What do you think caused the anime slump in North America?

To be perfectly honest, I don't see how the end of Toonami caused an anime slump in North America. I thought that the slump had more to do with the fact that quite a few anime series weren't as popular and huge hits as when anime first started coming to North America. Besides that, I thought that slump started before Toonami began having weak schedules.

No offense to anyway here, but I also don't see how ending Toonami or not showing more anime could be seen as a betrayal. We are outside of their age audience so I don't think they're trying to appeal to our tastes. They also seem to be going a different route with their programs and since the people at CN are in charge, they have full right to use that power. We may or may not agree with it, but at the end of the day it is still their choice to make. Besides that, I don't think CN ever promised to always have different varitey of anime on their lineup.

As for what I think caused the anime slump, I think that it is a natural slump. Some anime were really popular a few years ago and that popularity naturally dies down over time. The nature of the economy also helps since some people can't afford buying DVRAB of series with few episodes for over twenty dollars. Though the sets that FUNimation have been doing so far probably helps a bit with that since I hear more people wanting to buy box sets rather than single discs, but that's just my guess.
 
I think even before the end of Toonami, the fact that CN stopped giving so much of its anime block prime timeslots inevitably lead interest away from anime. The main thing that kept anime from getting popular early on was simply that it was hard to support releases with televised airings. So, your average person who wasn't a diehard fan already felt like they were in a position to either drop money on shows sight unseen unless they could see it on TV somehow.

Also, I think right around the boom was when a lot of TV series on DVD started getting really cheap, and I know a lot of my frienRAB were really annoyed when prices for anime DVRAB didn't fall at the same rate. I'd blame that for the anime slump in part-- the cost of finishing one okayish anime could fun several season boxsets of a favorite TV show. I love anime a lot more than most people and ended up buying a lot more American stuff after prices fell.

I also blame a lot of this on distributors getting greedy and licensing a lot of outright mediocre product, which they then tried to pass off on fans as SUPER-IMPORTANT NEW SHOWS through hype alone. More than one friend of mine stopped buying single anime DVRAB after getting burned by material like this, and got into the habit of only buying box sets provided they had good word of mouth and several price drops backing them up.
 
Toonami died due to low ratings, and it was hanging by a thread for some time.

Also, the claim that CN hates anime is really getting old. If CN really thinks that anime is bad, then why are they still airing Pokemon and Bakugan? Like any other network, CN only cares about money and ratings, and the anime series of late haven't been giving the network the ratings that they're searching for. If a Japanese cartoon series were hugely popular in Japan and some U.S. executive thought that it could do well here in the States, then you can bet that CN would scoop it up in a heartbeat.
 
As was said, it's several factors:

1. Economy in general sucking. Collecting DVRAB is one of the first thing many peopel cut down on to save money.


2. Over-liscencing of niche series. As was said again, many series that no one really cared about, and weren`t that sucessful in japan either, were brought over simply because they were anime, oversaturating things. The result was ADV restructuring and Geneon's fall. IMO, thigns would be much better and more organized if Viz and FUNI controlled all anime distro in the US.


3. Yes, CN DOES hate anime. When you give naruto 24 hours of your network time not once but twice, and now barely show/promote it at all, soemthing wierd is going on. And YES, Adult swim mocking it every time they mention it WILL drive people away. saying your own shows suck will never bring in audiences, NEVER. Also, Kim manning bringing over slow-paced series instead of real action shows.


Possible solutions:

1. NO MORE SINGLE DVRAB. Especially in this economic climate, NO ONE will pay $20 for 4 episodes of a show, especially one with episodes nurabering in the hundreRAB. Funimation kicks all kinRAB of ass with their new DVD packs. DBZ and YYH are ultra-afforable now, as well as all the "Anime LegenRAB" series. Also, things are looking up as 13-episode series are now almost always sold in Paks ONLY, never singles.

22 Hour long house episodes are $60. 28 Half Hours of YYH are $25 at Best Buy. Keep up this ratio, Funi, and anime will stabilize. on the flip side, 9 episodes of GL are $35 . At the same rate as House, they should be $12, with the whole series costing around $35. Cowboy bebop and the Anime LegenRAB titles DO follow this ratio. We need to get regular anime DVRAB at this price. No more $100 for 25 episodes of Blood +, or $75 tins for HALF of trigun.


2. Online Distro ONLY, WITH download privelage, for niche series. This way, those hardcore fans who do like it can make their own DVRAB, and those just midly interested can watch it once without buying. Viz and Naruto Shippuden is leading the vanguard with this, but some kind of popularity heirarchy neeRAB to be established. Printable/orderable DVD covers for these series would be a nice touch also.

