What type of villains do you prefer?

Don't you know how dangerous it is to link to TV Tropes?:p

I the villain is well written, I like them. It's hard to say which class I like best. Some of my favorites:

Team Rocket - Definitley in the Harmless, Ineffectual category.

Zolf Kimblee - Complete Monster. Poor old man...

Bowser - Ineffectual.

Hopper - ...I really don't know. He's more of a bully than anything, but "Bully" just does'nt fit...
 
I think any of those can work as long as they aren't just one dimensional stereotypes. The whole "I'm evil because I'm bad" is kind of lazy writing, and most shows just treat the villain as just an antagonist for the protagonist. I like it when writers make the villain out to be human beings. Unfortunately, not many shows want to give their villains any kind of depth. I've only seen Xanatos from Gargoyles and Nerissa from WITCH do it.
 
What about the villains from BTAS?

Plus in real life, some people are evil because they are psychopaths, Jeffery Dahmer had a normal life, a normal family, wasn't abused and he still became a depraved serial killer.
 
Which ones? Mr. Freeze was alright in his first appearance, but every future reappearance his character took quite a hit. The last time he showed up he was pretty much all about "I feel pain, so everyone else must suffer" and went around destroying stuff because he felt bad. Quite a step down from his first appearance where you could say he was somewhat justified in his actions.

Sure, but there's plenty of people who aren't like that as well, but we rarely ever see that type. A show that showcases the main villain as being a fairly normal person who's capable of more emotions than just hatred/green, especially love and kindness, is a welcome addition.
 
Freeze did become a Anti Villain again in Batman beyond, I thought Two-Face was sympathetic in most of his appearances.

Plus there are villains in the new Spidey cartoon, like Electro, Captain Jupiter and Sandman who are somewhat sympathetic and Magento from X-Men TAS was always a grey villain.

There are lots of sympathetic villains in cartoons.




Actually in real life they are a lot psychopaths and sociopaths who don't feel anything beyond hate and anger or greed.

Card carrying villains don't exist in the real world, but complete monsters do, most serial killers, dictators and some gangsters and rebel groups are really evil people with almost no sympathetic qualities.
 
A sympathetic villain isn't really the same thing as a dynamic villain, though. For example, someone who cares for their friends and families (as opposed to all the villain who are so evil they hate their own families and betray their friends) fall in love, start a family and have children, and generally show more than one or two 'bad' emotions. Though Electro is only sympathetic in his first appearance, but all future appearances show he doesn't really care about being normal anymore and make him out to just be a generic crazy guy. Like Mr. Freeze, I found that a lot of these villains tend to get worse as the show goes on due to the writing faltering.

Every side in a conflict thinks their side is right and the other side is wrong.
 
But you will admit TAS Magneto is symapthetic.

That seems like a there is just a small difference between dynamic and sympathetic villain, in my mind if a character isn't a card carrying villain or obviously evil or a complete monster, they can sympathetic on some level, as long as they don't cross the Moral event horizon line.

Well there is motive decay: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MotiveDecay

Plus you aren't factoring in that these characters are criminally insane, like two-Face and Electro so they aren't in control of their actions, that in of itself is sympathetic. I think if a character is criminally insane that is sympathetic.

Plus I think you are forgetting about characters like prince Zuko who started off as an anti villain and was never just evil.



Yeah and that's irrelevant, no one thinks they are evil, but people do things that it would considered evil by any rational indivdual, if you are commiting genocide, you are an evil person, if you use rape as a weapon of war, you are an evil person. Just because people don't think they are evil, doesn't they aren't evil.
 
True, but most of the people who go around commiting these atrocities don't so while cackling manicaly and ranting about how the world will be theirs. I think what Marn is objecting to is the kind of Snidley Whiplash style of evil you see in a lot of eighties cartoon villians. There's the evil of a real life mass murderer like Osama Bin Laden and then you have the "evil" of Cobra Commander.
 
Yeah that's not really evil, that's just being goofy. Most 80s villains were card carrying villains, but ultimately harmless, they talked about being evil but didn't do anything evil, so these characters aren't very evil.

