Would it have been necessary to end the Pokemon series at Kanto?

So if you tried something new but it turned out it was bad, you wouldn't take anymore risks?

Tracey failed because of fans not taking a liking to him and because he outright sucked. How this means they can't ever try to use a different male character is beyond me because the way I see it, if they can replace a female for more eye candy, they can replace a male for another to get a boner over eye candy or a completely different persona thats just as likable. The one time it happened doesn't = permanent pattern. Nintendo isnt THAT repetitive!
 
At this point would it matter? They replaced him once already no point in doing it again, plus who would take his place? Theres no point in adding another trainer, it would just make more sense to drop him and once again what would be the point in that.
Not much of a defense brah, imo it doesnt seem like the "writers" know exactly what they wanted do with Ash. Even in the realm of fantasy, at this point of the series Ash should be an overpowered trainer and Pikachu proally one of the most powerful pokemon in existence. If this is what they wanted to do with Ash, you know have him go nowhere, then they should of just replaced him. I mean would anyone had even cared if it was some Ash like main character (have them do what they did in DIgimon with the google head leader) rolling around with May/Dawn and with someone like Brock accompanying them? Ash's journey should of ended after the Kanto or even the Orange IslanRAB, and have a new cast take over imo. The fact that Ash keeps going back to square one over and over again is what imo will always keep this series from recieving any kind of praise.
 
Not at all, meaning they can do it whenever they want to. Simply because people will still watch the damn thing regardless of who or what is on it, if people survived having two female recasts thus far.

Ok, first off, how the bollocks can anyone answer "who" when the answer is full of possibilities for any potential character to be added. Secondly, there's no point to the show being continued, no point for Ash to keep losing tournaments, no point for replacing female characters if they're gonna reuse the same exact goals, no point in reusing older plots, no point in shoving team rocket down our throats, etc etc.

There wouldn't be any point to replacing him or dropping him altogether. Doesn't mean they can't do it if they wanted to. Just because the show has kept him for 4 different sagas doesn't mean they can't boot him off now or later. There wouldn't be any point. But since when did points matter in the course of 12 years going on 13?


And this is where the disagreeing enRAB :P
 
The series only has over 600 episodes, not millions. As Terror of Death mentioned, just because Ash loses to Paul doesn't mean that he's a horrible trainer. I think that the writers have him lose so that they can build upon their rivalry and that way, whenever he does beat Paul, it will be that much more enjoyable.



Well, let me put it this way. Just because a plot has been used once before doesn't mean that they can never touch it again, especially when said plot was used for one episode over ten years ago. As I mentioned earlier, not every kid has seen that episode, so explaining it again allows for the kiRAB to learn more as to why Pikachu doesn't want to evolve. I personally don't consider that laziness, especially when the two episodes aren't that much alike at all.



Again, not every kid has watched the series from the beginning. They could have made a small flasrabroadack, but then they couldn't have flushed out Pikachu's intense refusal to evolve. In Japan, Pokemon, at least pre-AG, aren't available on DVD. There is also a channel or two that do repeat older episodes, but I believe that they air them out of order. Besides that, it isn't like every kid has to see the first season in order to follow the show now. It's only if they want to.



That was more along the lines to show how the two episodes were different, but I guess that didn't come out clearly enough.



Just because Ash has earned impressive titles in the past doesn't mean that he's a perfect trainer. After he defeated the final Frontier Brain, he lost to Gary. The series has always promoted the idea of how there's always someone better than you out there, which is why a trainer's journey is an on-going process. Plus, by losing to Paul and to a few Gym leaders, it shows that Ash still neeRAB to grow and develop his skills as a trainer.

As for the whole blocking one attack with another seemingly odd choice of an attack, I wouldn't blame that so much on Ash as the writers handling battles in the series in general. They've had different attacks block other attacks with other trainers' battles, such as May's and Dawn's Contests.



Actually, I don't think that way at all. I like having Ash as the main character and I don't really see a reason for them to replace him after 600+ episodes either. The idea of Pokemon being around in 2020 with Ash still as the main character honestly sounRAB pretty cool to me. Besides, back when I was first getting into Pokemon at nine, I never would have thought that I would still be watching new episodes at twenty. So, Pokemon being around for another decade really doesn't feel like a weird/bad thing for me.

