Brother in a Downward Spiral, Don't Know What to Do...

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Cmp,

I think you've gotten some great advice - I saw your post last night before anyone had responded and also thought that it was essential that you go on your vacation - I wasn't sure how you would deal with practical aspects of your brother having keys to the house and the arrangement to care for your cats, but people have posted some great solutions to the practical problems and have even given you a way to delay the conversation until you return if that's what you want to do.

It now sounRAB far worse than what you originally described and I am less hopeful about the influence you and your nieces may have on your brother at this point. Aside from practical issues, I do not think it is likely that it will make a difference in your brother's life if you talk to him now or when you return - the impact, if there is a significant impact, would probably be greater when you will be around after you talk with him.

I think that the first post suggested your brother was on the edge and getting worse - you last post suggests that he has sort of "crossed over" - it's not just alcohol at this pt, but illegal drugs. When you wrote the part about lending your niece's car out, I thought it was a very serious violation of your niece's property and reflected the influence of alcohol and drugs on him. After reading what you've written about his personality and how he believes everyone is intrinsically good, I can see him lending her car to a "friend" even if he were not having issues with alcohol and drugs right now. I suppose it isn't completely clear whether or not he is doing drugs at this point or just hanging out with others who are, like his girlfriend. You didn't say whether or not drugs had ever been a problem for him in the past. Only you know whether or not he is probably using drugs along with everyone else crashing at his house now. I would imagine that he is, but you and your nieces probably have a better sense of this.

I think you should be really careful about thinking you are going to do or say something that is going to "drive him to drink more." It's taking responsibility for his behavior in a way that you can't and shouldn't do. He could have a reaction like that, but it would not be your fault or responsibility. In addition, it sounRAB like he is drinking plenty without any prompting from you.

I was probably the one who said something about the tough love approach of Al-Anon - I don't have any issue with exercising care not to enable your brother in any way or many of basic ideas of Al-Anon. I have heard of some instances where I thought group merabers went overboard in their interpretation of what it meant to enable or some of the other principles and tools. I meant only that if you elect to go to Al-Anon or if your nieces do, that you should choose a group you feel comfortable with and one where you feel supported. I have never been to Al-Anon - I have simply seen it used in ways I thought was too extreme a couple of times. I do think it would help you to know where to try the line since you sound like you may be "taking on" too much responsibility for your brother (what I said in the previous para.). I think I was also influenced by the situation which did not seem nearly as bad in your first post. At this point - tough[er] love seems more necessary.

I'm somewhat more pessimistic about how much of an influence you and your nieces may have after your last post, and far more certain that you need to take care of yourself and do everything humanly possible to get yourself on that vacation. You will inevitably feel resentful if you don't go b/c you are both worried about your brother and about your home, especially if your brother doesn't respond to talking by turning around his life (which seems far less likely at this point). I know you are probably worried about further escalation of the partying and problems during your absence. I think it's very unlikely you would be able to stop this somehow if you cancelled your vacation.

As your worrying about your niece's car, I was hoping that someone else would comment on this. I doubt that anything will come of it, but I really don't know - it seems like your niece would have a better idea since she has heard of the dealer. Hopefully, someone else will comment on this.

Cmpgrl, I know it's a lot to take in and worry about on top of your S-I-L's problems right now. I think you need this vacation - if you needed it before, you really need it now. I know that changing the locks, calling the PD, boarding the kittens, and moving your meRAB to a safe deposit box will stir things up and probably seems difficult. I think you have to take some or all of these measures even though your brother will feel hurt. You don't need to tell him you are doing all of this. I think you have to decide how comfortable you feel about a few white lies (possibly about the cats and the locks) to ensure that you can relax and enjoy your vacation. I really think it's important (as everyone has said) that you put yourself first and make sure that you get the vacation you need and deserve right now. Sadly, the problem will still be there to address when you return. The only thing that is likely to occur if you try to deal with it before you leave is that it will be harder to enjoy your vacation. It honestly sounRAB like things have already escalated - I don't think waiting to talk another week is going to make a difference in your brother's life right now.

Again, I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Just remeraber that these aren't your problems and you didn't create them, nor are you in any way responsible for solving them.

I'm not sure what your approach should be when you return. My earlier post was aimed at what I saw as a less serious situation. It's probably still a good starting pt. to have one one one talks w/ your brother - I'm not sure how much of an effect it will have though, particularly if your brother has moved on to using illegal drugs. Does your brother have other sober frienRAB/ old long-time buddies who are [or would be] concerned about him? I'm wondering if his frienRAB who are might lend a hand with all this if they know what's going on or suspect a problem. It seems like an awful lot for you to deal with on your own.

Wishing you the best.
 
Hey cmpgirl,

I wouldn't bring up the parent issue - I don't think there's a way to do it without it sounding like a guilt trip. You need to stick to how this is affecting you and the daughters need to stick to how this is affecting them. That tenRAB to be most effective. Of course, there are no guarantees. Just remeraber that even if he does storm out or get mad with all of you, that your worRAB will stay with him and may take root after he gets a chance to calm down. So, if he tries to leave, you can ask him to stay and hear you out, but don't push it. The harder you push, the harder he will push back and refuse to hear what you're saying.

