Blog Talkback: Toons of the 2000s: Anime We Hope Never Come to America

However, top ten on rightstuf also isn't a decent indicator of market penetration. Getting sales on a otakucentric site is a minimum. If it been gotten on the billboard video sales charts in a significant position, that would be a real success. Also, for every Eiken, you have 9 flops, and well, you can't support 9 flops with one Eiken. You can't even do that with one Evangelion (ADV.)



Yeah, truly fluid/consistent animation is not in play in the shows listed (Haruhi they are not,) they couldn't seem to stick their character sheets, and wackyness hinges on the show sticking the humor, which requires good direction, which was also absent. Thus, even a fanservice show can be held to some pretty standard quality measurements. It's little things that make that world of difference between Tenchi or Ranma or Onegai Teacher vs. Daphne in the Brilliant Blue or Onegai Twins or the harems on our listed series. It isn't just the hi-jinks or the bounce, it's how and what you surround them with.

I mean, let's take Midori Days, which on concept sounds like a prime suspect for a worst of list. However, it sticks all the technical hallmarks, and it does so by giving the humor and drama (which defines and sells your characters) the same attention as the fanservice (which means the direction had to be good.) Good direction often comes with good animation and storyboarding (as it does in Midori,) but even in the absence of good animation, you can cheat if the direction is good (Evangelion is the ultimate example of this, but even shows like Niea_7 and Legend of Black Heaven brilliantly underscore that principal - direction covers more failures than fanservice ever can.)



Yeah, but the shows on our list are often lauded by their supporters for delivering story in addition to the titillation (even Kiss X Sis, which is no doubt more more vapid than KnJ) but I would contend otherwise because the titillation (which there fans would contend is secondary or at most par) gets in the way, and then does damage not only to the story, characterization and direction, but also to the technical aspects by creating inconsistent quality through out, jarring viewers out of there suspension of disbelief with suddenly stiff or off-model animation or clumsy pacing or storyboarding. To buy in at the point where the story/animation is being mucked up with service, then you have to be enjoying the fanservice alone, and that kind of fanservice hasn't sold in the US, making them a very poor pick up for a US company.

I mean, if you want to do a fun fanservice show, it's gotta be fun, not a chore. You want to make an emotional/dramatic fanservice show, you have to feel for the characters. You want to do both in a service, you've got to be brilliant because you're juggling a range of emotions, and if you don't, you're gonna drop the ball, and that's exactly what happens to the shows on our list. The service out runs the directors ability to stick the other elements they are attempting to interject, undermining their overall intent.

In short, they are exactly like a martial arts film made with bad actors who can't fight, and a director who can't even capture/compensate for the pulled punches.

I guess on that basis, I concede that Queen's Blade wouldn't make it if it'd been unlicensed. It's a porn show, and it pretends to be nothing else but a porn show, and a nicely rendered one at that, so yes, it's a success. It's still a questionable pick up because unless it was dirt cheap it won't pay for itself as it's audience is too narrow (and too prone in the US for skipping out on DVDs and buying merch instead since they probably already watched it via various methods sans payment.) It's also still not something I'm ever going to recommend over something that uses it's sexuality as part of a more rounded, polished package that actually tells something of a story.

PS: 400+ downvotes. No one is ever going to touch that. Thanks internet :D
 
I think criticising us for choosing what are basically mindless fanservice shows are silly. Around here, most of us try to look at things from multiple angles (I can tell you there have been discussions amongst the News team if it's felt one of us isn't giving something a far crack with our commentary) and none of us are saying a show that contains fanservice and violence is automatically bad like a bunch of overprotective prudes. I feel what we did go after is the bottom barrel stuff, the shows targetted at questionable fetishes that are highly disposable and not created with any real lasting value. If some people feel persecuted by this then sorry, but not every work created has a redeeming value. I started watching Japanese animation because the examples I saw boasted strong story telling and compelling characters. I'm not going to support crap, especially not as it slowly cripples the industry like a cancerous tumour.
 
I'm making the comparison, because someone essentially said 'they should ban it because of the violence at the end'. I'm thus comparing it to something that was nothing but over the top violence to show why this is a silly reason to ban something. I'm not making any artistic comparison between the two.
 
I disagree completely, what exactly do you think is the problem with Speed Grapher, aside from not having the best animation, what was wrong with it? It is not like any of the series being discussed here, it was a good series with good characters and a good plot & action and everything.
 
Maybe it was too "seedy" for him. ;)

There are certainly some pacing issues in SG. And some of the more fantastical scenes seemed a little off-tone at times.

But if you're a fan of those old "Pinko Violence" Japanese films of the 70s, Speed Grapher comes closer to them than most anime I've seen, OAV or TV. I'd like to see anime mine some older Japanese sub/pop-culture more often. For example. I thought Black Lagoon was at its best in the 2nd season, riffing on old, dingy, B-type yakuza films with the Fujiyama Gangster storyline.
 
Speed Grapher was smut. But that was the point. It was about how low people would stoop in the name of pleasure. And it was awesome, albiet flawed. There was a definitive context to its depravity.

Context, not content, is always the hallmark of maturity as well as watchability.
 
There's nothing wrong with using sex and violence to tell a story, but in Speed Grapher these elements are used with virtually no sophistication whatsoever; they're simply tossed into the story, sometimes in very contrived ways and always in an exploitative manner. This show might be ?adult?, but it is most certainly not mature.
 
Uh, I never said I had a problem with Speed Grapher, I was just making a witty comparison to the statement.

Apparently, I only got the comparison part right. I haven't even finished Speed Grapher.
 
Exploitative of what exactly?, this is a cartoon. Also i don't agree, a big part of the show was how this was a society of decadence, it all fits.
 
I was about to respond "so?" but maybe my tastes are just too liberal...;)

Honestly, there's a lot of stuff out there that's exploitative. People use the term so liberally to label shows with any amount of gratuitous sexual content or violence, but fail to see that a lot of the "classy, mainstream, popular" shows out there are just gratuitous. For instance, isn't Dragon Ball Z basically male power-trip porn? Isn't Haruhi Suzumiya a show that wants to have its cake and eat it too with it's "self conscious" nature regarding otaku fandom while still completely enjoying the fact that Mikiru is just there to squeal in moe manner and send male moe fans' hearts aflutter?

Someone in here mentioned that Perfect Blue is exploitative but is saved by innovative direction and intelligence.

And I totally agree. Perfect Blue is no different than your typical Italian Giallo film but in that genre there are standout examples of intelligent, emergetic filmmaking and Perfect Blue would be considered a standout as well.

In the end, most shows and movies are exploitative and gratuitous in some way or another. Hollywood movies are some of the best examples. We get copious amounts of wedding porn, SFX porn, gross-out "comedy" porn, and audiences--FANS IN THIS FORUM--eat that stuff up. And they're all totally gratuitous in how they present these elements. But for some reason people have this conception that your typical shiny Hollywood movie is somehow classier and more acceptable to watch than some Grindhouse film.

The only difference I see is that Speed Grapher doesn't pretend to be classy when its not, unlike some anime out there.
 
It's already bad enough that Japanese law prohibits the depiction of full-frontal nudity, and not just in porn, but on legitimately artistic works as well.
 
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