Can I be in "recovery" while taking Suboxone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kewood
  • Start date Start date
reach,
Thanks so much for your kind & very thoughtful reply. It has given me alot to think about in terms of my own opinions, judgements, doubts. I guess I have to trust that the path I am on is the right one for me and if it becomes clear that it is not...I hope I will know enough to change that path, or have the strength to change it.
I have thought about advertising in our local paper for a suboxone support group. I'm a little scared to, like what if someone finRAB out it's me.....etc. But then I think, who cares. I can't buy into the stigma of this disease. People wouldn't think twice if I started a diabetes support group or breast cancer support group. I do believe that addiction is a brain disease and have to stop worrying about "what will they think if they find out?" Who is "they" anyway!?
Thanks so much for your supportive comments. I'm going to bed feeling much better tonight after reading your post. I really appreciate it. I'm going to stick around this place for support to.

Take care,
Kew
 
Hi Joel,
Thanks so much for your kind worRAB and encouragement. I may try to go to meetings again, I've been feeling alienated and isolated trying to "do this" all by myself. I'm currently on 12mg of Subutex and have been on it for 15 months now. I'm kind of past the point of feeling guilty for being on it and know that it's something I need in my life right now to keep me fairly stable and working my recovery program. I can't bear the thought of trying to struggle and go off of it, not now, I'm just not feeling strong enough to take on that challenge and I don't feel as doubtful about being "in sobriety" as I did in the beginning. I think you are right, this journey, my sobriety, it's between me and a higher power, and nobody else. I don't have to answer to anybody else's judgement of me and what I do or don't do to stay sober and not using my drug of choice. I live in a very small community where everyone seems to know everyone and sometimes the AA or NA meetings really can get like a big disfunctional family! Well, I appreciate your story and your own struggle. It gives me hope to hear that people who are not so different from me and who share similar struggles can feel happy and free. I sure hope to be there someday. I can't make it happen and do believe it will happen in time so I will just patiently wait and work my recovery in the best way I can and perhaps one day will wake up feeling just a little lighter and a little happier...then I can truly have hope. Not that I don't have hope right now, it's just a time in my life when the rollercoaster is down low and I'm waiting for it to come on back up....thanks for writing! You made my day! Take care, Joel.

KEW
 
Hi and thanks for your reply. By advising people to "follow doctors' advice" I refer only to taking (i.e., "trying") the medications legitimately prescribed, in the exact amounts prescribed and not to try any others on one's own without talking to the doctor. Otherwise I agree with you about the medical profession. I have not yet met a shrink (and I've met a lot) who was a recovered addict and really knows what it feels like. Worse yet, today shrinks only prescribe drugs. They do not offer cognative therapy. Addiction is one symptom of a deeper underlying psychological or psychiatric problem for which people self-medicate. The question is how can an addict be guided to face the problem all the while fighting the battle of physical and psychological addiction. Keep in mind also that drugs are not the only problems. It appears to me just looking around the sreets of LA that there are are a lot of obese, morbidly obese, super obese and super super obese people who try to eat their problems away.

The sad fact is that only about 2-3% of addicts achieve and maintain a full recovery for life. These nurabers are "best guesses" from the medical profession based on various criteria. AA won't participate in a study on the ground that it's merabers are anonymous and they don't maintain any lists anyway. Neither do local AA central offices or meeting groups.

A lot of people don't relate to "twelve step programs" such as AA. And no one; repeat - no one - has the capability or authority to tell another person what they should do to recover. I chose AA and ended up getting sober 25 years ago. But I didn't do a damn thing except "work" the first step - i.e., admitted that I was an alcoholic and that I couldn't stand it anymore. I didn't have a sponsor, undergo a written or oral "fourth step". I tried to stay sober for years, went through two 30 day "recovery" programs and nothing happened - except that one day with no fanfare I felt the compulsion to drink leave me and it hasn't come back. I don't know why it happened. I certainly didn't do anything to deserve it. I can't stand AA meetings anymore although I occasionally go with a newcomer.

Now there is some guy on TV hawking his book "Passages" telling people in a few hundred pages how to get sober and stay that way. He also runs a recovery center of the same name in expensive digs in Malibu where all the stars go to run and hide after getting caught driving 100 mph down the Pacific Coast Highway drunk out of their minRAB. Google the place and see what they offer and guess how much it costs. It appears to me to be a monetary speed trap but I wouldn't advise anyone not to read the book or check into the place if they can afford it.

