Why no (American) animated dramas?

I'll be the voice of disagrement here I suppouse. I'll say that I personally am not opposed to the idea of animated drama. The Japanesse do them, why can't we? There are things that have to do with lighting, and color that could make things very dramatic but could never be done in live action.
 
Some stuff is easier in animation then in live action. In animation you can have a computer randomize movement of background characters (you can get away with very low detial with very simple/repeditive animation for the extras while still making it look good if the focus is on the foreground). With live actors you have to pay for each extra thus if done right you can have a city full of people under animation where with live action you wouldn't be able to put as many extras on screen due to budget.

With animaiton you can have far better looking locals for cheaper then building them on a set going on location. You also have far more freedom with camera movement you can do shots that would be very expensive in live action.

Thus in animation you can have a shot looking at a character sitting by a window on a train going 300kpm/h from the pov of another character sitting next to them with the background outside the window as layers that the computer can move at different speeds past the window and add movement random movement on the y-axis (up and down) and Z-axis(towards and away from the window), even the angle of different layers to give a sence of the train rocking and animators can fine tune to complete the look. A director of live action does not have the same control over the shot.
 
Not only that, Western animators throughout history have put a lot of work defining body language & facial gestures in animation. Why not apply the techniques used to bring out emotions in Disney animation & stuff and translate them to the drama genre?
 
Cartoons shouldn't be taken completely seriously in my humble opinion.

They were specifically designed to be an exaggeration of life's foibles. You'll sometimes get the ones that have a socially conscious theme running through it like Fat Albert did in the 70's but not all animated fare should not adhere to that philosophy.
 
Dramas appeal to girls. Animation does not appeal to girls, atleast as much as live action. If you are going to make a cartoon about real life and real life situations, it would make more sense to use real people. Making a cartoon about real life is about kinda takes out the point of cartoons. Cartoons are suppose to be about fantasies, not real things. Just some points I wanted to bring up.
 
Yes anime, I don't watch any of that stuff, ignoring the anime character on my avatar. Now serious this is about AMERICAN ANIMATION. Name one decent American Animation that appeals to girls mainly. I am just going on statistics, but girls tend to watch Nick alot more the CN, mainly because of Nick's focus on live-action for the teen and somewhat tween demographic. CN does not have an decent drama. Gundam SEED was the closest thing to a drama, even with sex, and love triangles and all that stuff, but it got sent into the corner to die because it failed miserably.


I hope you weren't suggesting that King of the Hill was a drama. Because it is obviously a parody of redneck America, and thus a comedy.
 
True, the school dramas are fairly common. I skipped over them in my thinking because I was looking towards more traditional/western dramas (not that the states doesn't play with school drama in Live Action, it's just usually more soap opera here.) Also, I'd argue that Maria-sama isn't straight drama; it's a bishoujo show (between time slot and the demographic its fan are in Japan, only the otaku males are watching for the most part) that happens to be a drama with shoujo-ai undertones. The Memories Off OVAs, or Sentimental Journey, though they've got romance elements, strike me as closer to straight drama. Granted, something that's drama might arguable be impossible.

Usually the best drama involves either an external or internal conflict, which means you're in for a certain amount of either romantic or psychological (aka Mindscrew/Philosophy) interplay no matter what. Koi Kaze has a both psychological and romantic conflicts. Haibane has psychological conflicts. Windy Tales is definitely has psychological aspects. Sentimental Journey, Maria-Sama and Memories Off all have atleast some romantic element. Theirfore, it might not even be fair to exclude stuff with sci-fi and fantasy elements from the drama realm anyway. It really might be more of an issue of form and composition, rather than content.

hmmm... Definitely something for me to think on atleast.



Yeah, animation must really not appeal to girls, what with women, namely teenage girls, being the main consumers of manga, and what with Fruits Basket, a girls' comic topping the Bookscan charts for graphical novels in America for the past year now.

Animation, by the nature of being sequential art, has the capability, even when depicting real-life situations, of being more expressive than reality because you can completely control all aspects of the performance and the enviroment, as Satoshi Kon, a venerable anime director, commented on in the bonus material for his film, Tokyo Godfathers.

In fact, Tokyo Godfathers is a perfect case of a film that probably good have been done in live action, but by being done in animation, it had an extra level of beauty and symbolism. At points, it was more glorious than any reality, but you could believe it and accept it because it was animation, and at points, it was grittier and darker than real-life could ever depict without skepticism, but one could believe it because one can suspend their disbelief better with animation.