I mean let's compare 80s cartoon villains to more modern villains, 80s Shredder talked about being evil, but 2003 Shredder never said he was evil, but he did actual evil things, so 2003 shredder came off as more evil. 2003 Shredder had no real motive beyond being a psychopath, but he was more of real evil character then 80s Shredder.

Also compare 80s Cobra commander to resolute Cobra commander, 80s CC talks about being evil, but he never did anything evil, resolute CC never said he was evil but did do really evil things, 80s CC was a harmless villain and resolute CC was a complete monster.

In realm life no one acts like a card carrying villain, but some people do act like complete monsters, so villains who have no motive beyond being a psychopath aren't unrealistic.
 
I've always loved Card Carrying Villains. They're just so wonderful and gloating. "I'm EVIL!" Hee.

But, then, I tend to prefer idealistic shows, so that's why. I'm not a big fan of Chessmasters.
 
It's hard for me to decide what types of villains I like, so I'll just list my favorites and why.

Dag the Coyote- The only surprising voice acting performance in Barnyard (2006) is David Koechner's performance as the villain. He's the best thing about Barnyard and he's freakin scary! It's a shame that the rest of the film couldn't live up to his performance.

Tai Lung- Unlike most villains nowadays, he's not evil just for the sake of being evil. He's just very hurt.

Slade- I love how he always works in the shadows and how he manipulates others to do his bidding. Even when he was serving Trigon, he was pure awesomeness. Especially when (after getting his mortality back) he was like "I'm nobody's servant".
 
Anti-villains and complete monsters are always my favorite. With the former, the villain can have perfectly reasonable and sympathetic reasons for doing what he does. But for the latter, it's just interesting to see how far a villain will go in what he does.
 
I wondered if the Beagle Boys (Ducktales), Don Karnage (Talespin), the Daltons brothers (Lucky Luke) might be in the same category as Team Rocket for harmless, ineffectual category? Also in Tintin's adventure "Flight 714 for Sydney", Rastatopulos and Lieutenant Allan who was once more dangerous threat to Tintin and Captain Haddock, was turned into a caricature of themselves.
 
My most favorite villain types(I'm a big villain fan!):

Harmless Villains:

Elmer Fudd,80s Cobra Commander,Boris & Natasha,The Beagle Boys,Elmyra,Bullgator & Axle,Bowser/King Koopa,Bushroot,The Amoeba Boys,Count Spankula,The Toilenator,Dr.Drakken,Prof.Chaos,The Monarch,Jack Spicer,Dr.Doofenshmirtz,L.O.S.E.:Voltar,Reginald "Red" Menace,Doktor Frogg,& Doomageddon,Emperor Pilaf,The Spice Girls:Ginger,Pepper,& Sugar,Team Rocket:Jesse,James,& Meowth,Petrafina,The Rubberrobo Gang:Seaslug,Squidguts,Gillgirl,& Shrimplips,Prince Eccentro,King Dedede,Skullduggery,Excel & Hyatt,Go & Rosa,The Big Butt Bandits,Jelly Jiggler,Dengakuman,Dr.Z.,& The Alpha Gang:Ursula,Zander,& Ed.

My reasons:They're pretty great examples which they may be evil,but they're harmless/funny in their own way of their actions,but I mostly feel sorry for poor Elmer Fudd,Bushroot,Jack Spicer,Dr.Doofenshmirtz,& Voltar/Doktor Frogg at times as well.

Anti-Villains:

