Why s60 and not s40?

I do stand corrected, since apparently it's also available in a goofy black variant (as these "fashionable" phones do come), but nonetheless, you're still looking at one s40 with wifi, and one s40 with a 3mp camera. N95, N93i, N93, and the N80 all have both.
 
Yeah those features are all integrated as standard in Series 40 3rd edition phones. And they work, and they work very fast. I think this was the main complaint made against series 60. It's basic functions, as described, are slower than on a series 40 device, when in fact you'd think as a more advanced phone, they should be faster, and work flawlessly. Sadly, this isn't the case, so as a basic phone, S40 can meet and even exceed S60 devices. Obviously, S40 loses out when it comes to web-browsing, installing additional software etc.
 
That's all I'm sayin'. s40 is solid for making calls, sending text messages, using some ringtones, and some other basic things, but email, web browsing, document editing, movies, games, or multitasking? s60.
 
I'll agree to that, however, I still don't think the lack of speed on s60 is enough to make me really want an s40 to replace an s60 device. I've given thought to a 6133 as a backup phone, but certainly not to replace my N73.

I can't even think of a good analogy, but I would think it is to be expected of a more powerful phone to perform a bit slower than a less powerful phone as a whole. I'm trying to find a page that lists the processor speeds of s40 phones similar to the charts for s60, but I can't find one. I have a feeling that a lot of s40 phones are clocked at similar smartphone speeds with half the functionality of s60, which would explain s60 performing slower than s40 overall. Just a hunch though.
 
I know I am posting in an s60 forum so I am going to continue to get flak. I myself have been using a 7610 and now e50. I remember my 7610 did not save the t9 dictionary and was a bit glitchy. I had to take it to the Nokia service centre and get the firmware flashed. I also remember telling them that when my 7610 was manufactured in October, why did it have a February firmware when there were two or three updates in that period, to which they could only shrug. It was then more stable, but still quite slow as compared to any s40 phone out there.

The e50 has the following problems:
1. Very slow contacts. (It does not help that I have a huge database - which is one of the main reasons I am still with s60). Opening contacts is fast enough. But any search or opening a contact for editing takes 3-5 seconds. There was some lag on the 7610, but certainly not as much. I suspect it is the voice tag issue. It does not make any difference if the contacts is already open or I open it afresh.
2. Speakerphone crash bug - if you take a call the minute it rings, sometimes it switches to speakerphone on pressing the call key to take the call and then only removal of the battery is required.
3. Heating up of the earpiece after about 5 minutes of call.
4. As I said earlier, memory card glitches. I have to go to tools>memory>remove and ok (not necessary to remove the card) before trying to run anything installed on the card. I have formatted the card in a card reader, on the phone but makes no difference.
5. Font size is generally ok for most of the use, but otherwise too small. And there is no way of adjusting it.

After the latest firmware update, the cracking/popping noises have gone and earpiece heating up has reduced. Speed has also improved.

It is very difficult to reproduce #2. For #4, they will tell me to buy a Nokia branded card for 3 times the normal price. For the rest, Nokia service centre is not going to do anything. And I should never have all these issues at all in the first place. An average user would long time ago flung the phone out the window.

Nokia is simply not trying to improve s60 to the extent it should have in last 4 - 5 years. Look at the huge number of posts on problems that n73 and n80 users faced and these are supposed to be high end phones.

The point I am trying to make here is that the differences between s40 and s60 as far as 90% of phone as a phone features go are minimal and in fact have moved in favour of s40 today. And that is partly why Apple feels a new UI in its iPhone would be in demand.



On a phone? Get a notebook instead. The danger is that when you try doing all that on your phone, with the current state of h'ware/s'ware tech., I am quite sure that it will crash just when you really need to make/receive a call or things slow down so much that it is practically unusable. On my e50, with music player running, trying to open contacts or log, is just too laggy. That speakerphone crash bug can prove extremely embarrassing, let me tell you and is simply not to be expected on a Nokia E series phone.
 
Sandeep, I have the same problem as you on 1) Speed. But your the next three ones, I have not experienced at all - on two E50's.

I think you really should concede you have a bad one. You're not the only one. But many people have E50 and dont have this problem. Nor on N70 for examle So it would be unfair to charachterise these as problems of S60.

Problem 1 is probably the only one that is a platform issue and I supect it may also have to do with compression of data. It is present when you try to edit Notes application as well.

5) The font is a matter of taste - and sharpness of eyes. It was a bit odd to adjust to, but now 2-3 months later it really isnt an problem or something i notice when I use the phone. Its not really much possible to escape scaling the font down on a smartphone with 2" screen.

