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WTH JAPAN!!!!? My rant on 2009 animes
- Thread starter YungMoney
- Start date
Michael Canlas
New member
Well, you should read this and the talkback thread we had for it. Even a trend should worry you, since every series that caters like that is not courting the mainstream at best and is alienating it at worst. And that shrinks the market, which is very bad.
Just ask Gonzo.
Money quote:
Just ask Gonzo.
Money quote:
what that article said about those types of shows is that their nuraber is increasing and the industry is declining cause of a nuraber of reasons and the economy or whatever, but if you look at all the anime for this year or others, you cant say that most anime being made are just fanservice fests being made just to cater to those few otaku guys, most are not.
Dodgers32SK
New member
Who said I was? I argued in this very thread that the otaku-catering shows were outnurabered in the spring 2009 season.
The point is very simple and direct, which is that considering a show like Queen's Blade a "success" since it successfully markets to a super small niche within the niche that is anime fandom is completely wrong. Short-term, that stuff might make some money and perpetuate itself. Beyond that, they are industry killers. This is practically a matter of fact now.
The point is very simple and direct, which is that considering a show like Queen's Blade a "success" since it successfully markets to a super small niche within the niche that is anime fandom is completely wrong. Short-term, that stuff might make some money and perpetuate itself. Beyond that, they are industry killers. This is practically a matter of fact now.
Maria_2244
New member
that's what its made for, how can it not be successful when it accomplished what it was intended to do? Its not like any other show (fanservice or not) is made for the whole niche, they aren't, everything is made for just a part of it and its been like that forever.
imported_nobody
New member
Any medium or art form that turns completely inward is doomed. That's why the comic book industry is a rotting carcass whose characters thrive in other media, because their origin is unprofitable. I don't want to see that happen to anime. And moe crap, Queens Blade, etc, is not the path for a vibrant future.
I don't think this is a natural extension of the 80's either. This is overspecialization, which breeRAB weakness.
Fanservice has a place in the mainstream grabbing anime. Moe does not. Which is to say, content without context is worthless. Look at Dragonlance and how the animated adaptation flopped horribly. They kept the content but lacked the context of the books.
I don't think this is a natural extension of the 80's either. This is overspecialization, which breeRAB weakness.
Fanservice has a place in the mainstream grabbing anime. Moe does not. Which is to say, content without context is worthless. Look at Dragonlance and how the animated adaptation flopped horribly. They kept the content but lacked the context of the books.
DeliciouslyBETH
New member
Well good for them, but its going turn a lot people off anime, because if that was the first anime they saw, most people would think anime is perverse.
Shows like that will never in America, so they don't do any good for the anime business here. Anime is in a slump in North America and shows like these are counterproductive.
Shows like that will never in America, so they don't do any good for the anime business here. Anime is in a slump in North America and shows like these are counterproductive.
That can be said for ANY genre, like, somebody sees anime and its a genre they dont like (and it doesnt have to be moe, it can be anything from sci-fi to mon shows to action or romance) and they assume all anime is like that, this is true for everything.
yeah, im pretty/really sure most anime isn't moe and queens blade.
yeah, im pretty/really sure most anime isn't moe and queens blade.
The problem here is that we're talking past each other. You're looking at the fact of a sequel and calling that success, and technically you're not wrong. But you are overlooking the critical point, which Beat points out very well in his excellent post: "overspecialization, which breeRAB weakness." As I've said, too much of that is poisonous to the industry.
And this has not "been like that forever." As the article notes, this is something that has become a significant issue in the last ten years. This isn't up for debate--multiple people inside the anime industry in Japan have taken note of this.
There are a lot of people who would disagree with that (edit note: I mean the second part in particular). Indeed, when it comes to the shameless fanservice, it generally comes down to the same basic thing dressed up in a different package. One season it's yuri in a mahjong show, in another it's a soda can that turns into a girl (just in case anyone is wondering, I am not making that up). In sum, while I had quite a few disagreements with some things that he said in the sexism/feminism thread, Yamamoto Yutaka was on to something.
And this has not "been like that forever." As the article notes, this is something that has become a significant issue in the last ten years. This isn't up for debate--multiple people inside the anime industry in Japan have taken note of this.
