Where is the line between Pagan pride and Pagan proselytism?

C

Cosimo )O(

New member
From my reading, it seems pretty clear that adherence to Wicca or other Neopagan religions was pretty much generally a matter kept closely private. Yet here we are on the internet, admitting our Paganism to the world and demonstrating Pagan pride.

Where do you draw the line between self-expression and discretion? Just for example, would you agree with some Wiccan writers who have said that people who wear Pagan jewellery are fake or fluffy?

What is the difference between being "ready to answer those who ask" and plain proselytism?
I just want to make it clear that the TDs are not mine. Thanks for all your answers so far.
 
Merry Meet,

It is in the best interest of all to aid whenever and however fits the moment and location. Speaking openly to people, helping community resources like schools or colleges, even human resource departments for large corporation just makes good sense. It provides clarity, safety and ultimately legal protection under the laws of our country. Least case scenario people will no longer fear us or at least they will have to tolerate us, best case scenario someone looking has a better chance in finding a good leader, group as well as training. Again, it just makes good sense to share.

Thank you for your time in reading this post as well as others that I have posted. I wish all a blessed day.

Blessed Be

Nyjh
 
Fake & fluffy is an opinion, it's not proselytizing.

Proselytizing is telling others they should convert because our beliefs are better.

You are right-- our community is not immune to proselytizers. There are people who grew up in religions where it was common and had a hard time breaking the habit, or they have such inner anger towards proselytizers of other religions that they play the game.

What I see here, for the most part, are a lot of people who are A) eager to share info with those who are seeking it, clear up misconceptions, etc. or B) eager to debate religion (which I don't think is proselytizing given the purpose of the forums).

Proselytizing doesn't prevent you from talking about your religion with others.
 
I think that wearing large amounts of jewelery, just for the sake of showing it off or to draw attention to yourself is fluffy. Having a few pieces of jewelery that you occasionally wear and symbolizes your belief isn't. (If it was then every Christian I know that wears a cross would be fake too, right?)

Proselytism would be telling every single person you meet about your beliefs when they never asked, telling them it's the right thing for everyone to do, or trying to explain why you think belief A is way better than belief B or C.
Answering a few questions when asked is only informing people.

I admit that I had a case of the "fluffies" (telling all of my closest friends) when I first discovered Wicca but they've calmed down now and I keep it to myself.
 
The first is expressing yourself. The second is seeking others to join.

I commonly wear one pentagram. While it is in plain view, it is largely for my benefit, not for others. The fact that I am willing to wear it openly reflects the fact that I am out of the closet. I see no reason why that would make me fake or fluffy. (incidentally, I've never heard that before and am curious who said it)

However, there are people who wear pagan jewelry solely for other people to see. It means nothing to them other than "hi, I'm a Wiccan (or whatever). Got a problem with that?" That mentality is obnoxious. These people often wear very large jewelry or multiple pieces, so that they become a virtual advertisement board for their religion.

Being out of the closet does not mean I announce it to the world. My neighbors and co-workers currently do not know I'm Wiccan. However, should the matter naturally come up, I would not have any problem admitting such and answering questions if they are asked. I do not lecture. I do not throw it in people's faces. But I also do not actively hide it.
 
Giving informative answers to others' questions is not proselytising. Pagans don't proselytise. As others say, it's proselytising when you start talking regardless of whether people want to listen.
 
I would not agree that wearing Wiccan jewelry makes someone fluffly unless it's really obnoxious and tasteless jewelry, like the supersized pentacles on really long chains that some people wear. I don't think that there is a necessity for all Pagans to remain in the broom closet. Why should we have to? There is no need to bring up Paganism in every conversation, but there's no need to hide it either. For instance, working as a cashier, I wear my pentacle as openly as those who wear crucifixes, but I'm not going to tell my customers what it means. I've had questions about it, and I've answered them honestly, but that ends the conversation. They generally don't know what it means when I say that it's a symbol for Venus (and for me, that's the main reason I wear it), and most don't realize that I believe in and honor her. It doesn't matter to me whether they fully understand or not, and I don't push the issue. The difference between being ready to answer and proselytism is the difference between explaining your beliefs to the genuinely curious and actively seeking converts. When you proselytize, you try to push your religion onto others. You don't make it clear that your religion is your belief, and doesn't have to be accepted by anyone else. You generally start "selling" your religion to people who haven't asked. When you answer those who ask, you answer their questions directly without making it sound like a sales pitch, and only give as much info as that in which they are genuinely interested. You make it clear that though these are your beliefs, that they are entitled to whatever belief system that they have. You don't condemn, and you don't judge. You show tolerance.
Venus Bless
 
Neo-Pagan practices were kept private because in most places they were illegal and seen as an affront to the Christian Church. Publicizing one's connection to these practices could get one killed, or at the very least persecuted in some fashion.

Sadly this type of persecution still occurs today. In many parts of the world, admission of being a Witch or even the mere accusation of being a witch can still get a person killed, raped, maimed and jailed. There have been several occurrences of entire towns stoning or assaulting women in India who were accused of being witches. There are cases of murder in the Middle East. And even here in the US, those who publicly proclaim their pagan beliefs can be persecuted by ignorant bigots through custody battles, harassment at work, or even losing their job. One need only do a google search for news items that tell the story. So many still keep their practices in the broom closet only sharing their secret with those they trust.

For those of us who live out in the open, there maybe several reasons we do it. Some of us feel pride about our beliefs and chosen path. We are ready to answer questions, and use events of conflict as opportunities to educate and bring about tolerance and clarity of what we really are. Others may do it out of a sense of rebellion, or a need to be seen as different and part of some exclusive club. And others may do it because it's the latest fade or they want to be like a character they've seen on TV or in the movies in an effort to be more than what they think they are.

I don't think these reasons are any different than any other path, or any other expression of the self from the past. The same reasons for living out in the open can be said for the 'Hippy' era, or for the Gay and Lesbian community. The topics are different, but the expressions and reasons maybe the same. We all face potential persecution by ignorant bigots, yet we are all still proud of who and what we are.

Those that choose to live a path they don't understand (the fakes and playgans) will either be found out and identified as being wannabes, or they will lose interest and drop the act for the next new fad.

For my part I can say that I have faced ignorant bigotry in a work situation. But I gained more positive experience from that situation as most of my coworkers came to my defense and the offender was fired from the company which has a no tolerance policy relating to harassment of religion, race, gender and sexual orientation. But this and lesser conflicts have not caused me to feel I need to go back to the broom closet. Rather they have given me encouragement that those of us living publicly are making a difference and paving an open road for those who still feel uncomfortable.

Just my 2 cents and humble opinion.
 
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