I had the same step-down issues when I went from I-mate Jam (2.8" screen) to M600i (2.4" screen). but I got over it.
 
Ya, possible I got a somewhat bad one. But unfortunately, there is nothing much I can do about it. Going to any Nokia service centre is an absolute pain. And they are going to ruin the finish and stuff. I would rather just sort of put up with it in the hope that the next firmware update will resolve some of the issues.

But I would seriously consider whether my next phone will be a s60 or an s40. While the n95 seems ideally what I (and certainly JonnyBruha) may want, the problem is that it is an mp3 player and camera first rather than a phone. I have an excellent camera and would never use a cellphone one (except in an emergency) and can never hear music with earbuds.

Where Nokia is going with this trend of everybody being stuffed with earbuds and clicking away, god only can tell. The next generation will certainly be deaf by the time they are 30 and if they continue with smaller fonts, will all also need multiple times laser corrected vision.
 
The problem I keep having with your posts is that you're basing your entire experience with s60 as a whole on your problematic 7610 and E50. A lot of users don't have anything like the problems your experiencing, with the phones you use or not. Since you went through your list of problems again, I will go through them too.

1. I'm curious as to how many contacts you have? It also helps a LOT if you leave your contacts open instead of closing it when you're done. My N73 accesses my contacts instantly, and running through them to edit them was just as fast on a quick test I just did. Then again, I only have 130-150 contacts or so.

2. This problem seems to be consistent with only the E50 and your specific firmware. I don't know anything like a phone freezing entirely and reverting to speakerphone as soon as a call is connected. You said it was also difficult to reproduce, so how often does it happen?

3. I've never heard of something like this either, unless you're on a call for over 3 hours.

4. First of all, you can press the power key and scroll to "Remove memory card" if you need to do so, which is much faster than going through folders. Second of all, it's not necessary to get a memory card directly from Nokia either. There are cheap brands out there that cause a reduction in phone speed, errors, and glitches. What brand are you using? I'm currently using a 2gb MiniSD from SanDisk, and I haven't had any problems with it whatsoever. It's fast and reliable as the day I bought it.

5. The N73 (and others) has a 240x320 resolution screen, which also happens to have a larger font size than screens with 352x416 resolution. Fortunate for you and anyone else with bad eyes, Nokia has dropped the 352x416 resolution for all of their upcoming models and has no plan to use it again. It's QVGA and VGA (hopefully soon) from here on out.

I really really like the 6133. I love how fast it is and I really like the overall look of the phone. I would use it in a hearbeat, but I would lose WAY too many features from s60 to ever be able to give it a try. I would have a much lower quality camera, I would be limited to Opera Mini (which is lame), I wouldn't be able to retrieve my emails on it because of the low internal memory, the battery wouldn't last me nearly as long, and I wouldn't be able to open and edit Office documents on it, much less listen to music while I do it. And yes, if I'm away from my computer, I can access and perform all of the tasks I mention without the need for a laptop on my N73. You should venture outside of the E50, specifically the one you own right now. It seems to hate you.
 
That makes even more sense to me. A 6133 is going to be programmed to do exactly what its built to do, with little room for expansion from java apps or anything else. An N73 on the other hand, is going to be built with those possibilities of expansion, and therefor, all of the phones resources won't be centered on what's already built into the device. That sounds like an answer to me.
 
How many more phones do you want me to go through?
1. About 900. The contacts app ran quite fine on the 7610 and yes, it was faster when open on it, but on the e50 it does not make any difference. On a Palm, it does not matter. I could have 9 or 9,000, the Palm contacts app was almost instant. On my Palm, the database used 140Kb, on the 7610/e50 it uses 700Kb.
2. http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=swupdate&message.id=6504

3. Well, I never at least on any gsm phone, but it does on my e50. It is a bit less now after the firmware update as I said.

4. The power button itself is a problem on the e50, no feel, you tend to switch it off. I have a memory card of 'Yes' make maybe it is a problem but a couple of months ago, this was the only one available. I will try a Sandisk and see.

I should have done more research and most importantly waited at least 1 year before buying any s60 phone. While s40, I think I can buy after 6 months.

If you really need to do all that, of course you need a s60 phone. I do not need to do that 90% of the time. I just need a phone with contacts, calendar/basic PIM, sms, but during that 90% I have to put up with e50/s60 lagging and glitches which is sort of a turn off, especially seeing how s40 has improved. I used to kid a friend who had an O2 who kept fiddling with his stylus and rebooting his phone and suddenly I realised I am much in the same boat now.

