Anime and sexism/feminism

She could be a beautiful boy--there's not much separating her look from say, Ashitaka in Princess Mononoke. And whoever said that androgynous females can't be hot anyway? I'm a big fan of toraboys myself, and I have no insecurities about this saying anything about my sexuality.



Yeah, but Happosai's an ugly old man who should know better. If Akane did it maybe she's just a sexually curious young woman. She could steal my underwear anytime!

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Regardless, I still thought the show was funny!!



I thought the anime designs were hit and miss, the game designs however were unique, I still can't wait to see the OVA!!




WOAH!!
Now that you think about they are pretty scary to the average person
(frankly, I wasn't scared of them at all, but then again I'm not average)
 
There was just a collective groan across the whole forum. Ugh, when I defended fanservice shows, I was talking about stuff like DP, Godannar, etc. Shows where the girls shows skin but it was part of the fun along with the action and the plot. Not some disgusting poorly written piece of garbage like this...thing.
 
Kenji, I agree, I'm gonna have to take your side on everything, you prove a decent point

And honestly both Happosai and Akane are on my most hated manga/anime characters list
 
AGREED! That anime is.....somthing to say the least, but deffinantly nothing good, I don't care how attractive a girl is, graphically soiling your pants multiple times in an episode is just disgusting to the point of nausia & beyond ( I actually contemplated Stabbing my eyes out while watching an episode of this series, thank the lord it was the only episode i watched.)
 
I don't care about some sort of proportional representation for a gender or for any specific group. If a male author mostly writes men or it's the other way around, fine. Whatever. The core issue to me is characters being portrayed fairly, with good faith effort being made to avoid stereotypes and gratitutious exploitation of characters based on their gender.

I think the real test of top quality is writing something that has crossover appeal regardless of the identity of the protagonist(s) involved. When that happens, it's an indicator of greatness far more often than not.

Edit note: Although, that bit about actually having women that don't just talk about men is not a bad standard.
 
What I dislike about the term sexist is it is hardly ever used in any way except to argue that a female is getting portrayed in a negative point of view.

Someone used the example of the female agent from Death Note, what is worth noting is that it is not the writer who is being "sexist" there but the character. It's supposed to give the two of them depth.

The same is the case for nearly every other example, there's no such thing as a world without the conflict of sexism, and there should not be a work of fiction that is trying to portray believable characters that does not contain these very real ideas of society.
 
I like my heroines to be strong willed and spunky. Miyazaki is a great filmmaker, most of the protagonists are strong female characters, and they're not sexualized in any way.

Kallen does have too much fanservice to her, but she also has a bad ass attitude and one of the best fighters on the show.

I think it's funny that Haruhi uses the moe aspect to attract new merabers, cause moe and fanservice is unfortunately present in lots of anime today. (a little is okay, but DON'T over-do it. -_-)
 
I think the treatment of women is a big part of why I don't watch more anime. Certainly I know of several series, but it's the little I do know that keeps me way. I know it's partly cultural, but I'm sick of women being damsels in distress or sexualised lolis or dream girlfrienRAB who's only desire is to cook and clean for some guy. We really need more stronger female characters in these shows instead of just females designed by 'What will give fanboys a jolly?'. Fanservice is like sweets- the occassional taste is all in good fun, but it's a side dish. Make it your whole diet and your teeth will all fall out.
 
You obviously didn't look very close at the context of that example. My complaint was not that Raye Penbar was acting in a sexist manner toward his fiancee, but that she does absolutely nothing to correct him or argue the point at all. Everyone involved just proceeRAB as though the way he acted was perfectly right and proper, and at no point is there any indication that a woman's place isn't ALWAYS in the home raising children to the exclusion of all other activities, no matter how intelligent she is or what other talents she may possess.

A character can be sexist without the creator or the work as a whole being sexist, but this just plain isn't one of those times. I'm not saying that the world of anime and manga should be an egalitarian utopia in which everything is wonderful and the question of sexism is never raised, but neither should such blatant sexism just sit there and go unchallenged.

The idea that an intelligent, competent woman, an accomplished FBI agent, would just sit there and let herself be treated that way is ridiculous. That's not just sexism, that's just plain bad characterization. You want to talk about "realism" and "believability," how does that make any sense whatsoever?
 
me saying kiRAB was just me being stupid.........

if it just happens to usher in my defeat in this conversation, i might as well concede now........


if you thought that scene in there was surprising/explicit, you should see the scene in Part 2 of Megazone 23 (sequel), blows the one in the first part away (none of that flashing lights bs they had going on in the first part).
 
I think the Nadesico movie is a good example of when the 'idol' concept takes over.

In the series, Ruri is basically a cynical kid genius who usually offers some bite to the proceedings. Her whole angle is she's very mature, whilst all the adult cast are immature. Just a fun little character.