There are a lot of people who would disagree with that (edit note: I mean the second part in particular). Indeed, when it comes to the shameless fanservice, it generally comes down to the same basic thing dressed up in a different package. One season it's yuri in a mahjong show, in another it's a soda can that turns into a girl (just in case anyone is wondering, I am not making that up). In sum, while I had quite a few disagreements with some things that he said in the sexism/feminism thread, Yamamoto Yutaka was on to something.
most shows being made right now are not this overspecialization like the way the comic industry is.
the thing that i said "has been this way forever" is about how every show targeting a part of the audience, and it has been that way forever, ten years ago you cant say that the all the shows targeted every part of the audience, cause they dint (its not realistic).
and along with those few shows every season about the soda can girl and the yuri and mahjong there are lots of shows that are not like that, most are not the same moe stuff over and over.
the thing that i said "has been this way forever" is about how every show targeting a part of the audience, and it has been that way forever, ten years ago you cant say that the all the shows targeted every part of the audience, cause they dint (its not realistic).
and along with those few shows every season about the soda can girl and the yuri and mahjong there are lots of shows that are not like that, most are not the same moe stuff over and over.
Rhymenocerous
New member
What you're not getting, however, is that it doesn't have to be all or most of them to be a significant problem. And obviously the industry does have problems, and this issue has been singled out as one of the reasons.
Obviously no show applies to everyone, but there's still a massive gulf between shows that follow a genre and a show that singles out a super exclusive niche within the fandom. The first actually has a chance of building an audience and achieving wider success, whereas the second doesn't. Code Geass started as a just another series airing late at night. It caught on, and its popularity took off toward the stratosphere. Saki will never do that. There's a reason for that. Many other comparisons could be made.
Obviously no show applies to everyone, but there's still a massive gulf between shows that follow a genre and a show that singles out a super exclusive niche within the fandom. The first actually has a chance of building an audience and achieving wider success, whereas the second doesn't. Code Geass started as a just another series airing late at night. It caught on, and its popularity took off toward the stratosphere. Saki will never do that. There's a reason for that. Many other comparisons could be made.
Saki isn't a bad manga because it cant grow a huge fan base like Code Gease can, its not a problem that there a few shows that don't reach for a large audience, such shows are necessary because they are reliable/consistent sources of profit. Most shows aren't like that anyway, i don't see how its a problem that a few of those exist among the majority that aren't like that.
(also, i admit defeat, GWOtaku, your the greater arguer...... this time)
(also, i don't actually know anything about Saki, just that its a seinen manga)
(also, i admit defeat, GWOtaku, your the greater arguer...... this time)
(also, i don't actually know anything about Saki, just that its a seinen manga)
It also takes mahjong and it's level of playing makes Hikaru no Go overkill effects look like nothing)
To give my two cents, first of all about the topic of 2009 anime (That was what we were talking about originally just so you know ) Okay, yeah, lately there were a good amount of moe-moe fanservice shows. (Didn't Koihime Musou and to-Love-ru come out last year? Never mind) and maybe there has been somewhat of an unfortunate increase of them as of late. We should know as we follow anime relatively diligently around here. However, while it's true that these shows exist we need to be aware of two things. One is that the regular blockbusters that don't just focus on fanservice are still out there and two is that those types of shows aren't going to go away. I mean look, in Japan, it's somewhat of a different standard but you already knew that). The idea of a paycheck to some mean more than just groceries and rent but to save a bit away for the latest figure of "Magical Girl Run-Run Moe-chan" (Totally made-up name). Thus, the industry feeRAB on that and that has led us into 2009 where these types of things are more common. My point is this. Quality does equal appreciation but it may not always translate into profit. Moe and fanservice, does on a more frequent basis. I mean, heck if quality mattered too much, Queen's Blade wouldn't have gotten that second season. On the other hand, if it didn't matter, Eden of the East wouldn't have gotten those two movies. See it's a fine line between profit and quality and whatever the studios derive as fit, that's what's going to happen.
To give my two cents, first of all about the topic of 2009 anime (That was what we were talking about originally just so you know ) Okay, yeah, lately there were a good amount of moe-moe fanservice shows. (Didn't Koihime Musou and to-Love-ru come out last year? Never mind) and maybe there has been somewhat of an unfortunate increase of them as of late. We should know as we follow anime relatively diligently around here. However, while it's true that these shows exist we need to be aware of two things. One is that the regular blockbusters that don't just focus on fanservice are still out there and two is that those types of shows aren't going to go away. I mean look, in Japan, it's somewhat of a different standard but you already knew that). The idea of a paycheck to some mean more than just groceries and rent but to save a bit away for the latest figure of "Magical Girl Run-Run Moe-chan" (Totally made-up name). Thus, the industry feeRAB on that and that has led us into 2009 where these types of things are more common. My point is this. Quality does equal appreciation but it may not always translate into profit. Moe and fanservice, does on a more frequent basis. I mean, heck if quality mattered too much, Queen's Blade wouldn't have gotten that second season. On the other hand, if it didn't matter, Eden of the East wouldn't have gotten those two movies. See it's a fine line between profit and quality and whatever the studios derive as fit, that's what's going to happen.