I was contemplating the n73 at the time, even though almost double the price of the e50 and am glad I didn't. I would have felt twice as worse, having more glitches and spending twice the money! When the n95 comes out and Nokia again drops prices of N series across the board, I will still wait six more months, if I do still feel inclined towards s60 and go for n73/n80 or similar, rather than n95/n76...
 
You've only gone through two phones! I went through 5 over this past summer alone! I'm as picky as they come, but there's a reason I stuck with my N73 and s60: I haven't seen anything that does as much or performs as well.

You were using a brand called "Yes"? I've never heard of that in my life. I am almost positive that is the source of your memory card problems. I expected something like a faulty Kingston or Topram, but "Yes"?

I have a feeling that if you try to load your 900 contacts onto an s40, you're going to be in an even worse situation than you are now. That's just a hunch though.

Why do you think you would've run into more glitches with the N73? Granted, it had glitches when it came out (in July 06), but I think it's at a safe point for firmware now. I'm even running less than the most current version (due to iunlock.com) and it runs very smoothly.

We're supposed to be arguing about s60 vs s40 and this has turned into an "I hate s60 because of my faulty E50" thread. You even said that the 7610 worked well with your contacts. What s40 phones did you have in mind that you might think could handle 900 contacts well?
 
I can confirm this particular problem he mentioned. I have 500 contacts.

As you said, opening the prog is fine after the first time. But there is a huge lag when you go to edit any one of them. Seem to me the thing is lagging when going from a view mode to decompressing the data.

I had a similar thing on the M600i (UIQ3 is the same OS underneath, basically) with it taking forever to decompress text in calendar and Notes.




Sandeep, you are offically the first legit iPhone buyer.Problem will be the price. Maybe wait for iPhone nano, coming out in Nov 2008?
 
In addition one also has stereo mp3 music, camera, video, e-mail, expandable memory, browser (maybe not so good as the current s60v3 one) and one can install/use java applets. And as stated, they work very fast. Also as per a reviewer of an e50 at mobile-review, 6233 sells 30 times more the comparable e50 s60.

If I had done a bit of research and sought opinions, instead of blindly trying to upgrade s60 to s60, I might have been much happier with a 6233, after the initial contacts transfer (Nokia even has an app now to facilitate contacts transfer across platforms) was done.
 
Ditto. The other thing is that the S40 phones have Timed Profiles which I use every day, but of course everyone has different needs.

I'm very interested to see how the N95 performs when it's finally released, but the main difference for me between S60 and S40, given the features that I use most, has always been the GUI speed.

.
 
What s40 phones is everyone using that gives them such a fast GUI and what s60 phones is everyone using to compare to say that s60 is slower? Granted, I will admit first and foremost that s60 is certainly slower than s40, but you guys are making it sounds like it's night and day differences. I urge anyone to pick up a 6630 or an N73, depending on which version of s60 you're comfortable with. Even better, an N93, since the speed on that beast is simply incredible. Since the N95 is supposed to have the same processor as the N93 (if not better), then I don't see a reason why the N95 would be as slow as other s60 phones at all.

The only thing I will concede that s40 certainly has over s60 is the timed profiles since there is no solution for it on s60. Papyrus used to have a feature for this, but I found out it was on such an early release and it didn't even work.

I don't think it's fair to say that s40 is better overall at handling such heavy usage than an s60, particularly since these arguments are coming from people with 500+ contacts with no use for any office editing or major email support. If you're still just using your phone for calls and texts, with some 1.3mp resolution images and minor web browsing with Opera Mini, then by all means, s40 is better for you. And there most certainly are faster s60's out there than the models you have used. Where are my N73 people backing up what I'm saying about its speed? I know they're here!
 
Then it looks like your next phone will be an s40. But so we're clear, I want to sum up the final points to this thread.

s40 is phone first, then features, so a user can expect all functions to work quickly and properly.

s60 is media device (mainly the N-series) or business device first, phone second, so a user can expect some form of slower menus vs an s40 phone.

There are specific differences that keep s60 in its own class as a smartphone, though an s40 does not deserve to be called a "dumbphone" since it has such a larger feature set than ever before.

And, your E50 is a lemon.

I still don't ever think I'd hear an argument out of someone that they would never pick up an s60 specifically because of its lag. I would understand someone saying they wouldn't pick up an E50 because of its lag, especially after reading this thread, but not s60 as a whole, represented by one device.
 
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