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Would you use a Nokia smart-phone if it lacked Symbian?
- Thread starter Dieter4Real
- Start date
countryisking
New member
That's what I harp on. That match would have worked perfectly; it was relatively "cheap", and would have solved most of Nokia's problems, offering a high end solution, a tablet solution, and an entry into the U.S. market.
If anything, OPK had to be let go for NOT doing that deal. It was just such a no brainer.
If anything, OPK had to be let go for NOT doing that deal. It was just such a no brainer.
Mrs.Tucker
New member
This would all depend if the particular phone got my vibe. I won't make a decision based on brand however. It will be one specific to model.
Let's say I would imagine these has an Android and a decent processor, would I want these?
Nokia N97 - No
X6 - No
C6 - Yes
C6-01 - No
C7 - No
N8 - No
N900 - Yes
E7 - Yes
N9 - Yes
Let's say I would imagine these has an Android and a decent processor, would I want these?
Nokia N97 - No
X6 - No
C6 - Yes
C6-01 - No
C7 - No
N8 - No
N900 - Yes
E7 - Yes
N9 - Yes
Bikerchcka21
New member
Wow... this is a tough question to answer. A really good question though.
I would probably be more likely to purchase a Nokia with an OS other than Symbian. Symbian's health appears to be better but I'm not willing to take another gamble until they can get the management in place to properly develop and manage that OS on their devices. Nokia makes great hardware for the most part. So if they go with another OS, I would be willing to give it a look.
With that said, WP7 and Android are so different (and I've used both pretty extensively). Android is more than capable in doing most tasks. But it's achilles is the same weakness that Nokia has. Updates depend on the phone manufacturer. And nothing against Android, but the UI isn't anything great. It's very symbian-ish but simplified immensely. Nothing groundbreaking. WP7 is built on the windows mobile platform so it doesn't appear to rely on some java backbone. But it's such a new OS that it's missing a lot of basic features. But what it does do, it does great. The strength that WP7 has is that updates are done my Microsoft and not Nokia.
If they decide to do Android, it'll be the death of Symbian. They have a hard enough time with one OS that having a team just to keep Android updated on future phones would be too much. If they decide to do something for the short term, then WP7 would probably require the least manpower now and in the future until they can get Meego released and mature.
I would probably be more likely to purchase a Nokia with an OS other than Symbian. Symbian's health appears to be better but I'm not willing to take another gamble until they can get the management in place to properly develop and manage that OS on their devices. Nokia makes great hardware for the most part. So if they go with another OS, I would be willing to give it a look.
With that said, WP7 and Android are so different (and I've used both pretty extensively). Android is more than capable in doing most tasks. But it's achilles is the same weakness that Nokia has. Updates depend on the phone manufacturer. And nothing against Android, but the UI isn't anything great. It's very symbian-ish but simplified immensely. Nothing groundbreaking. WP7 is built on the windows mobile platform so it doesn't appear to rely on some java backbone. But it's such a new OS that it's missing a lot of basic features. But what it does do, it does great. The strength that WP7 has is that updates are done my Microsoft and not Nokia.
If they decide to do Android, it'll be the death of Symbian. They have a hard enough time with one OS that having a team just to keep Android updated on future phones would be too much. If they decide to do something for the short term, then WP7 would probably require the least manpower now and in the future until they can get Meego released and mature.
I don't see how. Android is fragmenting as bad as WinMo was, and Symbian too for that matter. Windows Phone avoids that entirely. The only Android phone I'd buy would be the Samsung Galaxy 550 on Virgin, and that's mainly because it's cheap and has a great plan attached to it, just like the only Symbian I'd get is a cheap one like the 5230 - and that's because I switched to Wind. Both Android and Symbian are platforms that are nice to have if you have a cheap phone in the feature phone price range, but if you're actively going to buy a smartphone, they're pretty bad. Windows Phone 7 on the other hand is great as a smartphone, assuming it has the features you need (right now lack of Vancouver transit directions in Bing maps is the only drawback for me, for others, it's not an issue at all).
Yeah, I'm sure all the shareholders were pretty pissed off about that. Hell, even looking at how easy it was to port webOS apps to the N900 - they wouldn't have even needed to can the work they were doing on MeeGo.
Same. I find it rather bizarre that people would actually stick around for Symbian and abandon Nokia if they ditched it. Seems rather backwards.
Yeah, I agree with this. They can just put out a WP7 phone, maybe do a refresh next year, and depending on how well it sells keep it going, rather like how Palm had their WinMo Treos on top of PalmOS ones. If they were to do what Huawei is doing for Android though, in terms of having the "with Google" releases, it wouldn't be so bad.
Yeah, I'm sure all the shareholders were pretty pissed off about that. Hell, even looking at how easy it was to port webOS apps to the N900 - they wouldn't have even needed to can the work they were doing on MeeGo.
