Blog Talkback: In Defense of Problem Solverz
- Thread starter Kunmui
- Start date
Atheistfools
New member
Most of the posts here HAVE commented on the blog. :shrug:
rihannon n
New member
Wer'e just giving our opinions. They just happen to be negative. I'm sure that if we all loved it you would not complain.:shrug:
Super Band Fan
New member
I did give my opinions on his blog. Which is pretty much, I disagree with every single point made, and hope this show gets cancelled.
Matt Murdock
New member
Would you give it a rest.......i know there are cartoons that you dislike but bashing others just because they have a different opinion about it, some like it some hate it, that's how it works.
And yeah just because people don't add "The" on Problem Solverz you don't have to make such a big deal about it, get over it.
And yeah just because people don't add "The" on Problem Solverz you don't have to make such a big deal about it, get over it.
I don't give a damn what the point of the show is. All I know is that it's an assault on my eyes. If they're intentionally making it this awful, then shame on them. If you have the budget, why not make the effort to, I don't know, make a GOOD cartoon instead of purposely alienating people?
cresswell_janet
New member
I like stupidly weird stuff too, but come on. It makes my photophobia kick in high gear, and that ain't good.
The problem with chdr's theory that TPS was "intentionally so bad it's good" is that you can't make something "intentionally so bad it's good". People don't remember Plan 9 From Outer Space or Troll 2 because they were made to be bad, they're remembered and loved because someone tried to make serious movies and failed at them. Comedy is in a weird sort of area where everything else done badly (drama, horror, action) can be potentially funny, but when comedy is done badly, it's just painful and boring, much like this show.
You claim that you actually understand why alot of people don't like this show... and yet you and a couple others are practically screaming "haterz!" to anybody who dares to give their opinion that contradicts yours.
If that's not blatant flamebaiting, I don't know what is... mind you that I never really got into SBT myself, either.
I honestly don't see this as a Problem Solverz hating thread... all people are doing here is giving their honest opinions about it, and it just happens that the majority doesn't like it. They're at least giving reasons for it, and are actually being civil about it... which is alot better than what it could've been. That, and I've seen worse bashing on other shows... alot worse. It's better to give an explaination, big or small, than to type out only a few words or a single line bashing it to hell and back.
Personally, I can't say much due to barely watching it myself. I'll be honest here, the commercials are enough for me to not like it, and that rarely happens with me with any show. I think the animation is so gawd-awfull that I seriously can't describe it anymore than that. If you don't like my opinion and others' opinions about it, deal with it.
If that's not blatant flamebaiting, I don't know what is... mind you that I never really got into SBT myself, either.
I honestly don't see this as a Problem Solverz hating thread... all people are doing here is giving their honest opinions about it, and it just happens that the majority doesn't like it. They're at least giving reasons for it, and are actually being civil about it... which is alot better than what it could've been. That, and I've seen worse bashing on other shows... alot worse. It's better to give an explaination, big or small, than to type out only a few words or a single line bashing it to hell and back.
Personally, I can't say much due to barely watching it myself. I'll be honest here, the commercials are enough for me to not like it, and that rarely happens with me with any show. I think the animation is so gawd-awfull that I seriously can't describe it anymore than that. If you don't like my opinion and others' opinions about it, deal with it.
mcgradycarter2000
New member
Dude don't jump down my throat about a tv show. All I said was that it was a thread where everyone was bashing a certain tv show, which is true. If I said everyone was blindly bashing it that would be one thing, but I didn't. I wasn't being uncivil, and I wasn't "screaming haterz!" -_-
I honestly don't care if other people like what I like, just as long as they don't insult the fans.
Just don't act like I'm personally attacking your opinions.
And no I wasn't "flamebaiting" either I was just stating my opinion about SBT.
I honestly don't care if other people like what I like, just as long as they don't insult the fans.
Just don't act like I'm personally attacking your opinions.
And no I wasn't "flamebaiting" either I was just stating my opinion about SBT.
You know, in some ways, I don't get the poor animation criticism when it comes to The Problem Solverz. The visuals are so dense, and often so active that while the palette is designed to be an assault, the actual design and movement is pretty animation intensive (though they are loops.) Stuff like the hyper-active amusement park aren't mistakes - everything is in the right wrong place, and that everything is vast in scale. The video game omages are also intensely very detail oriented as well, and again, suggest that nothing about what the show is in an accident.