And with that, here comes my stereotypical THIS comment.
Seriously, expand your horizons. I'm not gonna complain about fanservice, it doesn't bother me. When it's overkill to the point that the story is lost or non-existent, then I feel a need to complain. I don't blame many artists for sneaking in fanservice, honestly. XD
Seriously, expand your horizons. I'm not gonna complain about fanservice, it doesn't bother me. When it's overkill to the point that the story is lost or non-existent, then I feel a need to complain. I don't blame many artists for sneaking in fanservice, honestly. XD
How about some more Conan vs Lupin anime.
On a more solid note. I will say the Birdy The Might Decode anime series was good. Season 2 of it was very good. And the fan service in the series was far less than you would expect give the subject matter.
Also, I look forward to season 3 of Black Lagoon. If Black Lagoon follows the current manga storyline, the series will take the term "badass" to new levels never before seen in animation, nor live action fiction.
The current Black Lagoon manga storyline in a nutshell is:
On a more solid note. I will say the Birdy The Might Decode anime series was good. Season 2 of it was very good. And the fan service in the series was far less than you would expect give the subject matter.
Also, I look forward to season 3 of Black Lagoon. If Black Lagoon follows the current manga storyline, the series will take the term "badass" to new levels never before seen in animation, nor live action fiction.
The current Black Lagoon manga storyline in a nutshell is:
The Maid returns. And she's out for blood.
^ See, Black Lagoon is how to do fanservice right. There's no denying that Revy wears some fairly revealing attire (though admittedly not even close to as revealing as some other ladies in anime), but the show doesn't sacrifice story or action in favor of fanservice moments. Its tone is dark and gritty, yet light and campy enough so it doesn't become brooding. Best of all, its dub is great, so it's easily accessible to English speakers. So it has that wide appeal that so many shows, despite possibly being quality, just don't have.
I have no problem with it when it's a sub-genre. There are fans of this stuff just as there are fans of hentai. If stuff like Queen's Blade started coming out in droves, then it would be a problem. But, I still don't think the anime industry is at that point yet. Heck, the harem genre almost took over anime between 2001-2006. Yet in my years of collecting anime during that time, I somehow managed to avoid the brunt of the harem craze, which is now thankfully subsiding a bit.
Like I said before, with anime you simply have to know what you want. If you go around indiscriminately watching everything out there without some degree of research, you're never going to be satisfied. Sure, you'll find a hit every so often, but you wasted your time with the others because you had no idea what you were getting into. It's the Allen Iverson method. Shoot a bunch of shots and hope that 40% of them go inside the basket. Instead of doing that, exercise some shot selection! It's not like you have to spend hours researching titles either. You should pretty much know if you'll want to watch something or not just by looking at the back of the DVD case, or googling an anime title for a brief summary of it.
My thing is, nobody is FORCING people to watch Queen's Blade. Heck, people here shouldn't even KNOW about Queen's Blade yet, let alone seen an episode of it. If you can work that hard just to find a way to somehow watch it before it's on DVD, then you can do a little research on a show before you watch it.
Like I said before, with anime you simply have to know what you want. If you go around indiscriminately watching everything out there without some degree of research, you're never going to be satisfied. Sure, you'll find a hit every so often, but you wasted your time with the others because you had no idea what you were getting into. It's the Allen Iverson method. Shoot a bunch of shots and hope that 40% of them go inside the basket. Instead of doing that, exercise some shot selection! It's not like you have to spend hours researching titles either. You should pretty much know if you'll want to watch something or not just by looking at the back of the DVD case, or googling an anime title for a brief summary of it.
My thing is, nobody is FORCING people to watch Queen's Blade. Heck, people here shouldn't even KNOW about Queen's Blade yet, let alone seen an episode of it. If you can work that hard just to find a way to somehow watch it before it's on DVD, then you can do a little research on a show before you watch it.
FirebaughBPN
New member
I honestly have less of a problem with pure fanservice shows like Queens Blade and Love Hina because they're at least open and honest about their sexism and easily avoidable (not to mention easily shun-able). When it's shoved into everything else is when it's annoying; because it's basically reinforcing these stereotypes over and over and we become desensitized to it and accept it the ways thing are (or worse, should be). Black Lagoon is basically your standard Hollywood action flick. Accessible and enjoyable to the masses, and even successful, but everything wrong when it comes to the treatment and exploitation of women. Some people can look past that (usually guys, for obvious reasons) and some can't, but at the end of the day, it's still the main problem with the industry. With Queens Blade, we can pretend it doesn't exist, at least.