold.
At one point in grad school I lived in an old house. In the house there was a spot near the cellar that would sometimes be very cold, even in summer; but not always. If you went down into the cellar it was normally cool. But sometimes it would be really cold, for no reason. And it was very difficult, mentally, to go down the cellar stairs when it was cold.
But there's more. One time while studying (yes, college and I've never done hallucinogens) I thought I saw a shadow run by the door. The afterimage on my eyes was of a small girl in a lacy dress. A few weeks later was discussing with roommates, and another person in the house had seen the same thing. We were both amazed that our descriptions were so similar.
More: Once while sitting near the cellar I was, again, studying. It was warm. Then, the hair on the back of my neck went up, and it became very cold. I said, "Hello, Anna" then a couple seconRAB later the cold went away.
Why Anna? Some of the people in the house were history grad students, and they researched the house and the people that had lived in it. A little girl, about 5 years old named Anna had lived in the house in the 1800's, and died there.
Their research showed that Anna liked to bake, and had died at about 5 years of age. The baking was, if I remember correctly, documented in a letter from Anna's parents to a relative. They even found a picture of three little girls, that were said to be the children that had lived in the house. The middle child was said to be Anna. She was wearing a lace dress in the picture.
The history majors framed the picture and put it on the mantle over the fireplace. A few days later, we came into the house and the picture had fallen off the shelf. A single crack ran from top to bottom through the middle of the glass - right through Anna's picture. There were no other cracks or damage of any kind to either frame, glass, or pictures.
What really clinched it for me though was this:
Once while I was studying in the house, the oven door opened by itself. Ka-bam. I was in the other room and went to investigate. I go to see what's up, find it open. I tested the spring - normal. I open it a couple inches, it closes back up by itself. I'd have to pull it down to within a few degrees of horizontal to get it to stay horizontal. Humph. Close the oven and back to the living room. Couple minutes later, it slammed open again. There was no one else in the house and the doors were locked. It was freaky, but I went back near to the cellar - yep, it was ice cold.
HarleyLady
New member
this is not necessarily lying to yourself
faith: there is a posibility greater than zero that the statement could be true
lie: there is zero possibility that the statement could be true
thats essentially the difference
like i said above, some things that are believed by faith can be compared with reality to see if they are true or not. in fact, every statement you accept as true must be tested in this manner. those that fail the test or cannot be tested cannot be accepted as true
faith: there is a posibility greater than zero that the statement could be true
lie: there is zero possibility that the statement could be true
thats essentially the difference
like i said above, some things that are believed by faith can be compared with reality to see if they are true or not. in fact, every statement you accept as true must be tested in this manner. those that fail the test or cannot be tested cannot be accepted as true
phone expert
New member
Thanks to both of you. I will research what I can. Don't worry I will get plenty of rest tonight.
viky_khanna
New member
a very intriguing story, i must say. have there been any sightings lately? about how old were you at the time?
i remember as a child looking up at the sky just at the moment that a pair of pteradactyls were flying overhead. i watched them fly off into the distance and never saw them again. i know lots of people that have told me similar stories of strange happenings when they were children. in fact, ancient lore suggests that children are much better at discerning the spiritual realm than adults, and it may also be the reason why jesus encourages his followers to become more child-like, especially in the things of faith
i'm not suggesting that your experience must have been your mind playing tricks on your just because you were young, but it is common that such stories occur in childhood much more frequently than adulthood. its something worth studying but science probably wouldnt know where to start
i remember as a child looking up at the sky just at the moment that a pair of pteradactyls were flying overhead. i watched them fly off into the distance and never saw them again. i know lots of people that have told me similar stories of strange happenings when they were children. in fact, ancient lore suggests that children are much better at discerning the spiritual realm than adults, and it may also be the reason why jesus encourages his followers to become more child-like, especially in the things of faith
i'm not suggesting that your experience must have been your mind playing tricks on your just because you were young, but it is common that such stories occur in childhood much more frequently than adulthood. its something worth studying but science probably wouldnt know where to start
SounRAB like I'm being baited a bit. 
No sightings lately, and if you read the post I was in grad school at the time so this was not a childhood fantasy, unless I was still a child at 32 (arguable, I know).
"The more I know, the more I know I don't know." I forget who said it, but IMO it's true.
No sightings lately, and if you read the post I was in grad school at the time so this was not a childhood fantasy, unless I was still a child at 32 (arguable, I know)."The more I know, the more I know I don't know." I forget who said it, but IMO it's true.
The man of faith believes man is responsible for all the suffering of the world
The man of faith believes God is to be thanked for all that is good, lest he be damned
The man of faith believes evil is a force within man
The man of faith believes we are nothing without God
The man of faith believes his God need not be rational, and defenRAB his God's irrationality
The man of faith believes he need not apologize for his God because his God is infallible
The man of faith believes he is incapable of good by his own will, and must be instructed by God
The man of faith believes that God's wrath is just
The man of faith believes that God's mercy is boundless
The man of faith believes his God is the best God, above all the other GoRAB
All that is good is of God
All that is evil is of man
God must be a woman
Given that paradigm, it's no wonder we need Prozac...
What I choose to believe is that there is a force of good will among mankind of which we became conscious when we were able to experience the pain and pleasure of others, and we momentarily forgot ourselves. When we believe we are doing the most good for the most people on the planet, we are balanced and content as humans. When our behavior is inconsistent with that belief, we are not in agreement with the rest of humanity, and thus not within ourselves. God is the collective consciousness of good will among mankind. It is learned; but when tempted to act on one's own desires, it is conveniently forgotten. The better man becomes at forgetting his own desires, the more human he becomes. When he chooses merely to act on his own desires, the more animal he becomes.
Bliss is the state in which there is no desire; all is forgotten. Learn to forget.
The man of faith believes God is to be thanked for all that is good, lest he be damned
The man of faith believes evil is a force within man
The man of faith believes we are nothing without God
The man of faith believes his God need not be rational, and defenRAB his God's irrationality
The man of faith believes he need not apologize for his God because his God is infallible
The man of faith believes he is incapable of good by his own will, and must be instructed by God
The man of faith believes that God's wrath is just
The man of faith believes that God's mercy is boundless
The man of faith believes his God is the best God, above all the other GoRAB
All that is good is of God
All that is evil is of man
God must be a woman
Given that paradigm, it's no wonder we need Prozac...
What I choose to believe is that there is a force of good will among mankind of which we became conscious when we were able to experience the pain and pleasure of others, and we momentarily forgot ourselves. When we believe we are doing the most good for the most people on the planet, we are balanced and content as humans. When our behavior is inconsistent with that belief, we are not in agreement with the rest of humanity, and thus not within ourselves. God is the collective consciousness of good will among mankind. It is learned; but when tempted to act on one's own desires, it is conveniently forgotten. The better man becomes at forgetting his own desires, the more human he becomes. When he chooses merely to act on his own desires, the more animal he becomes.
Bliss is the state in which there is no desire; all is forgotten. Learn to forget.