I mean, that doesn't mean that the show isn't some ways like getting beat by a roll of quarters in a sock, but the details in the edges suggest that much like the adult swim shows that worked the post-modern and surrealist angle, this is a fine tuned, carefully honed attack by someone who has done nothing but train with a roll of quarters in a sock. If you hate it, that's part of the creator's intent - it's built to evoke emotion. If you love it because you see through the game and realize that to hit upon something so caustic, you have to actually be proactive in tuning that result, that's fine too.
While the Duchamp comparison in the blog is brilliant, I think the attention to detail suggests this is more the surrealism/cubism of animation. You can tell from Picasso's sketchbooks he could draw very realistically without much effort. However, he pushed his artwork into weird and visually antagonistic areas (especially for the time,) in part because that evoked greater emotion than a series that worked those details towards more traditional ends. This is essentially the same modus operendi, and frankly the fact that so many people are just choked by it is perfect.
I mean, that doesn't mean that the show isn't some ways like getting beat by a roll of quarters in a sock, but the details in the edges suggest that much like the adult swim shows that worked the post-modern and surrealist angle, this is a fine tuned, carefully honed attack by someone who has done nothing but train with a roll of quarters in a sock. If you hate it, that's part of the creator's intent - it's built to evoke emotion. If you love it because you see through the game and realize that to hit upon something so caustic, you have to actually be proactive in tuning that result, that's fine too.
While the Duchamp comparison in the blog is brilliant, I think the attention to detail suggests this is more the surrealism/cubism of animation. You can tell from Picasso's sketchbooks he could draw very realistically without much effort. However, he pushed his artwork into weird and visually antagonistic areas (especially for the time,) in part because that evoked greater emotion than a series that worked those details towards more traditional ends. This is essentially the same modus operendi, and frankly the fact that so many people are just choked by it is perfect.
xraptor777
New member
I'm glad someone was able to intelligently express my thoughts, because I was just gonna say the people who hate the visuals were totally missing the point. The blog entry said mostly the same thing, but I wish he'd spent less time talking about how they "trolled" the viewers. Because that just brings out the people who want to believe that there's no effort behind the show and hate it because they think it's taking the spot of something better they like.
Look, the fact is that shows like this, Tim & Eric, 12 oz Mouse, and Xavier aren't meant to look "bad" in a "Plan 9" sense. They're constructed to look a certain way that people with a limited vocabulary would call "trolling", but more astute viewers recognize as careful manipulation of viewer expectation meant to evoke particular feelings. Like Karl said, "everything is in the right wrong place". Shows like this aren't meant to be "seen" so much as "felt". I'm always thankful when networks give us something new and challenging like this, as opposed to yet another Ben 10 show or Ben 10 look-alike.
It's also absolutely understandable that most people can't stand it. Most people can't deal with anything very much different-looking, let alone something that intentionally goes against what you've been trained to feel. And please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying your dumb or unsophisticated if you don't like it, but I would say you're being too simple in calling the creators "trolls" or "hipsters" for taking this approach. If your eyes can't take it, fine, change the channel. But save your outrage for something that deserves it, like (the painfully simplistic-looking, annoyingly loud Dexter clone) Johnny Test. I'd say that's far more painful to watch.
Look, the fact is that shows like this, Tim & Eric, 12 oz Mouse, and Xavier aren't meant to look "bad" in a "Plan 9" sense. They're constructed to look a certain way that people with a limited vocabulary would call "trolling", but more astute viewers recognize as careful manipulation of viewer expectation meant to evoke particular feelings. Like Karl said, "everything is in the right wrong place". Shows like this aren't meant to be "seen" so much as "felt". I'm always thankful when networks give us something new and challenging like this, as opposed to yet another Ben 10 show or Ben 10 look-alike.
It's also absolutely understandable that most people can't stand it. Most people can't deal with anything very much different-looking, let alone something that intentionally goes against what you've been trained to feel. And please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying your dumb or unsophisticated if you don't like it, but I would say you're being too simple in calling the creators "trolls" or "hipsters" for taking this approach. If your eyes can't take it, fine, change the channel. But save your outrage for something that deserves it, like (the painfully simplistic-looking, annoyingly loud Dexter clone) Johnny Test. I'd say that's far more painful to watch.
