Why s60 and not s40?

I

IHateJewelry

New member
While I have been on the s60 platform since quite some time, recently I noticed that Nokia has considerably enhanced the s40 series as well. It has improved the phonebook, better calendar with call reminder, timed profiles, animated icons, way way faster speed, music player, browser, BT, IR and ability to use java programs.

Looking at a phone as a phone why would I want to continue with s60? Some of the reasons:
1. Still better phonebook with flexible fields and ability to search on last name.
2. Themes.

I could not seem to somehow think of anything else. I am not talking about other software, that is obvious.

This is because I recommended an s60 phone to a friend and he simply says it is too slow and changed it for a 6233, with which he is very happy.
 
The software IS the dividing reason! s40 can't use Symella, SmartMovie, Profimail, OfficeSuite, or Podcasting apps. That, and Nokia hasn't released any 3.2mp cameras on their s40 platform. Or any models with wifi. What phone did you recommend which he complained was too slow?
 
I had the same dilemma...S60 has improved speed lately but it still has a long way to go before it can have S40 kind of speed....my new E61 is much faster than my old 6670 but still not as fast as 6233.....In the end, S60's vast software pool won me over to stay with S60...I was just about to buy 6233 when I got a good deal on E61 and its Wi-Fi coupled with S60 made me stay in the family

Another thing is the multi-tasking...I think even in 6233 you can't play music and do other things (search your contacts/ or SMS) TOGETHER...(I might be wrong so wait for others to comment)
 
Wirelessly posted (Series 60: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.1; U; en-us) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

Not to mention multitasking.

-olly
 
If the software were not so prone to glitches, hangs and reboots, all of which take ages to restore, I would tend to agree. But even with the new firmware update to my e50, there are still a few hassles:
1. The memory card access is very glitchy. Almost everytime before I run an app I must reset the memory card.
2. The contacts app is simply too slow.
3. There is no easy way to recover from a crash - caused by the speakerphone bug or any other software, even the power key does not work. The only option is battery removal.
4. Many java apps do not work.
5. It is extremely irritating to find the apps being left open - consuming memory and battery - instead of the OS closing them, e.g. after calling the contact from contacts / log app., it is left open and will not close unless I keep depressed the menu button (or open it again) and then close it.

Granted, maybe the issue is of poorly coded software, but often this happens with Nokias own software/games.

I do not recall my wife's s40 phone ever being reset/switched on/off since months on end now, while I often have to do this at least once every two days. I can avoid this by not running any apps, but then the whole difference is the software!

Using the 6233 is real nice and extremely fast, everything is almost instant there, while I have to wait for that second or two to get anything done on my e50 (which BTW is supposed to be a fast phone with lots of memory). Yes, I can do more on my e50, but for 90% of the use which is the same, the e50 is molasses slow as compared to the 6233.
 
Based on your experience, it sounds like you found a really bad firmware. I haven't experienced any of the problems you describe on my N73. I can't remember the last time it rebooted, though I know it has at least once or twice, my memory card is solid and quick to access, contacts opens in about a second and much faster even if I leave it running, my N73 doesn't have to recover from these crashes you speak of, and I haven't run into any java apps that didn't work.

Maybe you should try out a different s60? Or you can find a nice s40 if you don't need any of the software on s60?
 
You are quite right. And the above underlined for S40 is actually better than what you get in S60, which for me is unacceptable given the price and speed penalty you pay to have an S60.

Also the browser and java ability of S60 means you can run a lot of practical programs, not just games: eg a huge variety langauge dictionaries, plus even the odd map program such as the London Tube mab by Alebic. With the browser, you can run Map24 mobile maps (highly recommended) or Google maps and you have worldwide maps, albeit at the cost of data charges. That is quite powerful.

The main barrier for me with S40 is that I use everything in my Outlook heavily and my phone must sync it, including Notes, tasksand all fields of contacts. But for many people who just need calendar and Notes, Google + Goosync ( http://www.goosync.com/SupportedDevices.aspx ) could more than be enough to cover all your calendar and contact syncing needs on an S40



I think you must have a bad one Sandeep. I have heard a lot of these kind of problems, but I think it is an issue of poor quality control rather than firmware.