As for Johto, I don't think that it was that bad either. I remeraber how parts of Johto, especially Johto League Champions, dragged on for awhile, but I would still buy both Johto seasons on DVD. The saga was still, overall, enjoyable for me. I could point out more of its flaws now, but I can do that with Kanto and AG as well.
 
Wait, wait, wait. Your point about recycled plots is understandable, but your biggest beef is with the "Pikachu refuses to evolve" plot? A plot that wasn't reused for a decade and was only used twice in 600 episodes? As opposed to, say, the newbie-trainer-who-doesn't-know-what-Tackle-does plot?

I'm sorry, but you need MUCH better examples. When a plot has been used fewer times than a Team Rocket flasrabroadack episode, it's invalid as a recycled plot.

That ain't happening until the games switch it up.

Meh, the Silver Conference had too many things bugging me to be awesome. The fact that Charizard was able to beat Gary's 3 most powerful Pok
 
Sometimes I wonder if May and Contests had borabed in the anime instead of being incredibly popular, the writers might have probably gone back to Misty after Hoenn ended.

Its kind of ironic how Contests went on to become a staple of the series in all the following arcs and how May paved the way to continue bringing in the female protagonist of each game. The writers even bring May back to the show more often whereas Misty has become a second Tracey.

Misty has only ever reappeared in 5 episodes out of the 340+ that have been produced after she left the series.
 
Must you take everything so literally? People exaggerate the episode count all the time because the series has been on for too damn long that it might as well be.

It would be a rivalry if both trainers saw each other as equals. The fact that Paul see's ash as a complete wimp (given their track record thus far) gives me the impression that Ash is the noob who can't seem to take the hint that he is not anywhere near Paul's level, and turns the relationship into Braggart vs expert. But no, this isn't anywhere near a rivalry.


The overall context of that episode has been resolved, therefore it shouldn't be brought up

How considerate of nintendo to care about unimportant details. Like I said before, flash back or reair older episodes. Repeating plot points in newer episodes to explain a decade old plot is stupid

What was there to flush out? He didn't want to evolve because he wanted to prove he could woop some ass without the extra power boost. There's nothing intense about his refusal, it's just a simple matter of pride.

Which is pathetic.

I dont think they need to see episodes in order to find one episode that explains Pikachu's issues all in one setting.

No one is saying he is. However he should be more competent to not make idiotic moves during battles, and that is where I am trying to get at.

True


"Part" of their excuse? THe backlash is common knowledge, but enlighten me on the other 50%

Its because it was long resolved and doesn't need to be brought again in a most half-assed way if you will.



Given his "backlash" im surprised he appears MORE than Misty >_>
 
I don't think the rivalry is all that one-sided. Yes, Paul thinks Ash is a wimp and constantly berates him but maybe he doesn't think of him as complete wuss. Off-screen he did tell his brother about Ash's Pickachu and how it was able to do Volt Tackle. He also stayed at the Oreburgh gym to watch Ash's gym battle and questioned him on why he competed in the Jubilife Contest. Paul also watched Ash's training session before Turtwig evolved. Not to mention, he never turns down a request to battle. He even gave Ash advice on how to beat Fantina and wanted to know if Ash was successful in unleashing Chimchar's Blaze ability.
 
Do people really think Ash was a better trainer in the Kanto or Johto era than he is now? Honestly?

I can see complaints that he is not as skilled as he should be, but how can anyone say he hasn't improved?

- In Kanto he only won 4 badges legit and got the other 4 because the Gym leaders felt sorry for him.

- In Johto, Ash's Johto team wound up becoming his weakest and least evolved team of the series. He also still got some pity badges from Whitney and Pryce.


I can see a bit of regression of Ash in Sinnoh from the Hoenn days, but he certainly never went back to the way he was in the Kanto/Johto era.
 
I know that it was a joke, but it feels too much of an exaggeration since over 600 isn't anywhere close to a million episodes.