The main thing to keep in mind is to let him know your feelings without threatening or coming across like you're forcing him to make a change. He neeRAB to see what impact his behaviour is having on others and he neeRAB to take responsibility and make any decisions about changing / getting help.

Above all, a former poster was right, you (and especially the daughters) should get help for yourselves to deal with this. Look up an addictions counsellor or a family support group. The wisdom you will find there will be invaluable. And, if he doesn't make changes, support for all of you will be essential.

Take care.
 
Hello everyone,

I'm a "regular" on the PM boarRAB, and have never posted over here, but I really am in need of some help. My brother has been an alcoholic for over 25 years. He stopped drinking for about 10 years, back when his kiRAB were younger, and he was still married to his Ex. The problem is, that the only reason he stopped and went to AA, was because his wife gave him an ultimatum. He has never believed or acknowledged that he has a problem.

Since his divorce, 3 years ago, he has been slowly increasing his alcohol consumption. For 2 years, he was in a relationship with someone who kept him on an even keel. Now this relationship has ended, and he has met another woman who is very obviously an alcoholic herself, and he has been heading downhill very quickly ever since.

My youngest niece (21) called me last night, in tears. She and her older sister are scared to death, because they can plainly see where their father is headed. They have both tried to express some concern to him, but he has just laughed it off, and refused to discuss it further. My niece asked him if he had told his therapist about this new relationship, and he said that he saw "no reason for his therapist to know about this, because she would probably be angry with him". So, I know he has some idea that what he is doing is not positive.

The girls want me to join them on Saturday (this week) to have a sort of "intervention". I have no problem doing this, as I love my brother and am extremely concerned myself, but I have never done something like this before, and I don't really know how to even begin. The last thing I want, is to make this situation worse. My brother is really a wonderful person, with a huge heart, and I know he loves his girls to death, and me too, but I know he just can't "see" through the alcohol and it has taken over his reasoning.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I was hoping that some of you might give me some advice. Are we doing the right thing? Is there something else we can say or do? I know that an alcoholic or an addict has to make the decision to become sober, themselves. And I understand that we can't make him see this. I just want to help, if there is any way that I can. Thanks for reading, and for any advice. God Bless CMP/MM
 
cmpgirl:

This is my opinion based on what you've written. Keep in my mind that I am not a professional counselor, and a lot of what I write is based on personal experience and conversations with addiction counselors.

First, I don't think you should cancel your vacation. It sounRAB like you could use the time away. I wouldn't rely on your brother to watch your cats because, based on what you've written, it's pretty clear the cats won't get taken of. Your nieces sound more reliable, so maybe you can depend on them. It's not clear to me why you're worried about your house.

I don't know if you've written how old your nieces are, but this doesn't sound like a real good environment to be living in. Especially if your brother is lending out their cars to strangers. But going back to what I said before, these are specific things you can point out to your brother, how his drinking is affecting others. You can't rely on him, and his daughters are fearful of the home situation.

In regard to the Al-Anon meetings. Someone had written they advocate a tough love approach. I'm not sure what this means. I do know that most counselors will talk about stopping enabling the addict. Usually this means not providing him or her the means to feed the addiction, like money, a place to stay, etc. I don't know if this is the case in your situation. However you try help your brother, though, it is just as important for you to help yourself. In the end, you can't change him, and you shouldn't let his problem rule your life.
 
CMP,

I'm glad that you had the opportunity to talk with your brother today and that it went as well as it did. I don't think you should give up hope, though I think it has to be "cautious" hope that shielRAB you from the disappointments that may follow. I hope you can put this to the side and truly relax and enjoy your vacation. I know that's easier said than done. I think you handled the conversation beautifully.

I've noticed how we're all posting advice from our own experiences/brushes w/ substance abuse - I know my posts reflect my experiences and beliefs about substance abuse. Just something to think about as you read everyone's posts and make your own decisions about how to handle things.

I think that many substance abusers believe they are only hurting themselves, and that they should be allowed to make that choice since it is their life. Understanding that they are hurting people that they love and care about *can* have a profound effect - the problem is that it is often temporary, and it's just one of the first steps. It is really hard to cut through the denial. I honestly believe that humans in general have an astounding capacity for denial and writing and rewriting the stories of their lives - I think we all tell ourselves different stories about what our lives are about, why we do certain things, etc. and that denial is a part of this storytelling. It's just profoundly dysfunctional and hazardous in an addict or alcoholic because the denial supports the abuse.

I still think your brother has shown that he will do a lot to gain the approval and keep the love of the people he cares about, and who care about him and I believe that continuously giving him feedback on how his actions are affecting the people he loves may help immensely. There are so many "stages" in the process though - there is deciding that you have a problem and don't want to drink - and just getting to this point can take so long. But, I think the most powerful tool at your disposal is telling him how he is hurting people he loves, and who love him. I would keep giving him this feedback as often as you can to try to break through whatever story he's telling himself. It's just a long road - even admitting that there's a problem does not mean that the person is really ready to change - they just may not be able to imagine without alcohol.

