What can be done to improve the status of Animation in the U.S?

S

Srinvas

New member
So if you frequent pretty much any animation forum for any particular period of time you'll hear the complaint about animation not being taken seriously as an art form in the U.S.A. Anime fans are notorious for ranting about it, often saying it's the reason they prefer anime so much. Any variety of issues currently in the news can be brought up. The reluctance of some to seriously consider Pixar's latest movie as an option for Best Picture, the current controversy with the W.G.A about if Animation writers should be covered by their guild, even my own teacher's controversial "Read-A-Book" video which many people assumed was for small children.

I of course have a vested personal interest in this as an artist hoping to work in the industry one day soon (Oh and on principle I refuse to shamelessly plug my blog at http://stephenpjames.blogspot.com/ as it wouldn't be ethical :D.) So even though I'm not Jim Harvey or one of the mods I'm putting out a "Fresh question" for you all (some of you newer members might not remember those, we had them every once in a while on this forum back in 2001-2002.)

Open question to every forum member. I'm curious to see what the answers will be.
 
I doubt America will ever take animation more seriously then just a laugh from Family Guy or South Park in the near future. Hell even the animated films make far far far more money with the foreign box office (for example The Simpsons movie made 3/4th of it's sales not in North America). I personally think it's the whole "if it's animated then it's a cartoon, which is for children" perception. Americans in general by far and wide prefer live action to animation. Animation is gaining ground as more and more successful animated series for adults become popular whether on TV (Afro Samurai), Film (Beowulf), or niches (Anime, or those Flash Cartoons). It's a possiblity that one day animation would be taken much more seriously throught the country and probably the world, but as of now I doubt that it is something that will happen in the very near future.
 
This isn't an issue with the U.S., it's pretty much the entire world. All the most popular/successful series in Japan are kids shows/family movies as well, and American properties like Shrek and Lilo & Stitch top the best-selling DVD lists in Japan quite often. So your goal would be to try to change the way all countries view animation. Though compared with Japan, America's animation industry is a lot stronger, but still, comparing Japanese animation to U.S. animation is a flawed argument to begin with due to numerous factors.

Unless you can change the way human beings naturally think, then it'll stay that way.
 
This is indeed a frustraiting subject for me. On one side we have the idiot main stream saying cartoons are for kids, but laughing their heads off at people being humiliated on American Idol and America's funniest home videos. And on the other side, we have elitist artist that call animation a "low art" (no matter what the product), and yet praise a shock artist that poos on a canvas and gives it a religious name for shock's sake.

I don't think there's anything anyone can do. Something is only considered adult if it has as many swears and sex jokes as possible? It would be great if people actually looked at outsider animation like Sally Cruikshank or Mo Willems or something or someone like that. People who are indie animators have the power to do this, but unfortunately no one wants to listen.

Being a cartoonist is hard work. Even to just be one. 4 years of art school, most of which is doing basic and structural stuff unrelated to what you're going to do. And most of the rest of it is excersizing things you do need. And even then, you're not even gaurenteed work. What does it take to pitch a TV show where you throw a bunch of people into a house and see them humiliate and undermine each other? Other than being someone's friend or relative? I think that we should get a little more respect than that.
 
We need more cartoons that aren't age-specific, that are neither condescending to children nor too stupid for adults to watch.

We need more cartoons that don't sacrifice story, content or art design for ratings and target demographics.

We need more cartoons that don't just exist to push toys or clothes or bedspreads.

We need more cartoons that are quotable and well drawn or rendered, not either/or.

We need more cartoons that are made as animators and studios see them, much like buildings are made as architects and construction crews see them.

Only time will tell when the day this all will happen comes, if at all. But I still have hope.
 
Really? You'd think Japan would be a stronger industry since they seem to make much more animation than we do. Also you have to go all the way back to Family Guy and Spongebob in 1999 to find a breakout hit American animated series, while since then Japan has had plenty of successes with Naruto, SGT Frog, Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, Haruhi (a niche show, but it's a niche that spends a lot more money than the American niche does), etc.
 
I think he's talking about the Japanese animation industry being maybe overdependent on manga as a source of stories and characters, rather animation studios creating their own stories and characters.
 
Well it's two things that are the issue here.

One: The reality that animation aimed at older audiences does, and will probably continue, to exist in Japan more than it does in the U.S.

Two: The perception amoung U.S anime fans that everyone in Japan is open to more grown up animation. Of course we know that's not true, but again I was dealing with a "perception" among American anime fans.

Good suggestions Kitschensyngk.
 
I was also including theatrical animatin such as Pixar, Disney, and others, all which continue to make massive amounts of money. There's also the numerous amounts of recent DTV videos such as the Marvel/DC products which seem to be doing well enough to continue making them. There's even non Marvel/DC companies starting to cash in on them, like Turok and Castlevania. TV animation itself isn't bad, Back at Barnyard, Spongebob, Family Guy, Tak, American Dad, and The Simpsons, all continue to do well in the ratings. To a lesser extent, Ben 10, Chowder, and Avatar do decently as well.

I wasn't, but I suppose you can include that. All the titles HG Revolution mentioned are based off a comic or book. A lot of Japanese stuff is. That's not to say the U.S. doesn't do that, but when they do, it's never a "panel-by-panel, plot-by-plot" adaption of the comic like it tends to be in Japan. There's a lot more original productions in America than Japan, which I suppose you can attribute to the Japanese market being unstable and them not taking many chances with original productions much. I'm not to keen on all the current series in Japan ATM, but isn't a large complaint people have is most of them being "moe" or whatever you call it? It sounds like executives in Japan are trying to make up for the decline in animation popularity by making quick cash with all those fad series.