AA has one advantage over any other "get sober" program there is: it's available 24/7 to whoever neeRAB help, for some people they can call someone and admit for the first time to an anonymous person that they are alcoholic (that's the AA first step which, if taken to heart can keep a person sober for life), they meet on the telephone, and perhaps the first time, a person who is kind, understanding and non-judgemental. In Los Angeles there are thousanRAB of AA meetings per week in every nook and cranny of this 4,000+ sq. mi county with a population in excess of 10.5 million people - more than the entire state of Michigan. There are many local "Alano Clubs" - formed just to provide space for AA meetings and many are open 24/7. And its all FREE!

So, if you receive a call from the AA answering service at your home at 3:00 am on a Monday morning and put on the line with someone who is drunk, confused, crying and calling from an all night restaurant with the waitresses screaming into the phone for AA to come and pick him up what would you do? In LA County the paramedics refuse to pick up alcoholics. Well, they did that time. The guy grabbed the phone, tried to talk to me, aspirated on his own vomit and died on the spot. The waitresses were relieved.

If someone called you, admitted their alcoholism (probably for the first time) and asked you, a sober alcoholic, what to do, what advice would you give? If there is a sober person around with the alcoholic what do you tell him to do to avoid a fatal seizure as the person recovers. Remeraber that there's probably no Atavan or other anti-seizure drugs around and the paramedics wouldn't help. Where should she be "checked in to"? Hospitals wouldn't take her. And what's the fist thing she should do when she gets sober and the hangover wears off?

Reconsider your generalized dismissal of AA and the medical profession and think this thing through again.
 
Heh Kim am pretty sure ye mean 2011 unless your a year ahead of me which ye probably are, all the best of luck for 2011.:wave:
 
Hi Iian/Karen
Thanks to you both I needed to hear what both of you said. Iian you are so right they were bad times really bad. Sometimes the brain tricks you into thinking about the good experiences the so called "Good Highs" and conveniently forgets the bad ones. It just cause my cravings are not under control and dealing with alot of personal issues.
Karen I did what you said and went for a good ride. It helped to re focus and remind me that I am only riding again because i'm off the drugs. I also had my review. The way it works here is I am registered in a Opiate Substitution program and get reviewed monthly. Because I was on that anti depressant they have been unable to stabilise me on higher dose. Now that I am of it they are uping the dose which should help alot. I feel for you with the depression side of things I have battled it for 30+ years. You just got to ride the wave my friend it will get better. It takes time for all the brain chemicals to sort themselves out. They have warned me I might have what is called rebound depression after coming off the meRAB after 30 years. So far so good:confused: I really want to try and manage the emotions without meRAB its my thoughts that get me. Sometimes there are so many of them I can hear them. Then add to that flasrabroadacks and disassociation and it can get a bit much. So may have to go back on something but will see how new dose goes.
Iian not sure if you ever told us but what are you studying? I been contemplating doing some study myself one I stabilise enough. When I get through all this I want to be able to use what I have learnt to help others especially Young People.
Thanks for being there both of you at the moment you are my anchor. I really really want to make it this time I just havnt got to the point that I believe that I can as I have tried so many times before and failed. This time I have lots of support so if I cant do it this time I never will.
Tks
Kim :wave:
 
Hi Guys
Kew there is no easy answer and unfortunately form what I am learning it does take a bit of hard work. But the way I am trying to look at it is I have this amazing opportunity to put my life back together again and each time I am ready to face another challenge then one comes my way. I believe that we will never be given anyting more than we can cope with. We often see ourselves as weak when in fact we are very strong. When I share with people what I am going through ( and thats not alot of people the trust thing) they are mazed that I can do this work full time and have reasonable quality of life. We are unique;) I too struggle with thoughts and the need to constantly keep them in check. The self harming thoughts are very strong at the moment and I have had a couple of relapses with this. I believe it is because I am no longer nurabing my memories and the feelings and thoughts that come with those. The hardest thing is to not act on the thought. I believe we will always be challenged with thoughts of using, self harm etc as these are the tools we used to cope with out trauma from the past. Its learning new ways to cope and to allow the thoughts to be there but choose not to act on them. I dont know how many times a day I think about using it would be numerous, but with the cravings under control I can acknowledge the thought and then let it go as I make the choice to not act on it. You sound so much like me. I am inclined to think ahead and allow my thoughts to get away from me with thinking what if this happens or this happens? You know none of us knows when our time will be up and to waste time worrying about what might happen is pointless. Living in the now is a challenge believe me I know. You will find that if you are having therapy and dealing with some of the trauma the old coping methoRAB will come flooding back, as our subconscious mind has not caught up yet and still thinks that this is the way to deal with the pain, shame, guilt etc. We have to train our mind all over again. It does get easier and I believe staying sober is definelty worth the fight as we all know how much worse things get when we use. I have been really depressed the past week and have wanted to clirab under a bed somewhere and stay there for ever. My drug addiction and mental illness have all but destroyed my marriage and I struggle to come to terms with this. My husband is tired and just does not understand depression at all and reacts badly when I am depressed. I found myself thinking way ahead and pondering on what will happen if we dont make it. This put me into quite a state and led to some minor self harming stuff and self hatred crept back in. The hardest person to forgive and to trust again is oursleves. When you feel that sinking feeling and chaos breaks loose in your head reach out to someone you can trust and let them help you through it. Remeraber that this too will pass. It wasnt that long ago you were on top of the world and you will be again. Ride the wave and you will soon have your feet back on the ground again and asking yourself "what the hell was that all about."
Talk to the little girl inside you and tell her that it will all be ok that you will not hurt her. I know you know what I mean when I say this.
Iain thanks for your little statements I get love them and they really help pick me up. Keep searching for those angles mate they are there;) Stay strong!
ILB
 