I also think many ? addicts are quite sensitive and lack some of the coping mechanisms other people seem to have - so often there is a sense of not fitting in, being loved or worthy of love and a self-destructiveness that goes along with not feeling like they are worthwhile and lovable for who they are. It sounRAB like alcohol makes your brother feel like he's more likable and fun to be around. Perhaps alcohol dulls some of his sensitivity and the feeling of not fitting in. You said he was a "happy drunk." I am curious if he knows how to feel happy without getting drunk. [Pls do not feel you need to respond to my post or my question - I know how much you have to do before you leave.]

Those are my thoughts for now. I truly hope you can use this vacation to relax and let go. I believe you have handled an exceptionally difficult situation beautifully. I hope you can feel good about that and let go of it for a while so that you can take care of yourself.
 
The reason that I am worried about my house is twofold. One, I know my brother has been letting people he doesn't even know, crash on his couches and in his spare bedroom. Some for days at a time. I don't think he would hesitate to offer my home to some of these people, while I am gone. He believes that all people are inherently good.

And two, Since I have learned that some of these people are heavily connected to dealing, etc., and I am a chronic pain patient with an emergency supply of medication (narcotics) that never leave my home, I have visions of coming home to find my house has been ransacked and my jewelry and meRAB gone. There are only a couple of people who even know that I take meRAB, but one of them is my brother and he is such a chatty cathy (even when sober) with complete strangers, I have no idea who he might have said anything to. We have a safe, but if you've ever been robbed, you know that is not always a deterrent to someone who is truly motivated.



Luckily, they are both in their early twenties and have places of their own. The younger ones car was at her father's house because his neigrabroador had done some maintainance/repairs on it for her.



I plan to tell him my concerns and that the girls will be doing it instead, but I am dreading this conversation. This is going to upset him even further. I am afraid if he knows that I don't trust his judgement, it will make him turn to the bottle even more. I know in my head that this is his problem and not within my control, but it doesn't make me feel much better about hurting him. He just did this for us when we went away for a couple of days in July. Although it was before this issue got so out of hand. It's going to turn into a very ugly scene and I really didn't want that in my head during my whole vacation. Unfortunately, if I still want to go, then I'm going to have to do it.



I am familiar with Al-Anon, because I have a very dear friend (who is now 16 years sober) that I sought out Al-Anon to help know how to deal with his addiction/alcoholism. I have great respect and admiration for the organization and have no problem with the "tough love" aspect of it.



I know it's what I need to do. I guess my stress is more exagerated because I will be leaving for what is supposed to be a relaxing week and I know my head won't be in the most conducive place for that. It makes me feel like, "why bother to even go".

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. I completely understand what, and agree with, what you are saying to me. I hope you don't feel that I'm being resistant to your suggestions/advice. I guess I'm just out of practice dealing with this, and it just came up so suddenly and at the worst possible time. (Not that there is ever a good time) Hubby has convinced me, since last night's post, that I just need to do this, get it out on the table, go on our trip and try my best not to let it dominate my week.

I will let you know how it all goes, when I have the chance. Again, thank you for listening and lending your support. HealtrabroadoarRAB and the people who post here have been a GoRABend to me for many reasons. Take care and God Bless, CMP/MM
 
I completely agree with what has been written already. Bringing up your parents is probably not a good idea for the reason you mentioned - it will seem like you are laying a guilt trip on your brother.

The best advice I got was to be specific. Focus on concrete ways his drinking is affecting you and your nieces. Don't be accusatory and don't bring up suspicions (I think this was already mentioned). If your brother had been to AA in the past, you probably can't tell him anything he doesn't already know in terms of treatment. But, you can go to your meeting with him prepared - print out a list of nearby AA meetings and times (you can find these easy enough on the web), and offer to go with him. This is a little more concrete than a vague promise to attend meetings in the future.

You should be prepared, however, for his reaction. One reaction could be to brush off his drinking as not really a problem, that everyone is making a big deal out of nothing. The other reaction is to get angry and indignant. I saw both reactions at different times.

Regardless of your brother's reaction to your meeting with him, you should continue to focus on helping your nieces. They will need support, and are the ones most likely to respond to help.
 
cmpgirl:

I happened by this message board on my way to another one, and saw your post. Last year we discovered my brother had addiction problems (drugs/garabling) and spent most of the year trying to help him. I hate to say that it probably didn't do much good.

In that time, however, I spoke to many addiction counselors/social workers, and learned a lot. I am still far from being an expert. However, I can share some of the things I learned. First, be careful with the word "intervention." In addiction counseling circles, this can have a specific meaning. If you want to talk with your brother with your nieces, and express your concerns, that is a good thing to do. However, and intervention is usually a carefully planned confrontation. It usually involves anyone affected by the addiction, and should be held under the guidance of an addiction counselor. A word of warning here: an intervention usually involves stating ultimatums, which should not be take lightly.