In terms of numbers, sure, but in terms of actual popularity, I would disagree. Family Guy is incredibly popular, and so is The Simpsons and American Dad. That's more popular adult animation in America than you can find in Japan. Comedy, yes, but then again the most popular shows in Japan are also comedies. Going off this info, adults in America seem more open to adult animation than in Japan.
 
The only way to improve it is to prove people wrong. Like many, many cartoonists and producers have said 'make people forget they're watching a cartoon'. Eventually they'll forget that they're not supposed to like cartoons.
 
Animation's popularity is declining in Japan? I thought it was the same as it's always been. Fad shows have always been around in both Japan and America, so they're not really evidence of a decline.



American Dad is popular? News to me. I've never once heard anyone outside of this board say they like that show. Simpsons and Family Guy are big in America, but so are Lupin III and Shin Chan in Japan.
 
We need more high-quality online Flash Series for one. Sure, we have Happy Tree Friends, Homestar Runner, and a few others, but there's still room for more.
 
2 Things: The first is that it's widely known and accepted that the anime market is fading. Yes it's getting more popular in America but DVD sales are down solely due to piracy. In Japan anime is getting less popular and declining in profits. Many say that it's primarly due to two reasons: #1 The fact that the genre is getting stale with mostly rehashes and few new things. #2 The way the media is distributed is 2 generations late. It was pretty clear that corps. should've focued on Season Box sets instead of volumes (at least in the West) now that's even dying with the focus switching to digital distribution (and companies are still focusing on volumes). Think what you want of it but it is fact that anime is turning in less profit as well as companies admmiting that they are focusing more on the "moe". The second is that American Dad has over 50 episodes and has ran for 3 seasons on Fox's biggest Prime Time line-up. If that isn't considered "popular" or "mainstream" I don't know what is.
 
Well, the problem with DVD's and piracy brings up several issues.

The shows that are the most pirated are either ones that are rediculously behind in the US (One Piece, Naruto...etc) or ones that haven't been picked up by a licencee yet. But the irony is, had it not been for said pirates, we wouldn't even have them. Naruto was only known through the internet for a year or so before someone realized it was popular enoguh for a legal release. Ditto Bleach and Deathnote.

The next issue is cost. Quite a few anime DVD's are unreasonably priced (especially if you go to Best Buy) and in some cases, distribution is only available of the top popular titles. Meaning you have to buy them at an expensive store like FYE or go completely on the Internet to look for them.

Plus, well, the ones we're getting now are all exactly the same. The same Cowboy bebop knockoffs and random whiney Shoujo animes. As far as I go, I like rare stuff, weird stuff that just can't find a market on tv. I'd kill for someone to dub Kochikame and put it on Adult Swim or something, but that's not the case. Funny thing? These kinds of shows are about the only things I can't find pirate versions online.

But back on topic, well, considering the HSM fad and the FCC rulings, less and less companies even want to look at new animated projects. The sad irony is that you can only make an adult series profitable. And while we have good stuff like South Park, Family Guy, Simpsons, etc, all we're going to get are the same sex and religion jokes you see on really bad Adult Swim shows. that's the only profit.

I second more Flash cartoons. That's what I want to do. There will always be a small niche market of internet toon hounds. And with the ever decreasing market for animation on TV, that's the only way to go.

Plus, i think more indie animators need to put their works on sites like Youtube. I know Sally Cruikshank has a page (that includes her works from Sesame Street), but I'd love to see more people just put their own work up there, so they can reach the market that won't go to their websites at first.
 
Well, Anime News Network has had a few articles on how Japanese animation and comics have been on a steady decline in Japan (and America) for a few years now (Sorry, could only find one that talks about comics on short notice, but here's one from Icv2) Dencore also brought up some good points.

It could also explain why Japan is doing a lot more co-productions these days (like Oban Star Racers, Guardians of Luna, and Dark Knight) to make up for the losses in money and relying more on foreign countries.

Well, Lupin's about 30+ years old so I think it's a bit odd to use, but Shin-chan's not really like Family Guy where it's for adults only. At best, it's a family show people of all ages can watch, or a kids show parents also like, but not an "adults only" show like Family Guy. (Though the Shin-chan dub is a different story... Funi definately made that for adults)

As for AD, it gets good ratings, and ratings speak more than "word-of-mouth", because if we go by "word-of-mouth" Avatar gets talked about a lot more than Hannah Montana on the internet, but we all know HM is a lot more popular. The Internet isn't a good place to judge popularity.
 
Lupin's not THAT old, since the series ended in the early 80s, plus Lupin still stays in the Japanese public's eye as it has lived on in the form of annual made-for-TV movies for almost 20 years. I agree that Lupin also generally targets all age groups, though possibly an older slant due to its age.

Also, I will have to agree that the Japanese animation industry will likely slim down over the course of many years once medium becomes too expensive to support in large quantities. Although I believe Japanese cartoons will still draw a larger older audience, at least as far as animated dramas.
 
I was comparing both more to The Simpsons than to Family Guy (since Simpsons is a family show that's been on for a pretty long time).

I wasn't judging based off of the internet. I said more people talk about AD online than they do in real life. I don't think I've heard any conversations about American Dad since the pilot premiered, and then it was people saying "It's no Family Guy" and such. Whereas I've actually heard conversations about Hanna Montanna.
 
Back
Top