Catwoman,Mr.Zero/Freeze,Morgana,Stegmutt,Neptunia,Magneto,David Xanatos,Fox,MacBeth,Pinky & The Brain,Lex Luthor,Lobo,Invader Zim,Prince Zuko,Jinx,Red X,Terra,Capt.Long John Silver,Clayface(Ethan),Doyle,Grier,Zhalia,The Outsiders:Black Lightning,Metamorpho,& Katana,Bat-Mite,Lashinga,Caesar,Bat-Man Leader,Vegeta,Android #18,Fat Majin Buu,Nova Shenron,Team Rocket:Jesse,James,& Meowth,Ryoga,Mousse,Ken/The Digimon Emperor,Impmon/Beezlemon,Nagi,Maximillion Pegasus,Mako,Mai,Rebecca,Duke,Johnny,Dr.Crowler,Chazz,Tania,Abidos III,Prof.Banner/Amnael,Kagemaru,Jean Louis Bonaparte,Aster,Tyranno,Sartorious,Sarina,T-Bone,Prince Ojin,Bob,Dr.Eisenstein,Axel,Yubel,Jack,Uryu,Trudge,Bolt,Hunter,Akiza,Buffaloman,Checkmate,Sesshoumaru,Rouge the Bat,Shadow the Hedgehog,General Shuda,Go & Rosa,Sieg Hart,Let,Reina,Julius,Lazenby,Blanche,Lust,Gin,Hachi,Sir Crocodile,Mr.2,Nico Robin,Franky & the Franky Family,Lill,Lola,Cindry,Duvall,Kikyou,Boa Hancock,Sakura,Zabuza & Haku,The Sand Ninjas:Baki,Gaara,Kankuro,& Temari,Arashi,The Fat Idiot Brothers:Fuujin & Raijin,Ranmaru,The Ryudouin Brothers:Genshou,Rakkaku,& Jako,Gennou,Guren,Capt.Jurgens,Dominic,Anemone,Charles & Ray,The Soul Society,Yoshino,The Visoreds,Masquerade,General Logi,Suzaku,Jeremiah,Villetta,Cornelia,Guileford,Gino,Anya,Viral,Lord Genome,& Colonel Sergei.

My reasons:They were awesome who're great villains with a heart of gold to become heroic to help the heroes at times even Team Rocket in certain episodes as well like Wobbapalooza:anime:,Invader Zim ends up saving the world at times besides conquering it,& Viral and Lord Genome were the most awesome anti-villains in Gurren Lagann.


Complete Monsters:

Megatron,Butch,Lyle Lanley,Zarm,Wrath-A-Mon,Apocalypse,M.Bison,Carnage,Negaduck,Gaston,Scar,Judge Claude Frollo,The Joker,Darkseid,Bradley Uppercrust III,The Hacker,Trent Boyette,2003 Shredder,Slade,Princess Azula,Firelord Ozai,Sentinel Prime,Heather,Justin,Suzy,V.V. Argost,Cad Bane,Elizabeth "Lightning Liz" Sergeant,Evil Stevens,Kid Majin Buu,Ryoko Mendou,Damien,Paul,Hunter J.,Nabiki,Gendo,Myotismon,Naraku,Elder Toguro,Lucia Raregroove,Arlong,Envy,Pride,Gohda,Kyoji Mujo,Orochimaru,Pein,Sosuke Aizen,Light Yagami,Diva & Amshell,Masquerade,Naga,Klaus,Prince Hydron,Spectra Phantom,Prof.Clay,Ace,Delphinium,Mao,Schneizel,Rolo,& Prince Ali.

My reasons:All of them are awesome,but ruthless,sadistic,& psychopathic in their way by committing such nasty,cruel acts on others which even Butch the Baby from Porky Pig,M.Bison from Streetfighter,Princess Azula from Avatar:The Last Air Bender,Suzy from Phineas & Ferb,Paul from Pokemon Diamond/Pearl,Ryoko from Urusei Yatsura,Lucia Raregroove from Rave Master,Orochimaru from Naruto,Masquerade & Naga from Bakugan:Battle Brawlers,Mao,Schneizel,& Rolo from Code Geass,& Prince Ali from Mobile Suit Gundam 00 were so horrible,nasty to boot:evil:,but both Sentinel Prime from Transformers:Animated,Heather from Total Drama Island/Action,& Light Yagami from Death Note are easily for me to despise.

Awesome Villains:

Yosemate Sam,Mumm-Ra,No Heart,Fearless Leader,Sideshow Bob,Gargamel,Zarm,Cyril Sneer,Shere Khan,Don Karnage,Megavolt,Steelbeak,Megabyte,Chairface Chippendale,Mr.Mental,Demona,David Xanatos,Pretorius,Sharky The Sharkdog,Jafar,Scar,Dr.Robotnik,Lex Luthor,The Hobgoblin,Venom,Dr.Doom,Ren Hoek's evil twin,The Lobe,Scarab,The Leader,Damien,Black Manta,Robot Santa Claus,Dr.Cortex,Mojo Jojo,The Delightful Children from Down The Lane,Father,Commander Gorrath,Vlad Masters(Plasmius),Wuya,Chase Young,Slade,Molotov,Phantom Limb,Princess Azula,Master Cyclonis,General Grievous,Count Dooku,V.V. Argost,Gentleman Ghost,Lieutenant Vronchy,Owlman,Piccolo Daimo,Majin Buu,Ryoko Mendou,Giovanni,Cyrus,B-ko,Myotismon,Cherubimon,Yami Bakura,Yami Marik,Naraku,Millions Knives,King Raregroove,Sir Crocodile,Rob Lucci,Greed,Itachi,Pein,Sosuke Aizen,Jin Kariya,Chunyan,Mikami,Naga,Masquerade,Prince Hydron,Spectra Phantom,Nene,Emperor Charles & Marianne,Lord Genome,Alejandro,& Ribbons.

My reasons:All of them were the greatest villains which they may be evil because of their cruel,ruthless acts,but they do it so awesome by being awesomely EVIL.
 
Unrealistic? No. Though it can still be repetitive and bland.

I can't really comment, I was never really into X-Men TAS. But ideally, Magneto is supposed to be a well-written character with noble goals (though some versions simply choose to write him as a generic villain)

Well, they can overlap, but there might be dynamic villains who aren't sympathetic, and vice-versa. Sympathy being in the eye of the viewer, and all that.

Potentially, though the problem is the writing rarely ever addresses that side of it and treat it as a serious issue and instead choose to use it as an excuse for the hero and villain to fight every week with no real change in the status quo.

I suppose, though that's expected in villains who turn good. Finding it in villains who stay villains is the challenge. Azula and Ozai, in comparison, were one-dimensional and generic.

Sure, though take into consideration that historically those types of people have also done plenty of good for their people and countries, despite those atrocities. But that's getting a bit off topic (and perhaps political)
 
But again some of the best movie characters are people who were just psychopaths, like Anton Chigurh from No Country For Old Men, Buffalo Bill from Silence of the lambs, Michael Myers from Halloween Daniel Plainview from "there Will be Blood". Heck Hannibal Lecter wasn't as interesting when you found out his back story in that bad "Hannibal Rising" from about a year or so ago. You can make a really good characters out villains with no sympathetic, that's why most people love those villains, sometimes you don't want a villain to sympathize with, sometimes you want an villain you just hate. Those types of villains good characters well.

A character doesn't have to be sympathetic to be interesting.



So maybe there are more sympathitic cartoon villains out there, but you haven't seen the right cartoons?




Can you name any examples?

I think if character is sympathetic on some level, they are sympathetic characters.



With Two-Face it was often treated as a serious issue, same deal with the Ventriloquist, it was treated as a serious issue for those two characters, so it



Again unsympathetic does not mean uninteresting.

But you never sure that Zuko would would switch sides, till the middle of the third season. There is a thn line between anti hero and anti villain afterall. What's Catwoman an anti hero or an anti villain?

I think the factr Azula suffered a mental breakdown would have made her sympathetic to some people.

Besides you often have contrast sympathetic villains with non sympathetic villians, to make the sympathetic villains more sympathetic, if the anti villain isn't given some real monsters to deal with now and again, her may not seem sympathetic. That's why in X-Men TAS a sympathetic Magneto is pitted against unsympathetic villains like Sinister and Apocalypse.

Have you ever Punisher Max, a comic that does the best job of exploring Punisher's charater? Punisher himnself is grey character, but the people he fights are complete monsters, because if frank blew away sympathetic villains, he would no longer be sympathetic. You need unsympathetic villains to contrast the sympathetic ones.



Not to get too off topic, first means don't justify means, most people today don't think slavery and the slaugther of natives are good things? second can think any recent examples of that, because I think of plenty places were those types of actions made countries into hell holes, like North Korea, Burma, Sudan, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Bosnia in the 90s, Sierra Leone, Rwanada in 94, etc. The people who run those countries were very unsympathetic and flat out evil.

Not mention there are none political examples, most serial killers who target children are considered highly unsympathetic by almost everyone.

In real life, some people are just evil and are not sympathetic.
 
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