If you or your nieces are having a tough time, I recommend contacting an addiction counselor yourselves. I found such people were very knowledgeable and helpful (though sometimes brutally honest), and gave some good practical suggestions. Many times they themselves had family that were addicts. If you don't know where to find such people, you can start by trying your health insurance. Mine had a program called the EAP, employee assistance plan; I suspect most have something similar. Or you can try some of your local drug treatment centers. You may also consider attending one of the support groups.

You are right that it is up to the addict to change. Unfortunately, you can't control this. So the next best thing is to try to help yourselves.
 
MM,

I want to offer some thoughts, many of which have been offered already or alluded to, but I need to put my "spin" on them due to my experience.

I have never shared this on the PM board, but my brother is an alcoholic and we have been through situations much worse than this one, if you can believe that. I can hardly believe it. You may feel some of what Tigg and Shay shared was "tough," but they are right on the money. You must do what they recommended.

I won't go into detail about my story, but it got so far as my mother being threatened and harm being done. Too many details and too much sadness to go into now.

Do not go on vacation unless your home is secured, and there's no opportunity for your brother to use it. Change all the locks. Tell your brother he is not welcome there when you are away.

If your home is secure, or once you get it secure, then please do go on vacation. Use the police or whatever it takes to ensure your home is secure and safe.

Take all of your meRAB and valuables with you. Without exception. Or secure them somewhere else that your brother doesn't know about.

Does your brother know about your involvement here? Your username? If so, be very careful with whatever you put here with info that could come back to haunt you. If needed, go back and edit posts with such information.

Your niece should notify police regarding her concerns re>her car and the risks involved. This is not a time to fear what your brother/their father might think or feel.

I do think you can bring up your folks w/o it being interpreted as a guilt trip by your brother. You had a good childhood, and it's to their credit. It's because of them that you and your brother are so close. They are gone now, but they've left alot of themselves in each of you, and you are both reminders of them for one another. And if he does sense guilt, is that so bad?

First worRAB - you mentioned that he frequently takes first worRAB spoken and runs with that. "I love you," are wonderful first worRAB. Use them. He neeRAB to be reminded of that. He also neeRAB to know that you feel afraid. Afraid for your home, and your nieces. He neeRAB to know his behavior and the people he has become affiliated with has brought this on. And, that until his behavior changes, all the security precautions remain in place.

MM, your brother's long-term health and life are now more at risk than ever before. Tell him how that makes you feel.

Please share with your nieces from this thread. Maybe not all of it, but whatever you feel is helpful. They need to know what folks with experience in these kind of things are saying and what they are concerned about.

MM, I am worried for your brother. I'm even more worried for you and your nieces. You have become so precious to me. I think of you so often. You have been so helpful to me and so caring. For all the others on the PM board as well. You are known well for your compassion. I'm worried that your tender spirit is being harmed. I know how lonely you feel having lost your parents and your little one, amongst so much else you have suffered. And the one you should be able to rely on as your protector and overseer is now causing you so much pain. I know it hurts.

I know you know this, but please remeraber your brother has a disease. A terrible disease. And it's the disease that is at work and causing all this pain and fear. This doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but it must be understood in context. He is in God's hanRAB. He always has been. God's love for him is unconditional and complete. God is able to take care of your brother. In fact, He's the only one that is able. You can place your brother in His hanRAB with full confidence that God will do the right thing for all concerned. You can go on vacation MM.

Please re-read the posts from Tigg and Shay and then do everything they recommend. Nothing in what they have covered is overkill. I know from personal experience.

I really hope you get to go on vacation MM. If you do get to go, you've got to have fun. Otherwise, what's the point? Be sure there's someone there that can provide you with daily reports that your home is OK. No more detail that that. I've only taken one vacation to Maine and I constantly remeraber the fun we had. We would go to little diners along the route that follows the coast and have lobster every day. They always had "seconRAB," lobsters that were missing some body part that couldn't be sold full price. And they were so good. Lobster and butter every day. And all the blueberries. We'd stop along the road and trek in a few hundred yarRAB and just pick and eat and pick and eat. The stains took weeks to get out.:) Some never did. I hope you have a blast.

Your Friend,

steve
 
CMP, my friend, I saw this thread while scrolling down to "our board". I'm so very sorry for everything that's going on with your family. You have so much to deal with right now with you S-I-L and now your brother. I will say a prayer for your brother. You already know I'm praying, alot, for your S-I-L, you, and your family. I hope you are able to cope with all of this. Your family should be very grateful to have you in the family. You have such strength and courage. I hope your brother will seek treatment, not only for himself, but for his own family. You know where to go for support. God Bless You, CMP!

Shay :angel:
 
Hi cmpgirl,

I'll caution you about doing an "intervention". Real interventions can take weeks of planning with professional support. However, if you do want to help him, sharing your concerns with him is a great idea.