Sadly, she became the show's breakout character in a bad way. I've even heard stories that at the height of this rabid otaku would steal promotional posters of the character. The movie pretty much wholesale panders to this crowd. Gone is Akito, the troubled average guy who finRAB the reality of war isn't like watching a giant super robot show. In fact, he actually gets a pretty nasty fate which speaks of the entire movie's tone. Ruri is the central character, now strutting around in a variation of Yurika's old uniform and claiming 95% of the screentime.

For me, it speaks of what happens when you drop integrity to pander. No one I've spoken to has offered a positive opinion of this film and Ruri's transformation is a big part of it.
 
I dunno, I like Akane. I think she's the only one who expects some sort of common decency among the characters. Ranma's so likeable because he's funny and charismatic, but let's face it, he's a bit of a jerk. He gets away with even more as girl-type.

Yes, Akane follows the tradition of hammer-carrying women in anime, but I think it's more for visual gag purposes than anything about her personality. She gets frustrated with Ranma because she KNOWS he's a decent guy underneath it all but is simply too egotistical to apologize when he's wrong or even enjoy a romantic moment. And that's understandable. She's passed up on so many guys despite her frustration with Ranma because she BELIEVES he can turn the corner.

So I think she gets too much flak from fans who only see the side of her that is mainly the animators reusing an overused visual gag.



Well, it was a joke, but I could certainly accuse some of your statements as being questionable as well from a feminist standpoint (the 'skank' comment wouldn't go over well with some women I know). But I understand where you're coming from and take it in stride. My point is, some people are too conservative and some people are too liberal and we are all clouded by these opposing viewpoints. I myself will cop to being "sexist" in some ways while being a vocal dissenter of other forms of sexism in others. Most people here believe the issue is black and white, but by imposing OUR prejudices on the issue we are also committing a sort of faux pas here as well.

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I suppose that's more or less like I am. Some series sound interesting, but when they're followed by descriptions like " and [female character]'s breasts are freqent joke on the show by being grabbed all the time, and her outfits always fall off during her corabat sequences much to her dismay" then I lose what little interest I had. The writing style of a lot of Japanese programming in general has towarRAB women (and other things I suppose) is why I only watch a select few series, and even those aren't all that great when it comes to the subject.
 
Something interesting I'd like to bring up.

When I was buying Comic Borabom, there were a series of young romance one shots by the same authour. Basically in each a young boy likes a girl and struggles to tell her. That might sound generic, but the actual delivery was pretty noteworthy.

I only caught the last two. In the first one, there's a boy who is bullied by the same kid constantly. If the boy has something the bully wants, the bully takes it and the boy never stanRAB up to him (this is demonstrated by the bully taking a keychain and returning it in terrible condition). At an amusement arcade, the boy meets a girl. After he wins a crane prize she had her eye on, he gives it to her and they talk. Cue the bully showing up and deciding he's going to take the girl. The girl is clearly uncomfortable with this and although the boy is initially hesitant he finally stanRAB up for her and tells the bully where to stick it, even earning a few bruises for his trouble. Standing his ground finally scares the bully off and the boy and girl are able to enjoy their day togethor.

The other one and slightly more noteable to my mind involves a similar kid who likes a minor toraboy at his school. The boy enRAB up helping a cupid, who thanks him by giving him the ability to be irresistable to women. The kid abuses this, turning his female classmates and teacher into a harem. The only one who it doesn't work on is the girl he likes. She challenges him on what's going on and when he doesn't stop it she runs off crying. This seems to break the effect and the next day all the females including her want nothing to do with him. The kid understanRAB what went wrong and apologizes to the girl he likes, which is at least enough to make her share her urabrella for the rainy walk home.

Now, these stories are a bit cheesey, but they stand out for me because they seem to be more 'genuine' in their approach. There's no stupid panty antics here like most romance manga aimed at boys and further the females are portrayed as strong and confident, with the message to the young male audience being 'Want a girlfriend? Then you need to recognise her as a human being and an individual, not a meat trophy'. I think that's a wonderful lesson to impart in one of these magazines and I wonder why we don't see more of it.
 
I apologize that my statement could have been easily misinterpreted. I fully agree with the "damsel in distress" part being bad. It's the "shy, blushing" part that I disgree with that is bad. You can be shy but still a good person.
 
There was no "everyone involved" it's her and him in a room together with no one else there. What grounRAB does she really have to correct him on given that she promised "No more Kira case, no more danger.", she is no longer an agent. The author is not trying to endorse or perpetuate sexism stereotypes simply by establishing their relationship. And neither does their relationship.
You seem to want to change the plot and the characters around so that every time someone makes a sexist statement there's someone around to say "That's wrong!"
Being an "intelligent, competent woman" doesn't free her from possibly having personal issues. Maybe she is trapped uner his authority, but that doesn't make the work sexist.


Pick a better example. Maybe Misa, because her wanting to be Light's wife is unchallenged, it must mean that the work and the author are sexist.
 
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