Same. I find it rather bizarre that people would actually stick around for Symbian and abandon Nokia if they ditched it. Seems rather backwards.
Yeah, I agree with this. They can just put out a WP7 phone, maybe do a refresh next year, and depending on how well it sells keep it going, rather like how Palm had their WinMo Treos on top of PalmOS ones. If they were to do what Huawei is doing for Android though, in terms of having the "with Google" releases, it wouldn't be so bad.
hamsterfreak
New member
Same here.
Nonsense. Android only has three main resolutions; Windows Mobile has 17 official resolutions. Android display resolutions are not even specified in coordinates like 320x480 or 800x480. Android apps declare resolution support in broad terms like Low Density, Medium Density and High Density, then let the OS natively scale the display.
That's the problem. Windows Phone 7 doesn't scale. Android does. It goes from low end ARM11 entry level smartphones to dual core 10" tablets, plus robots and TV in between. FUDsters like to call it fragmentation, when in fact, it displays the key attribute of a Unix/Linux system --- scalability.
Currently Windows Phone 7 is stuck using an old generation Qualcomm 8250 chipset, which is a 2 year old SoC. Android runs on different brands of ARM11 chips, runs on OMAP6, Snapdragon, Tegra2, Hummingbird, Broadcom, Marvell, and Intel SoCs. Android is now going 4G with dual core processors.
Microsoft has a bad way of keeping schedules. They knew Windows Phone 7 needed cut and paste when bloggers complained about it in March 2010. They had all those months to implement C/P between March and its late October release. People were saying Microsoft will surely send them an update early January. It didn't. Came February. It didn't. Now it seems it will be on March. Instead of the big update people were hoaxing about, it appears to be a relatively tiny one. Gets C/P and maybe CDMA support. The CDMA WP7 phones were supposed to have come out since December. When Trophy comes out on Verizon, if ever, since I no longer see it mentioned in Verizon upcoming releases, there is no point to it anymore with Verizon iPHone 4 now, IP5 in June, and all sorts of super Android 4G dual core phones in between.
The latest news is that WP7 might extend chip support to stuff like the Qualcomm 7230. In some future patch. Androids have been using that chip since last October with the Desire Z. While HTC is already planning phones like the Desire HD2, with 1.2GHz dual core Snapdragons 8660.
The problem of Microsoft doing updates is that Microsoft does the updates. If a WP7 phone has problems, the fixes has to come from Microsoft itself. If your Samsung Focus has a problem, it won't get fixed immediately. It has to wait until Microsoft has to collate all the problems with other phones like the HD7 and Venue Pro, into one big patch, where the patch contains all the code to fix all the bugs in these WP7 handsets and all that code still has to into your particular handset even though your handset doesn't have the problems the others had.
On Android, you have two kinds of updates. The first update are OS updates. But there is another kind of updates that are done independently of Google, and those are made directly by HTC, Samsung, Motorola, to solve the bugs immediately and specifically on their phones. Thus a problem emerges on a handset, they can immediately send a bug fix to these handsets within days or a week without an OS upgrade. This kind of decentralized bug fixing is not possible on WP7.
The third kind of update on Android is that Google apps are now decoupled from the OS. If the Bing Search has to be upgraded, it cannot be upgraded without an OS upgrade. If Bing Maps has to be upgraded, it can only be upgraded with a WP7 OS upgrade. To upgrade Windows Marketplace, it has to be through a WP7 OS upgrade.
In Android, GMail, YouTube, Google Maps, Search, Voice Actions, Street View, Latitude, well pretty much all the Google apps, are listed separately in the Market. You don't need an OS upgrade to upgrade these. You just download them from the Market. These allows Google apps to develop on their own pace separate from the OS itself. The Android Market itself upgrades automatically with its own push update--- you open the app, and you see the old Market. Then all of sudden it turns white, and second later, it transforms to the new Market. No OS update is needed.
That's the problem. Windows Phone 7 doesn't scale. Android does. It goes from low end ARM11 entry level smartphones to dual core 10" tablets, plus robots and TV in between. FUDsters like to call it fragmentation, when in fact, it displays the key attribute of a Unix/Linux system --- scalability.
Currently Windows Phone 7 is stuck using an old generation Qualcomm 8250 chipset, which is a 2 year old SoC. Android runs on different brands of ARM11 chips, runs on OMAP6, Snapdragon, Tegra2, Hummingbird, Broadcom, Marvell, and Intel SoCs. Android is now going 4G with dual core processors.