Hi everybody, great discussion. I work on Problem Solverz and want to offer my two cents. Everyone's opinion here is completely valid; you're free to hate the show and you're definitely entitled to love it. That's all fine. I won't argue the subjective stuff but I would like to offer some facts with regard to the production of the show and what it is we're trying to do.
I will be the first to admit that the writing on the show hasn't been as strong as we'd like, at least for these first few episodes. We had issues with some of the scripts which we've since hopefully resolved; you can also chalk up some of the flat jokes and clunky situations to a show that's still trying to find its feet and identity (all while dealing with the aforementioned script situation).
As for all the hand-wringing with regards to the show's, um, unique aesthetic, I can say that we are definitely not trying to troll our audience. What we're trying to do is invent an idiosyncratic visual language that, instead of referencing "traditional" animation, bases itself almost entirely on weird stuff like the Muppets, Gumby, RGB computer art, Matt Groening, BMX bike racing, 80's teen movies, zines, Led Zeppelin, the sensory overload of our postmodern world, wyld style graffiti, etc. Oh, and treating Flash like a pure, artmaking tool unto itself, not as some substitute for older, timeworn animation methods. In other words, and like someone mentioned above, we're making a pure Flash show that isn't trying to look like it's hand drawn. We're also not afraid to draw influences (or rip off) selectively from the "high art" world when appropriate; we're probably more influenced by John McCracken than Craig McCracken.
Which is not to say we don't respect, or even love, any of the old school traditional animation stuff (Winsor McCay is one of my favorite artists of all time). We dig on any number of Fleischer, Hanna-Barbara, John K work, and even the merchandising tie-in cartoon trash of the 80's (Sunbow, anyone?).
With Problem Solverz, however, we're trying something radically different, visually. Sure there are some hiccups and missteps along the way, but we are definitely trying. I can speak for most of the crew when I say that we put tremendous amounts of work and craft into every shot, and into trying to make every joke work (despite the aforementioned script situation). We're making an attempt at softening the palette up a little bit (especially with backgrounds) so that foreground elements and characters aren't so easily lost. There's still a lot to learn, especially considering we're basically learning about this invented visual language as we go.
So give us a chance. We're not trolling you. We're trying to give you something different. And believe it or not, it comes from a heartfelt and sincere place.
I will be the first to admit that the writing on the show hasn't been as strong as we'd like, at least for these first few episodes. We had issues with some of the scripts which we've since hopefully resolved; you can also chalk up some of the flat jokes and clunky situations to a show that's still trying to find its feet and identity (all while dealing with the aforementioned script situation).
As for all the hand-wringing with regards to the show's, um, unique aesthetic, I can say that we are definitely not trying to troll our audience. What we're trying to do is invent an idiosyncratic visual language that, instead of referencing "traditional" animation, bases itself almost entirely on weird stuff like the Muppets, Gumby, RGB computer art, Matt Groening, BMX bike racing, 80's teen movies, zines, Led Zeppelin, the sensory overload of our postmodern world, wyld style graffiti, etc. Oh, and treating Flash like a pure, artmaking tool unto itself, not as some substitute for older, timeworn animation methods. In other words, and like someone mentioned above, we're making a pure Flash show that isn't trying to look like it's hand drawn. We're also not afraid to draw influences (or rip off) selectively from the "high art" world when appropriate; we're probably more influenced by John McCracken than Craig McCracken.
Which is not to say we don't respect, or even love, any of the old school traditional animation stuff (Winsor McCay is one of my favorite artists of all time). We dig on any number of Fleischer, Hanna-Barbara, John K work, and even the merchandising tie-in cartoon trash of the 80's (Sunbow, anyone?).
With Problem Solverz, however, we're trying something radically different, visually. Sure there are some hiccups and missteps along the way, but we are definitely trying. I can speak for most of the crew when I say that we put tremendous amounts of work and craft into every shot, and into trying to make every joke work (despite the aforementioned script situation). We're making an attempt at softening the palette up a little bit (especially with backgrounds) so that foreground elements and characters aren't so easily lost. There's still a lot to learn, especially considering we're basically learning about this invented visual language as we go.
So give us a chance. We're not trolling you. We're trying to give you something different. And believe it or not, it comes from a heartfelt and sincere place.