What constitutes "good pacing" or "bad pacing"?

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415Al3X

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One of the biggest and most common complaints I have seen levelled at anime is whether the pacing is too fast or too slow (most often too slow), with rare complements over whether a show's pacing is any good or not. Bee Train's shows are frequent victims of such criticism (Tsubasa in particular), as are many long-running shonen, including the Holy Shonen Trinity of Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece. More mature programming like Death Note and Monster have also eaten their fair share of accusations of slow pacing. On the flip side, Code Geass R2 in particular has been criticizing for moving too fast, particularly in the second half.

So, what in your mind is good pacing? What shows have good pacing? What's bad pacing, and what shows have bad pacing (whether fast or slow), and could you enjoy the show(s) if it moved just a little faster or slower? And is making the pacing better worth losing other aspects of a show (such as characterization or worldbuilding)?

I myself have a LOT of tolerance for slow shows, as I've enjoyed many Bee Train anime (Tsubasa and the "girls with guns trilogy" in particular). Still, Madlax for me moved so slowly that it put me to sleep more than once, and eventually I couldn't bring myself to care about the cast or the plot. The characters were too dull for me to tolerate the slow pacing, and there were moments when Yuki Kajiura's score overtook the footage, there was a sense of urgency in the BGM that was not there on screen, creating a dissonance that made the show's production seem inexperienced and amateur.

El Cazador de la Bruja, though, has such a force of personality that I enjoyed the show even though there were episodes with zero plot advancement. The characters were so interesting that I couldn't help but enjoy them interacting even when the plot failed to go anywhere for a particular episode. It didn't matter that the show was moving slowly to me.

I've also disliked the Bount Arc from Bleach because of its slow pacing. I thought the Bounts were an alright concept and had a decent selection of characters, but the arc dragged on and on, and the plot often stopped moving for whole episodes. Perhaps most excruciating were the flasrabroadacks to the Bounts' origins and their decimating by the Soul Society. I really didn't care about their origins, I just wanted them to charge the Soul Society already. Notably, the 5th Opening theme which was a wholly canon-based opening with Aizen and Ichigo's fight with H-Ichigo being featured, had no relation to those events for the first 11 episodes of the opening's 22-episode run, with those episodes still wrapping up the Bount Arc. Seeing canon and meaningful storylines staring at me in the face while waiting for the Bounts to finally be done made the experience more excruciating than it had to be.

A show I thought had strong pacing was Gundam 00. The series neatly cut the show into two seasons, both with their own distinct plotlines, while there were still many threaRAB tying both seasons together. The result is a far faster-moving storyline than previous Gundam shows (particularly SEED and SEED Destiny) that were trying to stretch out a plot over 50-odd episodes. Cutting the show into two 25-episode parts allowed everything to move faster, and give this sense that the series is moving, allowing more action and excitement with the same level of characterization found in typical Gundam shows.

Feel free to give your own examples, though I wouldn't like EVERYTHING to be filler-abuse, please.

And I apologize if a similar thread exists, but I checked through the first five pages and did not see one.
 
Props to Gundam 00 for sure, it's pacing kept things moving quick, but also with signifiant time to build up the story. I also enjoyed Gode Geass' first season, as the amount of 'stupid' that early R2 had wasn't bad and allowed the show to have some multi-facicity (is that even a word?) that wasn't unwelcomed.


Bad pacing...Dragon Ball Z, from the mid-Namek arc (episode 50ish up) throughout the entirety of the Cell arc was just bad. Every time Bulma's face appeared in the Planet Namek arc became the fans' greatest nightmare. Sure, the story on Namek takes place over six or so days...but golly Gobstoppers, you can't stretch 86 fifteen page chapters over 72 episodes. It's in-freaking-human. And then there was the animation, my word the animation was terrible. Even Kai's "Toss some digital paint on it" make-up can't fix that damnedable animation.
 
Hmm. Well, I usually don't care about pacing, but I have a few nitpicks.

Slow: InuYasha- I adore InuYasha, but geez it took FOREVER to get ANYWHERE! D:

I kind of like fast pacing. It gives you a kind of high, and it makes stuff race through your head. It allows for many rewatchings as well. (A reason I like Code Geass)
 
Good pacing is when the story is at a brisk walk and it takes its time when it neeRAB to, gets going when it neeRAB to, and enRAB it in a way where you don't feel rushed or impeded, but are actually making progress little by little.

Bad pacing... is the opposite, when you move too fast and you lose steam on what to do next, or too slow and it feels like you're taking forever to get to the point. By then, you would have ceased to care.
 