I am actually on my 2nd E50 (first was silver/black with previous firmware, 2nd is metal black with latest firmware).
- I have never had the problem you have of needing to reset memory card. First with a 1GB card size and now 2GB.
- I have had exactly one reset/freeze with each phone in that entire time, which is actually the best I can say for any smartphone I have owned to date. That record puts my M600i to shame, to be honest - wheh I got the M600i it was a question of how many times did it freeze each day. My I-mate jam was not much better.

You can get far better performance out of the E50. And the one you have sounds like it is more trouble than it is worth. I would recomend to sell off the E50 you have and get another one or just insist that Nokia honours the warranty and gives you one that works correctly.
 
Series 40 phones do support themes. I've got a huge collection of them on my 6233. http://gallery.mobile9.com/c/nokia-6233-themes/1/



The 7390 is a series 40 phone with 3mp auto-focus camera. http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_7390-1691.php



The 6136 is a series 40 phone and has wifi. http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6136-1435.php
 
I'm not going to argue that s60 is overall faster than s40 by any means, but to say that it's so slow that it's unusable is a completely different story. The processor also isn't the only contributing factor to determine a device's speed. The firmware on the device as well as the hardware configuration also have a large impact on how well a device performs, since that same processor will be clocked differently for the demands of differing devices. If sandeep were to run a benchmark test with his E50 versus my N73 or anyone elses, I'm sure the N73 would come out with the better scores.

We seem to be dancing on the same issue over and over again. The original discussion is, I guess why s60 is better than s40. If we want to go back to that, I believe my original points weigh heavily for s60's favor, but I don't think any argument over mobile phones should be a pissing contest. It all depends on your needs. No device is better or worse, it all just depends on what the user needs. If I were sandeep, I would've ditched the E50 as soon as I experienced problems with slow contacts and sprung for something else. s60 can't be help responsible on the whole for a firmware on the E50 that can't handle almost 1000 contacts, nor for any lack of speed due to a completely off brand memory card.
 
Although S40 3rd edition is improved a lot and looks pretty good its hard to find benefits in comparison with powerful smart platform likeS60 is, nothing beside the faster boot up and faster UI but it is expectable from one dummy UI that hasn?t smart OS in the background.

From other hand I have no enough time ATM to count all downsides of the dummy concept. As the Michael said, the main disadvantage is the lack of the multitasking, dedicated editing keys and features, ability to install powerful 3rd party application that can brings all missing features and extend phones capabilities, S40 support only java that sucks a lot because it isn?t as powerful as Symbian application and last but not the least it has very limited access to the system resources.

Apart from the software, hardware is also inferior, completely inferior, due the simple UI that doesn?t requires powerful hardware such a phones have slow processor and very little amount of the RAM while the latest S60 phone features two processors, one for cell while the other, faster one is reserved for smartphone features and of course some of the latest s60 phones have even 3d hardware accelerated graphic.

Hope it helps,

Cheers,
teo
 
Of course it depends on one's needs. I am not disputing that. I am also not disputing the fact that s60 is more a mini computer and allows you to put in all sorts of apps. I am also not saying that it is unusable. It is just that it is irritatingly slow and at times glitchy for normal phone functions, which at the least after so many years of evolution it should not be.

I should not need to update the firmware (with all its hassles / chance of bricking the phone) for popping noises during voice calls or for speakerphone crash bug or maybe later for contacts. This should be rock solid from day one. Yes, if I then find that some of the computer features I want to use need firmware updates, yes I can opt for it if I choose.

My original point is simply for use as a phone most/all of the time, the differences between s40 and s60 have today narrowed considerably to the point where now I feel that actually s40 is better. And Nokia is not improving either the software or the hardware to make s60 at least somewhat closer to s40 for basic phone apps. in terms of features or speed.
 
I was thinking along the same lines. My back-up phone is a w710 and I have grown to love how simple it is to use and how it just "works".

...also, and maybe it's just me, but, sometimes I would like to have a slightly less complicated device. It seems that all too often, there are software glitches and issues with our S60 phones that we all have grown to "deal" with. It would be nice if Nokia put more of the features of their N and E series devices into their S40 phones.
 
What do you want Nokia to do? They pack every feature you could ever want in a variety of combinations into a bunch of different smartphones, and you're disappointed that there's a little lag time when you try to open your contacts? It's understood that YOU'RE E50 takes considerably longer to open YOUR contacts, but this doesn't reflect the majority of s60 users, so it is still only a little lag time for the rest of us. On the N93, I wouldn't even call it lag at all. It's about as instant as something you'd find on s40.