ilovebikes07;

Heh Kim i can`t talk for long been crazy busy:dizzy: lately with college and stuff thought i`d better keep in touch just incase ye might`ve thought i`d dropped off the face of the planet, hope you are well i`ll try and make time soon to annoy you more. Take care Iain.:rolleyes:
 
Hi Iain
Hey great to hear from you. I was only thinking of you both recently and thought must say hi. Well good to hear you are well and going strong. Is it nearly the end of the study year for you? I am going pretty well. Back at work after four weeks leave :( and in my business it gets very busy towarRAB christmas. I work in a youth prison. The all seem to want to come home for christmas. The last time we spoke I wasnt doing so good and I had my dose increased. So am doing much better now. I try not to think about the fact that I am still an addict or recovering addict as long as I have to take something., All I know is that I am a hell of a lot better than I was 6 months ago. Good luck with all your exams and well done.
take care
kim
 
Dear Iain, Scotland, wow that must be an amazing place. I hear it is beautiful anyways. My daughter's best friend, her mother is from there and it is funny because my daughter is from south carolina and has a very pronounced southern accent and when she gets mad she says "I bloody well will" or some other such phrase. lol. I am glad to hear the worRAB of encouragement. I am getting injections next month in my neck and shoulders. But you are right about the argument going on in my head. It is driving me nuts! I just got my script and I am determined to cut down and try the taper. I have horrible neck pain so I am not doing as well as I originally planned. I am cutting the pills in half and trying to take 60mg daily instead of 120. I may have to go up to 75 though. Hopefully next month after the injections I can taper further. I hate laying on a bed hurting and wide awake but not being able to do much. I guess the oxys kept me in a fog. I didn't realize cause i slept so much. It is crazy. But thank you again for your encouraging worRAB.
 
Kewood,

I have been on Subxone for 15 months. I have been clean for 15 months. Since the day I started Suboxone, my life has changed in the following ways...

I no longer crave Oxycontin and Percocet (not even a little craving),
I no longer have to count pills to make sure I can get through another day,
I no longer arrange to get money, nor do I even contemplate to wonder where I can get them.

I am back to my normal self,
I love life and look forward to each day (something I did NOT do when I was abusing pills),
I play with my kiRAB instead of isolating inside.

There is so much more but I think you get my point.

Each one of us is different and we have our own morals and values, however the most important thing to be aware of is that you are taking medicine prescribed by your doctor and not something you prescribed to yourself - make sense?

Kewood, you are on a very good path in your recovery. Set goals, do stuff that makes you happy and anticipate each day as another chance to get your life back. Each time I look back, I realize how far I have come. I will be on Suboxone for the rest of my life (something my addictions doctor and I decided was my best option). I do not feel as though I am still using, simply because I have never looked forward to taking my Sub.

Keep in touch, and remeraber - You only get one shot at this thing called life!

Take care,
emsmom
 
Heh Karen sounRAB like you`ve had a pretty taxing period, first things first don`t feel you ever need to be sorry for talking, talking is the corner stone to feeling better, if i had to say sorry for ever time i rabbled on i`d constantly be saying sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry.
:dizzy: I`m really sorry tae hear about yer wee Da, am nae even gonna try and understand how your feeling cause no one can really know how these types of situations affect everybody individually, what i will say is you deserve a massive pat on the back for managing to fight those impure thoughts that drugs are the only way you could cope with your father passing away, if am honest i don`t know how i would cope if i was in that position.