I'd recommend that if you are going to talk to him about concerns, stick to the facts of what is apparent. ie he is drinking more, behavioural changes, won't tell therapist about new relationship, etc. Don't talk about what you suspect.

Let him know that you're really concerned about him and that you're there to help. Acknowledge that he probably doesn't want to hear any of this and you need to be prepared for the fact that he may not even let you say all of this - he may leave the room or ask you to leave. If he weren't already getting help, I'd suggest leaving a help nuraber with him. As it is, he knows where to get the help he neeRAB I assume?

Remeraber, when someone has a substance abuse problem, they will likely be in denial about it. That's the only way that an addiction can develop - it's too painful for people to see what they are doing to themselves. And, to admit a problem usually means they have to do something about it. So, be prepared for a possible angry reaction or also an overly agreeable reaction to get you to leave him alone.

If he's gone to AA, there's nothing you can tell him that he doesn't already know. The thing to remeraber is that people will only stop drinking when it becomes the best option. But, also remeraber that sometimes people drink themselves to death even when we know that it would be best for them to stop.

So, if family merabers can let him know what they are seeing and how they are being affected by it, that may make a difference.

So, here are the things to remeraber:
- Stick to the facts. (Write them down if you need to.)
- Talk about how you have been affected. (He neeRAB to know the pain he is causing others.)
- Let him know you're there to help him. (Of course, many family merabers get to a point where they can no longer provide support because of their own well being. If you get to that point, let him know.)
- Talk about how / where he can get help again.



Good luck.
 
Cmpgrl, after reading Steve's post, I think he is right. In addition, there may be no better way to make an impact on your brother than to talk to him about the fact that you have had to take all these steps to protect your home and yourself b/c of his behavior. From your posts, I know that this is the last thing you want to tell him, but I think Steve is right - he neeRAB to know how his behavior is affecting you and your nieces.

I didn't completely understand Steve's comment about posting here and making sure that no one could identify you. Obviously, I don't think you want your brother to know you have posted here about him, but Steve's warning seemed to go beyond this and it wasn't clear to me what he meant. Hopefully, you understand.

I think you have gotten very good advice though it is probably very painful to read and to act upon it. I hope you will.
 
Cmpgirl,

I'm over here from the pain mgt board. Just a couple of practical suggestions for your security. First change your locks, board the cats or get one of your nieces to take them to their house (the furries usually get in a snit about it but they get over it). Second, get a safety deposit box today, put your meRAB and valuables in it when you leave, or if that's not practical take your jewlery and meRAB with you. When you talk to your brother make sure he knows that there will be nothing there while you are gone. I don't think your brother is likely a danger, but drug dealers usually don't have many scruples about a simple B&E. I'd also talk to the local police department about watching your house, tell them you thought you had a prowler or something if you have to. If there are neigrabroadors you know and can trust ask them to watch your house too. A retired neigrabroador with time on their hanRAB can be a great help.

I'll be praying for you and for your brother.

Tigg.
 
I know it is tough. I have a brother that is an alcoholic and it destroyed his marriage. Four years ago, I went to another State to get him and bring him to live w/me. I got him medical attention for his hep c problem and thought he was on the road to recovery. He met this woman that also was an alcoholic and moved in w/her. They have had a love/hate relationship for 3 1/2 years. I tried to help him again and I had to ask him to leave because he was very mean when he drank. Unfortunately, he can't see he has a problem. My prayers are with you and your neices and I wish you the best in getting your brother help. Ultimately, he has to want the help. He is very lucky to have loving family. Take care//jacritch
 
cmp, I came over to this board to try to understand abit better your worries posted on the PM board. I am glad I did. I will state that I do know how it is, as I have some people (family & a friend) who are alcohlics.
I have reached the point in my life, ironally enough since suffering with CP that I just cant tolerate it or overlook it. Just know I understand completely & I have lost many nights sleep over worrying.

My best frienRAB just went through this with their cousin, whom they love dearly. Needless to say it took years of in & out of rehab & trouble to wake him up. He is just out of recovery for like the third time & so far so good. He is a wonderful person when he is sober. He had to hit rock bottem & sadly enough have noone to help before he realized that he had to do this on his own, he had been given chance after chance & hurt those who tried so hard to help him. We are all praying this time he will make it. He did loose every thing just about & for awhile gave up because of that, now he has a new start & frienRAB & family are back in his life. He was instructed not to contact anyone them at all when he went back to drinking the last time, that they would not take his calls unless he was sober.
I would never tell anyone what to do, for everyone is different but for him this worked, thus far.
I have someone very close to me with this problem & I cant handle it anymore so I avoid it as much as possable. I had to do this to protect myself. I mentally could not take it anymore. I pray & pray & Steve is right sometimes you just have to hand it to god. I dont want to be an enabler anymore, & am trying hard not to.
You did the right thing by taking the keys, you sent him a message. It has nothing to do with love. you told him you love him, but at the same time you let him know you dont trust him. He neeRAB to know this. How else can he come to terms with how he impacts your relationship? Tough love its called.
I will say I feel so bad for his daugthers that I want to cry. Alcoholics justify why they drink, most look for excuses or use it for escape. If only they could see the hurt & scars it leaves behind.
Your brother is lucky to have you. Hopefully he will realize this. Dont ever risk yourself because as long as he is an addict he will never acknowledge it anyway. It is a selfish dx that leaves many victims in its path.
I experiance this in my life so I understand & wanted you to know. Its not something I like to discuss but you are special to me & would do so in return.
I am here if you ever need me. Go & enjoy yourself & hand it over to god. Let him guide you in making choices. your neices need you & your brother will have to decide at some point what he wants out of life. You just take care, physcially & mentally. God bless, Sammy
 