Microsoft has a bad way of keeping schedules. They knew Windows Phone 7 needed cut and paste when bloggers complained about it in March 2010. They had all those months to implement C/P between March and its late October release. People were saying Microsoft will surely send them an update early January. It didn't. Came February. It didn't. Now it seems it will be on March. Instead of the big update people were hoaxing about, it appears to be a relatively tiny one. Gets C/P and maybe CDMA support. The CDMA WP7 phones were supposed to have come out since December. When Trophy comes out on Verizon, if ever, since I no longer see it mentioned in Verizon upcoming releases, there is no point to it anymore with Verizon iPHone 4 now, IP5 in June, and all sorts of super Android 4G dual core phones in between.
The latest news is that WP7 might extend chip support to stuff like the Qualcomm 7230. In some future patch. Androids have been using that chip since last October with the Desire Z. While HTC is already planning phones like the Desire HD2, with 1.2GHz dual core Snapdragons 8660.
The problem of Microsoft doing updates is that Microsoft does the updates. If a WP7 phone has problems, the fixes has to come from Microsoft itself. If your Samsung Focus has a problem, it won't get fixed immediately. It has to wait until Microsoft has to collate all the problems with other phones like the HD7 and Venue Pro, into one big patch, where the patch contains all the code to fix all the bugs in these WP7 handsets and all that code still has to into your particular handset even though your handset doesn't have the problems the others had.
On Android, you have two kinds of updates. The first update are OS updates. But there is another kind of updates that are done independently of Google, and those are made directly by HTC, Samsung, Motorola, to solve the bugs immediately and specifically on their phones. Thus a problem emerges on a handset, they can immediately send a bug fix to these handsets within days or a week without an OS upgrade. This kind of decentralized bug fixing is not possible on WP7.
The third kind of update on Android is that Google apps are now decoupled from the OS. If the Bing Search has to be upgraded, it cannot be upgraded without an OS upgrade. If Bing Maps has to be upgraded, it can only be upgraded with a WP7 OS upgrade. To upgrade Windows Marketplace, it has to be through a WP7 OS upgrade.
In Android, GMail, YouTube, Google Maps, Search, Voice Actions, Street View, Latitude, well pretty much all the Google apps, are listed separately in the Market. You don't need an OS upgrade to upgrade these. You just download them from the Market. These allows Google apps to develop on their own pace separate from the OS itself. The Android Market itself upgrades automatically with its own push update--- you open the app, and you see the old Market. Then all of sudden it turns white, and second later, it transforms to the new Market. No OS update is needed.
Spanky Doodle
New member
Yes for just the phone. NO, unless Nokia gets rid of OVI. No, if they go to Windows.
Developer track record with Android updates is terrible. You're talking about the theoretical advantages of Android, but in practice they don't exist. Hell, they don't even exist for the N1 - Google just gave up on fixing problems.
Scaling down isn't good. It leaves you the same place it left N95 users - with powerful hardware that no developers take advantage of. Sure, if you get a cheap Huawei you get yourself a decent Android with some nice features, and for the price it's a good deal, but if you get a Galaxy S there's hardly any software out there to take advantage of it. WP7 scales up, in a couple years 800x480 won't seem like a big deal, it'll be on cheap phones, and you'll have some low and midrange WP7 phones made to lower specs, with a large degree of already available software, while newer hardware has been released and new software gets put out to take advantage of it.
Fixed resolutions and constrained hardware is what got iOS so far ahead among developers. It's easy to develop for if you have one hardware form factor (plus keyboards, optionally), one resolution, and one hardware platform, with a few more added on. Hell, limited multitasking makes it easy to develop for as well so you don't have to worry about compatibility problems. All that which made iOS take off and completely spank Symbian is what WP7 is doing. It has some holes now, but they're getting fixed a lot faster than Apple did, and with a couple more updates it'll be up to speed with iOS and quite a bit ahead in other areas as well.
Scaling down isn't good. It leaves you the same place it left N95 users - with powerful hardware that no developers take advantage of. Sure, if you get a cheap Huawei you get yourself a decent Android with some nice features, and for the price it's a good deal, but if you get a Galaxy S there's hardly any software out there to take advantage of it. WP7 scales up, in a couple years 800x480 won't seem like a big deal, it'll be on cheap phones, and you'll have some low and midrange WP7 phones made to lower specs, with a large degree of already available software, while newer hardware has been released and new software gets put out to take advantage of it.
Fixed resolutions and constrained hardware is what got iOS so far ahead among developers. It's easy to develop for if you have one hardware form factor (plus keyboards, optionally), one resolution, and one hardware platform, with a few more added on. Hell, limited multitasking makes it easy to develop for as well so you don't have to worry about compatibility problems. All that which made iOS take off and completely spank Symbian is what WP7 is doing. It has some holes now, but they're getting fixed a lot faster than Apple did, and with a couple more updates it'll be up to speed with iOS and quite a bit ahead in other areas as well.