Well, if you go by that, Ash and Gary weren't rivals since Gary didn't see Ash as his equal. At least he didn't until late Johto or so. While Paul doesn't see Ash as an equal to him, but he does seem interested in watching some of Ash's battles as well as knowing if Chimchar has mastered its Blaze ability. As Terror of Death mentioned, he was watching his first Gym match in DP and he never denies Ash a match, despite the fact that it always enRAB in either defeat or a tie. Paul was also watching Pikachu's match against that Raichu in DP as well.



This doesn't really make much sense to me. Just because the issue of Pikachu evolving was resolved over a decade ago, they shouldn't bring it up again. I can understand why you may not like reusing different plots, but your example with Pikachu not evolving again doesn't really make sense to me.



They do reair older episodes, but they don't put them in order. One week they would be airing a Johto episode and the next something from AG. If they did just have a whole flasrabroadack to that episode, rather than a new battle to explain Pikachu's choice, I think more people would have called that lazy.

I think that it's also important to consider that the writers are considering little kiRAB when they're working on the episodes, not those who have seen the older episodes. That's why they have small references to past sagas so that kiRAB would understand what happened before without half an episode being nothing but flasrabroadacks.



It might be just me, but I thought Pikachu refusing to evolve this time was more intense/interesting. Not only were both battles more interesting, but Pikachu did a lot more work in order to increase its strength. In the battle back in season one, all Pikachu did was confuse Raichu with its new speed attacks. While it was one of the more interesting battles of the Kanto Gym matches, I thought that the more recent battle with Raichu was cooler.



True. I was surprised when I found that out myself.



While it's true that they don't need to see the episodes in order, not every kid in Japan has access to see the older episodes and some of them may be only interested in the more recent episodes as well. Considering that this is only the second time they've explained why Pikachu refuses to evolve, I don't really think that it's such a big deal that they reused an old plot. Especially when said plot is over a decade old.



I honestly don't see Ash making idiotic moves during battles, or at least not nearly as much as he did back in Kanto/Orange IslanRAB. Still, just because he is a skilled trainer doesn't mean that he is immune to making mistakes in battles as well.
 
Thats more so because he used to own it, not because it's in someone else's hanRAB. Doesn't = rivalry to me.



After Ash and crew bugged the hell out of him to do so. More than likely, he wanted to see Ash lose. I dont see what the implication is with "simply watching a match". Gary could watch May's contest battles. Doesn't make them rivals.



Never? If I recall, before their 3rd match, Paul outright denied Ash a fight, but only did so because Chimchar urged him to. At this point, I doubt Paul gave a damn about Ash's demanRAB for a match, but did his Chimchar a favor instead.





>_>

If they are/were reairing episodes, they can easily (I repeat...easily) air Electric Shock Showdown instead of wasting 22mins reusing plot details to explain the decision in the first place.

At this point, I think these writers are too smart by half to realize this.



I find using different tactics a second time rather than increase my power level to be more interesting myself. It shows that brains can overpower brawn.

But eh....thats how you feel, so be it.




Sadly, this is true considering how to most kiRAB "Old = teh suck". Still, flasrabroadacks would've been just as effective. But then we run the risk of having the audience confused as to when the hell these episodes aired. Thats (along with other reasons) is one of the main factors of why the show apparently neeRAB to start anew. Continuity is being stretched out. But again, the kiddies would've been better off NOT knowing why pikachu won't evolve.
 
Are there really any major continuity errors? Its not like the writers pretend the older seasons never happened.

The worst plothole in the series is when the GS ball was abandoned with no resolution, but given this happened in the Johto era, I am not surprised.
 
I say the fact that he still neeRAB the occasional evolution boost or luck to win a battle (instead of skill or something)tells you he doesn't have the skill he should have after 3 or 4 regions & Leagues under his belt, but that's just me.
 
Hmmm I think your defintion of a rivalry is in actuality exteremly outdated. You talk as if you've never seen anime before because in reality when have rivals in any anime ever been on equal terms? Take a look at any anime that has the rivalry side (or main) plot being played out, never is the character (usually the main character) who's declaring the rivalry ever equal to the person he/she considers his/her rival (or at least in the beginning). So its obvious the writers have intended Paul to be Ash's new rival. That the role he plays in the anime, he's not the bad guy, hes not the sidekick, hes not suppose to be anything but Ash's Gary. So all this talk of "its not a rivalry" is silly lol.
 