The early firmware issues of the N73 for any of its minor early bugs can't be brought into question. None of the issues prevented any of the apps from working and were more minor annoyances than anything else. s40 isn't without bugs and firmware updates as well. Updating the firmware also isn't nearly as big of a risk as it has been hailed. Worse case scenario, should you brick your phone, your carrier should be able to fix or replace it for you. Bought it through eBay? There's no one to blame but yourself in the first place. But that's a whole different discussion about the policies of importing phones and what not. The point is that the people bricking their firmware are already using handsets that aren't under warranty in the first place, and ultimately taking a much larger risk when buying an imported phone and attempting to update its firmware. Nokia isn't guaranteeing that your N73 won't have popping noise during a call, because you didn't buy it from Nokia; you bought it from an online retailer, voiding your warranty.

Let me try to grasp this properly; you're using speed as the determining factor to decide which UI handles basic phone (specifically phone) funtions properly? What about the additional options in s60 versus s40 while you're on a phone call? Does s40 offer the conference calling options as easily as s60? Can you begin new calls while currently on one, switch, end one call, end both calls, combine both calls, drop which you'd like from the conference, or access all of your menu functions while still on that same call? What about the integration with all the other basic apps? If a friend texts you someone's number, can you call that number right from the body of the text message? Can you as easily manage and update your contacts directly from the log? All of these calling features have been standard on s60 for a long time now, with minor additions over time. If you can confirm ALL of these features on an s40 device, then you'd really spike my interest.

Please forgive me if I'm coming off harsh, because I'm really not trying to. I have no intentions to offend, whatsoever. I'm really into this argument and what to keep it as respectable as possible.
 
In series 40, if you get an SMS with someones number in it, you can select 'Use detail' from the Options menu. You then select which number you want (as it'll also show you the number of the sender of the SMS) and you can either save or call that number right from the options menu. So yes, you can call the number right from the body of the text message.

Not 100% sure about the log option, but any number that's in your call log you can add to your address book, send it a text, voice call it, video call it, edit it, delete it etc. etc.

While on a call with someone, in the options menu you can choose to:

Hold
Mute
Switch to Video Call
Video Sharing
Contacts
New Call
Menu
Lock Keypad
Record
End Call
Send DTMF
Loudspeaker

If you select New Call, you can call another number while still being connected to the first person you've called. Once the 2nd number has answered, you get the extra options to swap or conference. When you select swap, it switches between the 2 callers you have on the line. When you select conference, it's obviously a conference call with all 3 users active (although my account doesn't support this). When you press the red key, it hangs up on whoever is currently the active caller. You press the red key again to hang up on the 2nd person you called. I'm guessing if you're in a conference call, pressing the red key once hangs up on everyone in the conference call.
 
They don't. The 6136 isn't out yet and the 7390 is pink. How many self-respecting HoFo members are going to get a pink phone because they love s40 so much and really want a 3mp camera?

If you go down s60's list, wifi enabled phones include N95, N93, N93i, N80, N92, E70, E70-2, E61, E60, and the N91, which have all but 2 been released.

For 3.2mp cameras, N95, N93i, N93, N73, and the N80.

My point still stands. There are very little to no options for higher end features on s40.
 
Trust me, as an ex Windows Mobile owner, Nokia is far ahead of all smartphones on basic phone usage and stability of initial release firmware.

Even compared to my M600i, which was a nightmare on initial release and crashed 4 times a day, my E50 is far ahead.

But the points you make are valid overall and to a certain extent to Nokia and the E50 as well - and this is where Apple is coming from when they decided that they can make money in this sector.

The mobile phone indsustry has not done right by customers when it comes to smartphones - they are still too much of a pain in the azz for most mainstream users. Even power users only tolerate it because of the capabiities of the phone - and their own needs.

I am not entirely kidding when I say that you are a prime candidate for an iphone.
 
Here's the catch with the iPhone in regards to basic phone functions: No sync with Outlook. It also doesn't have voice dialing, speed dialing (with what buttons?), and no Bluetooth sync to a PC (or Mac, appropriately). So while we're throwing around terms like "better" and "ease of use" and "speed", these are all very important things to remember.

If s40 has all of these features that I mentioned standard now in the UI, then I truly am impressed. I'm honestly losing sight of what we're arguing over now though.
 
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