What do you mean? Updates happen to Android phones all the time. I got my fair share of Android phones a collection even, and they're updated to Android 2.2. Officially.
Non OS updates to Androids happen all the time. These updates fix bug and lag, and they don't need to be packaged with a full OS update.
I find it funny that you, who don't own any Android phones, feel qualified to judge the updates.
Even the phone people complain about updates, like the Galaxy S, already got updates, but the Focus ain't.
That's BS. What a bad system is to code against fixed hard points in the screen.
What iOS did was to trap itself with a fixed resolution, and for a time period, 9 months in fact, Android had higher resolutions. The immediate effect is the iPhone 3GS lacked screens that were as brilliant as the Motorola Droid. That 9 months allowed Android to put a big toehold in the market and when the iPhone 4 finally came out with Retina, Android was here to stay and the momentum was unstoppable.
What you don't know is that iOS 4 had recommended guidelines for devs to abandon hard coded point references, to use instead virtual point references where the OS can fill in the values. iOS4 development for the Retina Display and for the iPad display are not done with direct values representing pixel points in the screen.
"Limited" multitasking has nothing to do with it either. Even pre iOS 4, every iOS app is always preemptively timed sliced, with time shared between it and the OS processes. This is not the old MacOS. There is no cooperative multitasking here.
Native scaling was introduced in Android since v1.6. Since then, all apps are written against a virtual display. If the app is untenable for a QVGA, make a declaration within the app, and the Android Market will omit the app on QVGA displays.
Also, its complete RUBBISH to say if you get a Galaxy S there is no software out there to take advantage of it. I got full blown Asphalt 5 on my Galaxy S, running 3D on a high frame rate against the PowerSGX 540 GPU. Have you seen Google Earth? Its 3D. Have you seen Google Maps with high resolution satellite display, or 3D line tracing? It gives you a TRON like view when you move over New York City. There are many eye dropping 3D animated live wallpapers where 3D perspective changes in real time with the phone's accelerometer.
Non OS updates to Androids happen all the time. These updates fix bug and lag, and they don't need to be packaged with a full OS update.
I find it funny that you, who don't own any Android phones, feel qualified to judge the updates.
Even the phone people complain about updates, like the Galaxy S, already got updates, but the Focus ain't.
That's BS. What a bad system is to code against fixed hard points in the screen.
What iOS did was to trap itself with a fixed resolution, and for a time period, 9 months in fact, Android had higher resolutions. The immediate effect is the iPhone 3GS lacked screens that were as brilliant as the Motorola Droid. That 9 months allowed Android to put a big toehold in the market and when the iPhone 4 finally came out with Retina, Android was here to stay and the momentum was unstoppable.
What you don't know is that iOS 4 had recommended guidelines for devs to abandon hard coded point references, to use instead virtual point references where the OS can fill in the values. iOS4 development for the Retina Display and for the iPad display are not done with direct values representing pixel points in the screen.
"Limited" multitasking has nothing to do with it either. Even pre iOS 4, every iOS app is always preemptively timed sliced, with time shared between it and the OS processes. This is not the old MacOS. There is no cooperative multitasking here.
Native scaling was introduced in Android since v1.6. Since then, all apps are written against a virtual display. If the app is untenable for a QVGA, make a declaration within the app, and the Android Market will omit the app on QVGA displays.
Also, its complete RUBBISH to say if you get a Galaxy S there is no software out there to take advantage of it. I got full blown Asphalt 5 on my Galaxy S, running 3D on a high frame rate against the PowerSGX 540 GPU. Have you seen Google Earth? Its 3D. Have you seen Google Maps with high resolution satellite display, or 3D line tracing? It gives you a TRON like view when you move over New York City. There are many eye dropping 3D animated live wallpapers where 3D perspective changes in real time with the phone's accelerometer.
Disregarding the rest of your post, do you really think that being trapped by a fixed resolution was what caused android to gain a toehold in 9 months? It had nothing to do with the second largest carrier in the USA, who didn't have the iPhone but had thousands to millions of consumers frothing at the mouth for a phone that was comparable to it, releasing the motorola droid?
donnetta62
New member
Given how long 2.2 has been out and that some phone just recently got updated to 2.1, that doesn't support your argument at all. It's still bad that you have to wait that long unless you have a Google Nexus Phone.
I don't need to own an Android to know that updates take way too long to come out. I've got enough friends who gripe about how long they have to wait for it.
It wasn't higher resolutions, it was Verizon.
Yeah, your examples are games and Google software. Not really helping your case.
I don't need to own an Android to know that updates take way too long to come out. I've got enough friends who gripe about how long they have to wait for it.
It wasn't higher resolutions, it was Verizon.
Yeah, your examples are games and Google software. Not really helping your case.