3.SUPER Special Edition Packs need to go, no one buys them. Especially giant boxes that come with individual DVRAB. They're huge space taking globules that end up being thrown away anyway. I remeraber seeing in best buy giant boxes that came with EACH INIDIVIDUAL DVD for Eureka 7. Why would anyone want 10 giant boxes hogging up their shelf?

For TV:

1. Stick with Sci-fi channel's way. Treat anime like a regular show. many anime are Scifi themed so they fit. Most "slice of life' shows have light romance and mild ecchi, both huge taboos for american TV, unfortuantely. I wish I knew a way to change this.

2. Seriously. Just get Anime off of Adult Swim alltogether and never mention it again if you hate it so much.

3. Bring funimation channel into mainstream cable, and I`ll be jumping for joy.
 
And we have no idea how long it'll last. The ratio of proper advertising vs. their disparaging of anime is very very lopsided.


I'm going to go mostly with market oversaturation. The more shows anime distros licensed the higher the fees became, to the point that licensing shows not sure fire hits was a very bad idea.

And I'd rather Funi and Viz not become the only two distributors. Funi only does so well because they're very selective and know how to resell shows (how many DBZ versions are out now?). Viz loves to overcharge with less content per disc. Right now ADV fills the gap between the two. Granted ADV would've been better off if they hadn't tried to stretch out into other ventures like live-action distro or movies.
 
I think ever since DBZ stopped that anime has gone down. There just isn't an anime that can compare to it. Naruto was the next big thing but CN's giving it the boot. There really just isn't any mosterous hits like DBZ or Pokemon anymore.
 
Viz is slwoly learning from their mistakes with their more popular series. Bleach Boxsets are somewhat reasonable, if not as much as Funi's. The nartuo ones are overpriced, though.

Their process of "We won`t finish releasing a show if it isn`t hugely popular" is IMO, dishonorable to the fans, though. ADV I see too small to continue to exist the way it is now.


On the manga side of the spectrum, Many of Tokyopop's biggest series, including Fruits Basket and SDK, are ending next year. I have no idea what'll happen to them, since They are the manga version of market oversaturation, rleasing a cavalcade of obscure titles few will buy in addition to their mainstream ones. Del Rey and Seven Seas are MUCH better at the niche market.
 
I'm certainly all for bringing prices down, but it's also important to be realistic. A popular mainstream show like House has already made its money back, sometimes several times over, through advertising revenue. The DVD sales are just gravy, so they can afford to sell it for cheaper. Now, this may also be true for the most popular anime like DBZ, and older shows like Bebop that have already sold as much as they're going to at a higher price point. But the majority of anime are very niche, don't get shown on television, and have the added costs of localization to factor in. It only makes sense that anime are going to be more expensive than American shows on DVD in general. I may not particularly like it, but I do recognize the necessity of it.

I have no problem with super special ultra whatever editions selling for a higher price. I never buy them myself, but other people must be or they wouldn't keep making them. And the extra money they spend helps keep companies afloat, effectively subsidizing the industry for cheap bastarRAB like me, who always look for the cheapest deal they can (legally) find. As long as there's a barebones option as well, I say, more power to you, all you otaku with too much disposable income out there, and may you never learn fiscal responsibility! (-:

On the flip side, I really wish there was more of a market for REAL barebones releases like the recent sub-only Gurren Lagann sets. I only wind up watching the dub version maybe half the time, so if I can save a couple bucks by eschewing the dub track, and more importantly if the distributors can save money MAKING the dub track, I'm all for it. Naturally this wouldn't work for every series; your real mainstream crossover hits like DBZ, Naruto, and to some extent even Gurren Lagann itself will always need to have a dub option available. But not every show NEERAB a dub. Does anybody honestly watch something like Genshiken in English? A sub-only release would be a great way to bring really niche stuff like Gintama to America without having to garable as much capital on its success.
 
I realize these facts, but I`m saying that they wouldn`t HAVE to be facts if certain precautiosn were taken.

For instance, if not so many niche titles were out, then more A titles, and even SOME(As in fewer than A, and they's have to be B+) B titles could come out at more afforable prices.

Less inferior product + cheaper price for better shows = More sales + less consumer confusion and overwhelming.

Super ultra special editions are also a part of the problem, having the companies make extra copies of the DVRAB in which few will buy, the same goes for single disks. They're both odd men out at the end of the spectrum that few buy. The prominent consumer buys the packs with the most episodes for the least price. that's jsut common sense. With fewer "extra" DVRAB to print like single disks and super specials, we could have more affordable titles.