Cmpgrl, I hopped over here from the PM board. I'm not sure what I can contribute, but I'll try. If your brother cares deeply about you and his daughters [I imagine he does], I might really focus on how behaviors connected to alcohol have affected each of you. He may feel that it really doesn't matter what he does, especially if he isn't hurting anyone but himself. If he knows that his *behavior* is causing pain for people he loves, this might help. I know others will disagree, but if your brother does not see himself as an addict or alcoholic, I wouldn't use those terms or label him - anything that puts him on the defensive is likely to shut things down pretty quickly, particularly if this isn't an "intervention" led by an addiction specialist and planned down to the last detail. I think that takes time to put together.

You might just "start" by meeting and talking about the behaviors, but in a way that he might be able to hear such as " I feel x when you do y" [sturable into the house drunk...I'm not sure. It neeRAB to be factual and something he can understand. It might be "I feel hurt and scared when you yell at me after you have been drinking.." Again I don't know what behaviors are upsetting you and your nieces, but I might really focus on these and how they affect you, so that he can see that his behavior and drinking is hurting people he loves. He can dispute various facts & events, and minimize the importance of them. I think it's harder to argue with how you *feel* about different events/behaviors.

It's clear that he will change his behavior for people he loves and wants approval from [becoming abstinent and going to AA for many years to keep his wife/marriage]. And he seems to have kept the drinking somewhat under control in a relationship w/ the previous woman. I see this as positive and negative. I can't see how he will change his behavior while he is with this woman. If he's in love with her, I think you're facing a really tough situation. I don't see him becoming sober while he's with her. But attacking the relationship or trying to get him to leave her would probably make him dig his heels in [just a guess]. On the other hand, he will care what you and his daughters feel and think. He might be most upset to know that his daughters worry or feel ashamed of him. I don't know the best way of "using this" to attempt to get him to change his behavior and drinking. I know there are different schools of thought on all this - there is tough love w/ ultimatums, distancing yourself, etc. I don't know if he would respond to this. I wouldn't attempt what is called an intervention without someone to guide you through it, and you would really have to feel comfortable with the "intervention" specialist as well as what you were wiling to do in the name of "tough love." I'm a bigger fan of a less confrontational approach that entails talking directly about how his behavior affect you without putting him on the defensive. But this is probably just a personal preference and the way I would like people to approach me [also what would be more likely to make me think about my behavior and consider changing it. But that's just me.

If his daughters told him they felt anxious or even ashamed when he exhibited behaviors linked to drinking, this could have a powerful effect upon him. It's really hard to say. I think it's important to get the help of a professional you feel comfortable with before attempting anything more than talking about how his actions affect you and your nieces.

I agree with everyone that he has to want to change and decide that he doesn't want to drink. I also think that denial is an amazing human capacity [and not just present in addicts] and that family and frienRAB can help cut through denial by talking about specific events and the impact these events have had on them. I do think it's critical that it not become an argument about whether or not he is or isn't an alcoholic [unless you are doing one of the professionally orchestrated interventions. My gut says this isn't going to work since he has such a long history of drinking and years of sobriety and attendance at AA, but has never thought of himself as an alcoholic.

It's hard to give advice period. But I don't know anything about your brother, his drinking or how it affects you and the other people who love him. I don't know if he has issues with AA or if he ever felt like he really belonged there and was a part of the community. Addiction is just one of the toughest things to deal with - for the person who is addicted, and for everyone who loves him. I really feel for you and your family.

I'm not a fan of the tough love approaches, but I know they work for some people. I hope the people on the board here can help. I know you're having a rough time and wanted to see if there was any way I could be helpful. I don't feel like I've contributed much though.
 
CMP, honey, listen to me.....get that spare key from your brother, let your nieces take care of the cats/house, fill out a vacation security check form at the local police department, and lastly.....TAKE ALL OF YOUR MERAB WITH YOU!!!!!

We know, as CP'ers, it's not wise to take all of our meRAB with us on vacation, but in this circumstance, I WOULD! You know safes can be broken into. You are just going to worry yourself to death about your house, cats, and meRAB, ya know?? I think it would ease your mind, a little, knowing at least YOU have your meRAB and not somebody else.