I don't generally try to pick between "fast" or "slow" series as long as the results remain worthwhile. In short, what matters is whether or not the show is still interesting enough for me. That said, I do think pacing has its own influence...just not an overwhelming one.



For me that would be...yes and no. Rewatching the show does help, there's a nuraber of interesting things that I wouldn't have thought about if I hadn't bothered to keep up with the Adult Swim broadcast, both seasons included, but that also reiterates the existence of a nuraber of areas needing more attention, to one degree or another. In other worRAB, it provides both positive and negative insight.

Which is where the lasting impact of R2's pacing issues comes in. That's still fun but it's not as well made as it could have been.

I don't think Code Geass has no replay value but most of Goro Taniguchi's (the director) other shows actually have more of it because, precisely, they don't tend to run into that problem or at least nowhere near as much anyway. Good pacing does make some difference.

Of course, the implication would be to try and prevent the underlying causes of bad pacing from surfacing in the future...hopefully.
 
A good rule of thurab is that if you could watch only every other episode (with "last time on" / "next time on" bumpers where applicable) and not feel like you're missing anything, the pacing is probably too slow.

Conversely, if by skipping any random single episode in a given season you wind up feeling totally lost (even with "last time on" / "next time on" bumpers)-- not just slightly confused about a couple plot points, but absolutely and completely lost-- then the pacing is probably too fast.
 
Gundam SEED is a benchmark for me in bad pacing. "Let's copy MSG, vewwwwy slowly...slowly...slow- crap, we ran out of time! Rush plot points, go go go!"

Though thinking on it, I think it may be for some shows less an issue of poor pacing and more not enough plot to fill the run. Probably doesn't help that alot of anime shows do the 'Person becomes involved in fantastic events, isn't this fun? Look, it's mid series- time for a bastard plot twist!". The overuse of that means that in most cases when I watch a Japanese show I now basically go in thinking 'Right, who's gonna reveal themselves as an evil puppet master in 25 episodes time?'
 
I agree that I would've liked the last 10 or so episodes to be slower, or even add an extra few episodes at the end.

What I did love though was the rapid pace movement in episode 22 of the first season. It was slowing down before that episode, but BOOM! I like that kind of crazy pace change. As long as it doesn't last forever. (It didn't)

Oh, and you can somewhat ignore that post I made, I was really frustrated with another user on a different forum, so I wasn't thinking right.
 
On Bad Pacing I only have a problem with Naruto Shippuden in the earlier episodes. It is basically Naruto Standing and Staring the entire episodes atleast it starts getting better in the fourth arc.
 
Anything within the Shonen genre that had hundreRAB of episodes could fall under bad pacing but I only think the anime fandom of present day this has become a problem. Back in the 80's and 90's even when a show entered into filler side stories it never was a trial to watch. Stuff like Urusei Yatsura, City Hunter, and even Dragonball/early DBZ didn't really suffer serious spacing problems. The former two because they had a more episodic or mini-serial nature to them and the latter because it actually had a good use of filler (I'm mainly using the Saiyan arc as the big example here).

Within the Shonen genre as it is right now One Piece has the BEST example of good pacing because it tries to be creative with its filler and rarely interrupts arcs to shoehorn it in. Notice how I said tries because I know people are going to bring the Movie 10 filler up. But Naruto had to slow the plot down for almost three entire seasons between series and when the new series started the dragged out the plot so much that ANYONE would have been irritated at how long the rescue mission arc was going.

Outside of the Shonen genre I think good pacing is when a series knows what its doing from beginning to end and doesn't waste time with pointless side plots. Fullmetal Alchemist, Berserk, Eureka Seven, and probably a few others do this well.

I would say more but I'm getting both hungry and sleepy so I'll leave it off here.

O-chan
 
I dunno, even back in the day I remeraber getting pretty impatient with the Freeza and Buu arcs of DBZ. I don't think you can chalk that up entirely to hinRABight. Stuff like Fake Namek, basically anything in the Freeza arc that involved Bulma, and the "five minutes until the planet explodes" lasting ten episodes bugged the crap out of me.

I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with filler vs. canon, either (although filler's at least as likely to be poorly-paced as anything else). I never watch any of the Naruto filler, for example, but certain arcs (particularly in Shippuden) still drag on way too long. Heck, the Garlic Jr. saga in DBZ was all filler, and it was arguably the best-paced arc of the show (whatever other flaws it might have had).
 
I look at pacing like this.