If your Klonopin is keepng you stable that can only be a good thing, about being scared maybe you could try and figure out what exactly your scared of cause once you do that then you can start to do somethin about it, being lonely Welcome to my world! I drive myself crazy with this, i have plenty of frienRAB and i know that there`s a few of them i can go to with anything and talk, even with all this i still get bouts of lonelyness, to this day i can`t explain it and the harder i try to understand it the more confussing it gets.

But never mind i suppose we`re all just wee lonely souls looking for answers to questions we`ve had for soo long that we`ve forgotten what they were.

Is this just life? Am not sure but i think so.

I wish i was there to give you a hug cause it sounRAB like that may help.

I hope you don`t really mean what you say when you said you want to die cause lets be honest that would be the easy option, life has a habit of trying to trip us up with these situations, what you could do is stick two fingers up and say NO THIS IS NOT GOING TO BEAT ME! I mean am no expert but to say that i`ve considered taking my own life would be an understatement, so ye see you not as alone as your head may have you think. Dig deep this will pass of that you can be sure. I suppose i should say am sorry cause when it comes to blabbering on and on and on and on and on i am the master.
Am gonna ask ye tae dae me one favour that is to please take care. Your long distance friend Iain.
 
Hi ILB,
I think it will get better, I know it gets easier but it seems like a rollercoaster is the most constant way of describing recovery, at least for me. There are times it's really hard, times it's easier, times you even forget you're an addict and fighting this thing (I could use some of that now!!) and times it just "is". I've been trying really hard to notice my thoughts and messages in my head whenever I'm feeling really down or struggling. I try to identify what the thought or message is and usually it's something negative like, "I'm a loser b/c I can't live life sober & happy", or "my life is being wasted because of the stupid mistakes I've made"....then I corabat that message with something like,"life is a struggle for everyone, there are good and bad days and today can be a good day if I make it that", or "I made mistakes like everyone does, and now I'm taking responsibility and doing positive things for myself and my life so I'll be happy and can look forward to good things". Sometimes I don't believe the positive stuff I make myself say or think but I do it anyway because I do think it helps. Act as if.....I've heard that hundreRAB of times and I really do think it works. I'm sorry you've been having a tough time of it lately. I do hope that the increase in the sub will help you to feel better. I also take an anti-depressant, Effexor, and also just began taking Abilify, which is an anti-psychotic but also used to help boost an anti depressant that isn't working as well as it used to. The first couple of weeks on the Abilify I felt great! I was really energized, thinking positively, feeling really good and then it just kind of flattened out. I have to keep telling myself, nobody feels good ALL of the time. I need to be realistic in my recovery and if I have some days that are great, a few that are ok and a bad one here and there, that it is OK, that is life and I need to accept it. I realized that the messages I got as a child didn't necessarily set me up for reality as I got older and became an adult. I need to go back in my head and change those messages so that I can accept life as it is and now how I think it should be....I'll be thinking of you and wishing you well. Please keep me posted on how the increase in the sub goes for you! Take care! I put a good 150 miles on the bike this past weekend~! What fun!

KEW
 
Heh Kim just checking in incase ye thought i`d ran away and joined the forieign legion, NOT YET, How`s the mood swing`s? Still i wee bit like a rollercoaster ride; one minute up, next minute down, then upside down, will it ever end? who knows? I often feel like am tied into a rollercoaster with a staight jacket on just tae keep me warm and cosy in my own crazy little world:dizzy: I`ve kind`ve accepted that i will always be emotionally unbalanced, but i really don`t mind it`s these little things that make me different from anyone else.:rolleyes: I can`t even begin to tell you how cold it is here at the moment -8 yesterday (sunday 12th Dec) during the day i don`t think it could get any colder well i hope not anyway, my wee toes thought i`d left them behind somewhere they were that cold. Did i mention i have quit a crazy wee head on top of my shoulders.:dizzy: Am gonna go and leave ye inpeace now incase i don`t get a chance to write before christmas, have a fabolous crirabo and a gentle new year. Your very long distance friend. Iain,View attachment 431This is me and my wee mate Justin my frienRAB wee boy now ye can put a face to all the crazy comments. Take Care.
 
and of course, "the wisdom to know the difference"! Sometimes I think I can change the things I can't!!
 