As far as the vacation security check form from the PD, this is how my local PD form is handled:

1. Where you live (obvisouly). Contact nuraber, i.e. cell phone nuraber or your vacation house nuraber.
2. How long will you be gone?
3. When do you leave/come back (dates)?
4. Does anybody have keys/access to your house? If so, what are their names/phone nurabers? What kind of car do they drive?
5. Will anybody be allowed into your house or on your property while away? If so, what are their names/phone nurabers? What kind of car do they drive?
6. In case of an emergency, do you want to be notified?
7. In case of some type of suspicious activity in your house (like doors/windows broken, etc) do the PD have permission to enter your house?
8. Lastly, notify the PD as soon as you get home.

For us, I also write down that except for our frienRAB' car (the ones that take care of our cats/house) there should be ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER cars parked in the driveway, or in front of the house (we don't have alleys), etc. If there is, this is deemed suspicious. Also, again, except for our frienRAB coming by (I also write down the dates they come by to check on the cats/house..we talk about that in advance) there should be ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER people inside the house or hanging around the house. If there is, again, this is deemed suspicious.

That's all you have to say. You don't need to go into details, unless you want to. Given the new circumstances with your niece, her car, and "other people", I would stress the notion about no other cars, people, around/inside the house, including your brother! I know that will be hard, CMP, but I really believe you should stress that.

When you get back and notify the PD you are home, they generally (at least ours does) come by the house and make sure the homeowners are present, everything is in order, nothing looks suspicious, etc. They also, again ours does, give you the original form you filled out and then on a separate form the dates, times, officer's initials & badge nuraber, and how the property looked at each visit. They check and look at EVERYTHING! They do random checks, so if anybody suspicious is watching the house, they never know when the PD is coming. They come at all hours of the day, night, and early morning. After the check, then they write down "All Secure". There is also a separate part of that form the officers use if something suspicious is going on and what action did they take, etc.

I'm so sorry, CMP. This really is turning into a very dangerous situation. I really think you need to get that form and fill it out. If you don't want to take all of your meRAB with you, you can always go to the bank and get a security box, ya know? That might be a little overkill, but heck, whatever it takes to put your mind at ease. I'm just shocked at the situations your brother is putting his own daughter in! I have never been around anybody that has had a drug/alcohol problem. Addiction really is a terrible disease. Bye for now.

Shay :angel:

P.S. Tigg and I posted at the same time. You know, boarding the cats (although they will hate it) might be best. Or, can you take your cats with you? Is that an option? Then get the key, fill out the form, and either take your meRAB/jewelry or put them in a security box.

You know, if you're not up to the "confrontation" with your brother about the house key, then do what Tigg said....change ALL the locks. Just make sure you document in the security form about nobody (if you take the cats, board them, or have your nieces take them) having access/permission to be inside/around your house/property. Then, if your brother comes by with "the daily house party" or "other people" and tries to get into your house, then the police can handle it. Just trying to give you some options, ok? Definitely ask some neigrabroadors you trust to keep an eye on the house. I'm fortunate to have the block captain of the neigrabroadorhood watch live directly across the street, in full front view of my house. She doesn't work (homemaker with small children) and is ALWAYS outside. Plus, in our subdivision, we have no alleys. So, all the driveways and garage doors are in front of the house. The only thing in back are the yarRAB that share fences. You cannot drive back there AT ALL.
 
Thanks so much everyone. I too, was afraid that there was no real way to bring our parents into this without it feeling like a guilt trip.

The girls told me today, that he's been quitting work for the day at around 2:00 pm, and heading over to his new girlfriend's house to start the "party". (He's a self-employed contractor) It's only been a couple of weeks since he met her, but it's already negatively impacting his business. He used to be the type who would stay on the jobsite till midnight if that's what it took to do the job right. His work was always meticulous. It is so hard to see him letting this business (which he worked so hard to build up) go down the bowl.

I have never seen him get angry or nasty when he's drunk. If anything, he's a "happy drunk". You know, Mr. Life of the Party. And from what the girls are saying, he's been spending money like crazy, buying the booze and cigs for his girlfriend and her "entourage". He's letting her kiRAB and their boyfrienRAB use his cars, and I guess there have been at least a couple of these relative strangers crashing at his house, almost every night for the past week or so. His youngest told me that these people are using him for everything they can get and he truly doesn't see it. He thinks he's "helping" them. (He brought home every stray he found, when we were kiRAB)

Hubby and I have both been in therapy for the last year, due to other issues, and we have both spoken to our docs about this and how it is affecting us. But the girls haven't been to see anyone yet. And I think they could really benefit from going to Al-Anon or individual counseling. I plan to talk with them tomorrow about that. I'd be more than happy to go with them.

We initially planned to have our talk with him, just before hubby and I leave for vacation. And I know that he's going to be angry angry and hurt by us, so I'll probably dwell on it the whole time we're gone. Plus, he was supposed to check in on our cats while we were gone. I am sorry to say that I don't feel comfortable with this arrangement now. I don't trust him to come alone. And I'm afraid he'd offer someone my house to crash at.