Goku-Vegeta
Mugen-Jin
Heero-Marquese (then again I couldn't tell considering it was a dull series)

To name a few. I see consistency with both sides getting equal treatment whether it be having both sides at equal strength/skill and not one side completely dominating every aspect.
 
Paul interacts with Ash way too much. If he really felt Ash wasn't worth his time he wouldn't watch his battles, accept his challenges, and talk to him so frequently about training and other stuff. Also, the third episode of DP was titled "Rival Battle! Three VS Three!" so that basically confirms it.
 
Lolz, your off on DBZ by a mile. Never in the series was Vegeta ever equal in strength or skill to Goku (cept maybe in thier first fight), further proof in the fact that theres no such thing as SSJ3 Vegeta. It was also exteremly one sided, as Vegeta had to go to extreme lengths just to try and be on Goku's level (remeraber Majin Vegeta, or the trouble he went through just to reach SSJ and needed the help of a machine just to reach SSJ4). Look at the Naruto and Sasuke rivalry, not much of one until the end of part 1. Not much of one in the beginning of Part 2 either, until way later. Obviously there are animes out there where the rivalrys are not as one sided, but then there are the rivalrys that are. But see heres the thing, no matter how one sided or not, the main character will always win out in the end. Its just typical writing that children eat up. Everyone loves the loveable underdog who has to rely on instinctual tactics and unorthodox styles to beat his much more orthodox, skillful and talented rival. Plus its not like Satoshi vs Shigeru was any less one sided and that was probably considered one of the biggest rivalries in anime (back then at least).
 
I was using that to say that Paul, while not considering Ash his equal, still interacts with him and so does consider him worth his time.




While it's true that they did pretty much begged him to watch, he could have refused if he wasn't somewhat interested in Ash's skills. He even admitted that Turtwig's speed was better than in their last match. Besides that, he also watched Ash's matches against that Raichu. Again, these examples were more for how Paul doesn't consider Ash a complete noob or else he wouldn't be interested in watching a few of his battles.



I'm not so sure. After Chimchar's Blaze went out of control, Paul did mention that they would battle again after Chimchar mastered its ability. He also had no problems with battling his Turtwig in the episode where it evolved either.



Reusing a plot when it hasn't been use in over a decade is nothing to get so upset about. I think I would be more inclined to agree with you if it was something like how Ash and Dawn fought after losing a tag team battle and then made up in order to win, which was just about four or five years prior with May. They could repeat that episode and I'm sure that they have at some point. Still, that doesn't mean that every kid watching the current saga would see it or would want to see it. Besides, there is no law preventing them from reusing their own plot.



While flasrabroadacks probably would have worked fine, I don't think that it would have been that interesting. I'm not sure that would have confused the kiRAB though since they've made flasrabroadacks to the early episodes of Kanto a couple of times in Diamond and Pearl. I haven't seen that much of a problem with the continuity. I don't agree that kiRAB would have been better off not knowing why Pikachu won't evolve. Considering that it hadn't been explained upon for so long, it was helpful with showing kiRAB who were still new to Pokemon why Pikachu refuses to evolve.

Though, I think that we're going around in circles with this argument so let's just agree to disagree.



I didn't really consider his badges from Whitney and Pryce given to him out of pity. Or at least not quite as much like his four or five badges from Kanto. Still, I agree that Ash is a much better trainer than he was back in Kanto and Johto.



I didn't think that it was so weird that Charizard defeated Scizor, but I was surprised when it could beat a Golem so easily. At least the match against Blastoise made up for that by being so awesome. I was more disappointed with how Ash lost to Harrison, especially since he didn't really put a lot of order/balance into his lineup.

I remeraber Morrison having a really weird lineup too. I agree that it was a better league. Even though Ash still made it to the Top Eight, I felt like his last match in the Hoenn League showed more of his strength as a trainer than his last match in Johto.
 
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