Heh iLB thamks for the positive feedback you really are, a shiney shiney star.
Don`t know if you`ve heard of this group "FLEETWOOD MAC" but if you can check out their song "DON`T STOP" and listen to the worRAB carefully, i`ve heard this song so many times and loved the tune but never really listened to it. Lately though i`ve been a wee bit more receptive with everything and really listened to the lyrics of this song AMAZING what you miss when yer too busy being a spaceman/woman. Also "QUEEN" and "I WANT TO BREAK FREE."
 
Hi Guys
Well done Iain on the college. It will be good for you i'm sure. I am with Kew go easy on the relationship stuff. Been there done that if its the real thing it will wait. I am so with you. I would love nothing more than to sit with you guys and have a coffee and chat. Maybe one day. I am heading overseas in 2012 who knows? I feel amazingly close to you both I just know it was meant to be that we all found each other.
Kew I wish I could help you with your thoughts mate. I have a son with Bi-Polar and he has described to me how his thoughts take him over. He did some intensive therapy mainly CBT and this helped him alot. He is only 28 and is now doing so amazingly well. He had major drug issues and nearly died. Now he is medication free and just got engaged. I am so proud of him. I can ask him for some advice for you if you would like? He has amazed his therapist so much that they are now using him to do a dvd for eductional purposes on drug addiction and mental illness.
I struggle myself with thoughts and more recently flash backs from past trauma. This often trigger s off dis association episodes. It is difficult at times to not get all absorbed in the many thoughts and pictures that flood into my head. I try and distract myself do something else. Take my dogs for a walk to the beach, listen to some music (fleetwood mac good Iain;)) watch a movie or go for a ride. Riding is always a winner it clears the head and can really help. There is no quick easy fix my friend you just have to chip away at twhat it is that is causing all those thoughts to keep harrassing you. Writting them all down too can help. If they are getting the better of yu talk to your doctor about your meRAB they may need adjusting. Oh and most definetly we dont want you gone so dying is not an option I would be so sad and I know that Iain would too. It will get better and remeraber what I said about riding the wave? This too will pass give it time. I have been seeing a phyc and dealing with my past, it sure as hell stirs up some stuff but I know that if I push through this time then the demons will be put to rest once and for all. There is enough people out there that are willing to put us down so dont let yourself be another one. Those old tapes that play "I am no good, I am useless, I will never be free of this, I am just a druggie, no one could ever love me, etc., etc., etc., You are special, unique one of a kind and on an incredible journey of self discovery that will ultimately lead to your freedom.
Lets stay strong together holding hanRAB accross the globe AWESOME! Iain have a wonderful week and i never get tired of reading you I think you are great and love reading your messages they make me smile and laugh something I have not done for a long time:) Thanks to you both for being there:wave:
ILB
 
I was an absolutely clean person until a Dr. put me on Norcos at 33. Little did I know that mix that w/stress and a year or two, that I would be taking 10-15 at a time, depending on what I could afford, and the w/drawls literally did drive me to hang myself. There was only one rehab in my small town, and they wouldn't bother w/certifying for Suboxone. I had to go out of town. It saved my life. Here's the real deal: you cannot expect your brain's normal chemistry to bounce back after years of artificial stimulation. It takes at least a year. Quit letting people put guilt trips on you...it's your body, your business, and you are trying to get better, not self-medicate. You don't have to answer to anyone. Plus, we all heal at different rates, not just physically either. My Dr. sees lots of former opiate addicts, and one girl said that she doesn't know what it is, but just that little 2mg (maintenance) is her safety net...mine too. I went from 8mg, down to 4, then the Dr. wanted to see if I could go off of it. I did, did have a few tiny w/drawls, but if you wean very slowly (down to crurabs), then they're almost nothing. I have back/neck pain from 2 bad wrecks and age, but I know I'm not "addicted". Then my Dr. let me switch to Subutex (no naloxone), but that took 2 or 3 years. I don't feel guilty in the least. Yes, I have a brother who considers me an "addict" (you know the kind that love to throw the past in your face), but I know in my heart there's no comparison. You and I were on the same meRAB for about the same time, and I am shocked to see all this stigma attached to the drug I fought so hard to finally get in this town. I did 30 days of meetings, then I let it go. I just put it behind me b/c I have the cure now, and it's worked. The thoughts get less and less frequent, truly. Funny I also wake up to panic attacks and just this awful feeling, but I had that before. The worst thing you can do is quit...you'll relapse. Give it time. You're human. Just be you, and don't be so hard on yourself! Healing takes time.
 
Back
Top