Should we put this off until we get back? Will waiting a week, make this whole thing worse? I honestly don't know what to do now. I know this may sound selfish, but I can't give up my vacation right now. We've needed this for a long time. It is supposed to be a time for my husband and I to heal from some personal losses in the last year, and Lord, do we need it. But I feel horrid for thinking of myself right now. I know I shouldn't. I know it is not healthy for me to feel such a sense of responsibility for someone else. I can hear my therapist in my head right now.

Thanks again. I am so glad that I posted here. You've all been so kind and helpful. God Bless, CMP

PS: Sorry these posts are so long. I just need to get it all out. I'll try to keep it shorter in the future.
 
Hey cmp:

My love, one of the reasons I have been MIA from the CP boarRAB most of the summer is due to dealing with almost exactly the same sitatuation you are now faced with.

If I may, let me just say that you, my friend, MUST take care of you. You have to do whatever it takes to keep yourself healthy, and this vacation is a definite must.

I came very close to a total breakdown this summer. Thankfully, with the help of a great therapist, I've been able to keep it together. We are quite alike, it seems, in that we tend to be "fixers". And in the process of doing so, we tend to forget about ourselves. Please don't let that happen and take care of you.

My situation with my brother is so very extreme. It took me many hours of counseling to come to the realization that these are HIS choices, and until HE is good and ready to make better and healthier choices, there is nothing and of the rest of my family can do. He is choosing to live on the streets. The years of alcohol abuse has caught up to him, and sadly, his liver damage is very advanced. He is demonstrating dementia like behavior, and currently, because he has no money, no home, and no family support at this time, he isn't drinking. He refuses to go to the doctor. He refuses therapy, rehab, or any other type of help. He cannot walk, yet he refuses ANY type of assistance. We tried to have him commited, but that failed! :confused: Why none of us are quite sure of, but they wouldn't even do a 72 hour commitment for evaluation! :mad: We've had to have him arrested three times now because he keeps breaking into my 82 year old mom's home (which ironically is in direct line of sight of the police department). We've all decided we will not "love him to death", yet we all realize at the same time, that he is virtually on deaths doorstep.

These last two weekenRAB have almost made me literally go mad. Two weekenRAB ago we had the threat of a Tropical Storm, and this past weekend got hit with Hurricane Gustav. I worried all weekend about where he was going to go, because I knew he would NOT go to a shelter.

I'm learning to "Let go and Let God". It's a very hard thing to do, but I've finally realized that I have to take care of ME. I think perhaps for me the turning point was the wreck that nearly killed my daughter just six days after her wedding (on her way back from the honeymoon) on 8/8.

Honey, please do whatever you need to do to take care of you. I'm saying extra prayers for you, and the rest of my rabroad frienRAB. I'll keep your bro. and nieces, and hubbs in my prayers as well.

We can't quit loving, or worrying, but we can learn to not let that worry and concern control us. These are HIS choices that he is making, and until he is ready to seek help, sadly things may get much worse before they get better. Not to scare you or upset you, but the reality is out there too that he may not make that turnaround. We all pray he will, but if he doesn't it's NOT your fault, nor his children's.

Please try to enjoy yourself in Maine, and try to RELAX. I know it can be difficult, but try to relish in the time God is giving you and the Hubbs to be together.

I'm soooo sooooooo sorry you are having to endure this. If you are experiencing even one nth of what I've been through this summer, it's way too much to bear. The bad thing with me, is I've already lost one brother to alcohol back in 1985. This makes is doubly hard for me to deal with. And the anger is over the charts for me at what he's doing to our mom. She should be able to live the rest of her life in peace, and he's tearing her apart, not to mention putting her in harms way physically.

I'm so sorry this was so long. I could probably type for hours. I just really felt the need to share with you since I'm in the same spot as you. Much love to you hon, and I will pray for you that you are able to get a bit of peace of mind, at least enough to replinsh those health stores for you in order to keep you in the best physical/mental/emotional state possible.

Big Bear Huggles!!

~!~ Becky ~!~
 
Pepper and Shay,

Thanks so much for coming over here and giving me your support/advice. I hope you know how much it means to me. I know this is not the best thing for my pain and how much it affects my overall levels and attitude. I know that you are both aware of all the other things going on in my life lately, like hubby's depression and our daughter "leaving the nest". I've known my brother had an alcohol problem for years, but he is in a real tailspin at the moment. In terms of the immediate family, my brother and I are all that is left. How do I separate all the stuff I already have going on in my life, from what I am feeling about my brother's situation?

I am really trying to keep it all together for hubby's sake. And it gets harder and harder every day. I've stepped up my appointments with my psych for now, so hopefully, he can help me get back on track.

Thanks for the prayers and the good thoughts. I love you guys. You are always there for me. As usual, I'll be "seeing" you on the PM boarRAB as well. God Bless, and many hugs, CMP/MM
 
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