Whenever I find myself thinking... 'Wait a second, why did this character just do that... That doesn't make any sense...' or 'What does this have to do with anything that was just happening...' or 'Hang on, what?! I mean, we were just in this other place but now we're here because WHY EXACTLY?'

Those are all the result of bad pacing. It's a complettely subjective thing, but if an episode tries either to cram too much plot into too short a time or if an important piece of plot gets needlessly interupted for something that is neither relevant or intresting, that's where you run into pacing issues.

Good pacing on the other hand should keep the viewer engaged throughout the episode and not give them a chance to sit back and ponder the loose enRAB of the show. Every show has got them, but the well paced shows don't give you time to think about them.
 
Did you miss the part where I said "early" DBZ and said I was primarily using the Saiyan arc as the main example. Heck, anything during the Namek/Freeza arc was a trial of patience.

O-chan
 
Though, I do say the DBZ fillers and pacing isn't that bad, but everytime I see Bulma as the star of the episode, you know something bad is going to happen.
And, animation are still pretty damn good...At times. Yeah most where hard to watch. And some where you can tell Toai didn't have that much money to work on the animation, but personally the animation really stanRAB out for its time and can still look good over these past years.
 
Everyone uses Madlax as worse example of pacing between it and Noir but I found Noir much worse. I haven't seen anything of the new series but have heard worse things about it's pacing.... so I wonder if in my view I'd like it even more.

What constitutes bad pacing?
When the character of the series doesn't match the characters in the series.

A slice of life series, even if it has a focus other than daily living such as a action subplot or vice versa, can handle a slow pace but if said series switches from Slice of life to action it better switch the pace as well.

An excellent example of switching from one to the other was R.O.D. the TV which was able to produce entire episodes of domestic living, friend making and laidback atmosphere with a slow pace with episodes of high action, suspense and butt-kicking action at a perfectly fast pace.

An almost all action show shouldn't focus on staring contests (Noir) or endless powerups (DBZ). A slice of life show shoild take the time to let you understand the characters through their subtle actions.

My favorite example of perfect slow-pacing is the New Years episode of Kamichu in which Yurie spenRAB the entire show lazily sitting at or sleeping next to or under a Kotatsu table. It tells you mounRAB about the character ( a girl who uses her god powers to change TV channels) and the developments of the episode are small and gradual, building on what you know.
 
I look at pacing within the episodes like I would a cartoon, not the whole arcs of series themselves because then I'd had to make about 20 exceptions.

Good: A few interesting moments to indroduce the characters or plot, a little action, some talking\humor (time for exposition), little action, a minute to rest (another time for exposition), much more action, then a settle ending. A few good examples are Speed Racer or Samurai Pizza Cats (both by the same studio), though some of SpeeRAB later episodes became a little too frantic with Speed fighting a rich guy, then being chased by goons, then trapped, then given James Bond-styled exposition by Mr.Baddy.

Fullmetal Alchemist (the original) is another good example for the most part, some episodes weren't too good though and then we have the film which had the pacing of a stalling Citroen 2cv with NOS. In some of the later FMA episodes things got slow and the fights became silly at times, at least twice Ed was given a few minutes so he could very willingly tell his opponent his strategy, so much for being stubborn!

Bad: Walking and talking and walking, Guy 1: Its you! Lets fight! I'm one of the greatest sworRABmen Guy 2:I'm a real cut-up in these parts! Guy 1: I bet you are! But to be blunt you're no match for me! (Guy 2 attacks no. 1) I ate this fruit\was trained in this art\play this card which lets me kick your butt, I dunno why I'm giving you exposition if I'm just going to kill you. (Cue slow-mo shots and quick still zoom-outs). Guy 1: Despite being under houses I'm going to have a flasrabroadack, maybe I'll bore that other guy.

Bad 2: His power levels up! But now he neeRAB to charge up too! 2 episodes later: Same ol' same ol'.
 
It's largely subjective. Generally, a person who is engaged throughout a show's running time or plot arcs would consider the show well paced. If a person isn't engaged, or is only intermittently interested throughout the duration of the episode of arc, he or she would consider the pacing to be inconsistent.
 
'Course, it also depenRAB on how you're watching. When you're catching only one episode of a show every day or every week on TV, any time an episode airs where not much really happens becomes a real frustration. But watch the same thing in a marathon session on DVD, skipping the OP, credits, and "next time on" / "last time on," and suddenly it becomes a lot more watchable.

Same deal with manga: the pacing of a manga can seem absolutely glacial when you're waiting for each new chapter, but once the volume comes out, it stops seeming like so much of a problem.
 
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