If nothing else, most of the otaku I know are girls. Many anime cons have become predominantly female in attendance. I knew a lot of girls in high school and jr. high, and many of them watched Daria, which though comedic, still had dramatic elements on an occasion, and it was undoubtedly something that could have been done in live action. Clearly, there is an audience among women and girls for animation of the dramatic type. As I've said, not a lot of it has been made in America, but not of lot people were targeting comics at girls either until Tokyopop owned book scan with girls' manga, virtually of all which has atleast some dramatic elements, if not outright Shakespearean tragedies and/or My So Called Life-style angst and issue oriented drama. Some where, some one will put two and two together given all that. Then we'll see dam break, and there will be flood of american dramatic animation.
 
I am going to ask you, if you respond to me please do it in an intelligent way.

Yeah simply brilliant, you try to make a point of how anime must appeals to girls, by using manga as proof. Woah, nice. O and Fruits Basket is number one for one very insignificant reason. Americans make more "comic books" than "graphic novels". Ofcourse there is no competition. For some reason Americans prefer the comic book format, giving manga pretty much its own category.


Haven't seen it, can't help ya there. But I would like to bring up one tiny insignificant point. IT IS AN ANIME. We are talking about AMERICAN ANIMATION. Bear in mind there is a MAJOR difference. So it might have done well in JAPAN. That's an entirely different country. Please we are talking about AMERICA and whether AMERICAN ANIMATED DRAMA would do well here. Perphaps a valid point you could use is to point out a successful drama anime in AMERICA and that would prove something, but you have done nothing so far.

Anime cons with primarily female attendace, yeah that's great. Tell me how does this prove that girls like drama? There are many kinds of anime, and the fact that more girls are attending proves nothing. For example I know many more guys who like anime than girls, but none of them care enough about anime to get their ass to an animecon. I doubt there are enough drama anime and manga fans to pay for a drama animation. Have you figured out why no American publishers are targeting girls? No money. It is much cheaper to license a foreign manga and then translate it. Remeber ToykoPop does not create manga. People have been scanlating manga for free for years, do you really think it is that expensive? Take a quick glance at amazon.com searching for "graphic novel". Per-page manga is much cheaper.
 
Just though I'd note that underground American comix publishers do target girls some are so totaly aimed at females that males are generally turned away by their content.
 
I am getting visions of the mafia making comics. Please elaborate, any links. But more seriously this proves my point no mainstream support. Gay manga existed for a long time, and I am sure someone make gay underground comics, but no major mainstream support.
 
Underground comix started when the US got that stupid Comics Code Authority and comic authors refused to be censored, ever since underground comixs and various levels of the goverment has been in court dozen of times over decency law vs freedom of speech.

If underground comix publishers did not have to waste resources defending their right to free speach they would be able to bring some of their more popular works to the mainstream. This is why even Europe has a more broad comic scene. I mean come on "Omaha the Cat Dancer" had "Adults Only" on its cover plus it called its self a novel (not a comic) with "this book is intended for adults only.Retailer are instructed not to sell this book to minors" on the back and the US goverment still used the "Comics are for just kids" line to try and classify it as contriband.

This would be the biggest problem I see with an Animated drama, is the US goverment will hound any US animation studio that tries to create a mature drama, with "cartoons are just for kids" to the point its easier to just get around it by going live action.
 
Or we could like Japan and have comics about lolicon, guro, and the ever popular tentacles! On a serious note the CCA seems to be like ESRB for comics, voluntary, but often done except by the hardcore hentai game producers. Especially now that Marvel seems to have left them. I'll be honest but thats what it took for comics to survive in that era, sad though it is.

From what I have researched briefly, seemed to have died out in 1976 to be replaced by alternative comics. Underground comics seem to be associate with pretty shady things, and sold in shady places, and feature sex, drugs, and other crap (Can't use real cuss words anymore) and seems to parallel the doujinshi in Japan. However alternative comics, whilst trying to appeal to niche markets seem to actually have some good stories at time without laying it too heavy on the adultish material. Correct me if I am wrong.

Now let's get back on topic. Can you state any really popular underground/alternative comic that are dramas, that might be popular enough to compete with mainstream comics, indicating a possible base for an adaption to support a animated drama?
 
I'm going to ask you not use caps.