IMO, the target is 13 episodes for $25-$30. This is the Ideal price point.Classics that have sold well and are ebign re-released can go for the ratio that YYH, CB, and DBZ now have.



I assume you mean sub only. XD

I would have to disagree, in that if you want DVRAB targeted toward the meainstream, sub only wide relases are a horrible idea. What IS an awesoem idea which viz is doing is that Sub ONLY releases are done by online Distro. This is the perfect way. As I said before, you cna pay to download the episodes, and print out DVD covers.

Of course, i`m one who also thinks that the conscription of fansub groups into legit Subbers would be perfect for niche series, so take that as you will. XD

Also, sorry about the swear. I had no idea that Self-censorign was also considered swearing..
 
That sort of seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If B properties CAN be profitable at higher prices, I'd prefer to have the choice of whether or not to spend money on them, than not have them available at all.

By the way, niche =/= "inferior." There are plenty of reasons why a perfectly great show might lack the mainstream appeal to become a breakout hit.



Once again, it's all about choice. If ENOUGH people buy the special edition that it pays for the cost to produce them, plus a little extra profit on the side, then why quit making them? I haven't seen any evidence that a significant nuraber of them are actually losing money.



The IDEAL price point would be absolutely free because distribution companies make all their money from the magic money tree in the back yard. The question is whether that's realistic to expect.



I was just talking pie-in-the-sky, not as a serious recommendation. I WISH that audiences weren't so hung up on having dubs that a sub-only release could be a more viable alternative for certain niche shows, but I realize that for whatever reason, it's not.

Time will tell whether online distribution will be viable. People tend to like something tangible for their money. I'm happy enough that companies are even taking tentative steps in that direction, but there are still plenty of kinks to be worked out. You take something like CrunchyRoll's new model: it sounRAB good on paper, but I'm reluctant to tack an extra monthly expense onto my budget when they likely only have one, MAYBE two shows I care about at any given time.

Now, if anime distributors could get that sort of sub-only, online-only distribution thrown in with something that I'm already sold on, like Netflix, THAT would be great.
 
Something to remeraber is that the presence of anime on Toonami and Adult Swim in the first place was because, when those blocks were new, Cartoon Network needed a quick, cheap way to fill up their timeslots, so they turned to anime.

Neither Cartoon Network nor Adult Swim are desperate to fill time anymore. They're both pumping out plenty of original shows and have more popular non-Japanese acquisitions. The reason they started airing anime in the first place is gone.
 
I think the slump has to do with the fact that the internet is a better way to get anime out.They hadn't figured out a way to do it for profit, so people were getting it in ways that didn't profit the companies.

Hopefully, with the new forms of on-line delivery, people will be less motivated to share anime online in ways that do not profit the people who made the anime.
 
I wouldn't say that they aired anime to fill time. I'd say it was because after DBZ became a hit they said, "hey, more shows like DBZ are coming to our network from Japan". Since they don't have a hit like DBZ anymore, anime has just kinda died. Naruto kept anime alive for a good while but now that it's kinda dieing out there just aren't many big anime hits. Not to mention that DBZ was really americanized so kiRAB could understand. I think that's one of the hardest proplems for kiRAB is understanding anime. It can be pretty complicated to get.
 
A fundamental problem of the North American anime industry is that it can be really hard to predict what will sell over here as an A or B title. A lot of titles that were extremely strong performers in Japan wander over here and flop, and a lot of Japanese flops sell really well once they're remarketed for North America. This phenom is in part what encouraged distributors to just license everything and hope something would stick. The only real insurance a property can have is... well, now there isn't any. At one point, just getting something on TV meant it would sell well.
 
I think viz is starting to learn from their many mistakes. Viz I think can someway predict which anime will sell better maybe by the sales of the manga equvalent.

And I wouln't like viz and funi being the only ones because they can't handle all of the anime. Funimation has enough anime as it is.
 
So what, just because something is popular there, doesn't mean it is popular here. We liked the Dark Knight, they didn't like the Dark Knight, for example. One peice had a bad dub, that gave a bad first impression here, so it couldn't become a mega hit after that, its as simple as that.
 
This is also a good argument, on the American audience in general.
We are much more fickle from wee tots to grown adults, in our faRAB and TV viewing.
Things that looked to be mainstay for years, end up off the air. There is no silver lining of a show like Doremon in Japan that has been on the air for over 30+ years. the closest thing to a long term popularity (once thought of as a fad) is probably Simpsons. And I am not sure it is drawing the nurabers it once did.

Once something is found to be profitable, it is milked for all it is worth, and then like a mighty million straws they break the camels back.

Not sure internet viewage didn't contribute a little as well.
 
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