Too bad comic books and manga have to work on the same sales chart then. Bookscan puts latest issues of American Comic Books up against the current manga releases. Meanwhile, American creators may be stuck in the comic book format (and that's changing what with Tokyopop, DC and Marvel hiring on American artists for the express purpose of making manga-format graphic novels,) but American readers are looking towards manga-format graphic novels as the format of choice. It is a matter of the taste of the American comic reader, and most American comic readers have been embracing drama in that format. Countless American newspapers and magazines have noticed this trend and done articles on it. Girls and their interest for dramatic content are saving the comic book industry. It would seem self-evident that maybe a cartoon targeted at that demographic would do well too.



I'll keep it simple. If Americans are willing to buy Japanese Animated Dramas, and they are, as evidenced by the solid sales of series like Fruits Basket and Haibane Renmei, and movies like Millenium Actress and Tokyo Godfathers, there is no reason they wouldn't buy an American or Korean or Indian or European or whatever Animated Drama if it was of same quality of production and story as a Japanese Animated Drama. If you animate it, they will come.



Ok, we'll drop the con stuff. I'll note that though that most Americans anime fans are already effectively taking the cost of Dramatic animated series on anyway, given that Geneon and ADV have been co-funding, if not outright funding animes from start to finish in Japan. Haibane Renmei was funded for the most part by Geneon USA, and they've made their money back off it and then some (same can be said of Paranoia Agent, another Geneon USA co-funding endeavor that's payed off well so far.) The money is there. Hell, ADV's started production on an original animated series, Mutineer's Moon, based off the David Weber (which is sci-fi drama/action, so maybe it's not a pure enough work for your tastes, but it's step forward, isn't it?) Imagine that: an animated series based of a Western source, funded entirely by a Western company, targetted at a Western audience. Strikes me that atleast some companies think they can make non-Japanese, non-European drama work and pay.

I've already covered earlier in the post that DC, Marvel and Tokyopop are cultivating domestic talent to make comics in the manga-format, and explictly to target girls interested in dramatic content. In fact, DC's already release the macabre-shoujo Death at Death's Door, and Tokyopop's already released Peach Fuzz, which is more cutesy-shoujo. The comic industry, as to expected, is at the forefront of trying tap that demand for dramatic content that until recently went unnoticed, but if it's successful, you can bet that'll be parlayed into more original programming on TV.

So, if the domestic projects in comic arena work (big if, though Death on Death's Door did respectably,) and the American anime industry continues the trend towards funding titles that play well in the states (at points better than they do in Japan,) then it could very well end up with WB turning a DC dramatic graphic novel property into an animated series and/or with Tokyopop taking one of there domestic dramatic projects getting it turned into an animated series in Japan or Korea. The seeds are already their in the co-funding and projects like Mutineer's Moon, and the demand is evident from the bookscan charts. All we need now, is someone, some company, with vision.
 
Underground comixs lasted a bit longer, the last great one being "Omaha the Dancing Cat" (once Kate Worley became writer that is) that ended in the mid 90's and started in '81 yet a reprinting plus new material is suppose to be out eventually. Omaha is a high water mark for the underground comixs as it had sex,drugs,violence,ect without distracting from the good story writting. You could call it an alternative comix now but since at the time it was the most banned work in the USA (and Reed Waller ended up a black list for being the creator and artist) it was classed as underground at the time.


Well Omaha the Cat Dancer but the sex and drugs were tied deeply into the story and while with serious rewriting to make it more tame could in theory work, Kate Worley the writter, died of cancer last year and without her writting skill Omaha would stink (Like when Reed Waller did his own writting for the comic) , of course a station like HBO could run Omaha as is but then it would have to end where the comix ends (I don't have a problem with that).

As for a more tame drama, I don't know but I'm wouldn't be the target audience.
 
So then we could see perhaps a low budget AS version of the comic book? Since the original writer is dead, it would have to be true to the comics. Or is it too hardcore for AS?
 
Well Reed Waller (creator & artist) is still alive but his stories were uhhh well not that great compaired the ones Kate Worley's wrote, this might be problem since Reed Waller did the first two issues (before Kate Worley became the writer) which would be the pilot if they ever tried.

As for too hardcore as I said it would be more HBO if your going to keep Omaha as is since it was an ADULT drama. Anyway there is a number of teen animated dramas like Braceface,6teen and as told by ginger
 
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