Under 18 villains redemable / non redemable

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akerfolks

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Once again I begin another villain thread, what can I say I love conflict and villains provide that. Anyway I thought to myself, it seems villains that are kid villains or teenage villains I find most of them redemable. Is it because they are still young, and they not set in their ways yet, and could turn their lives around? I think that is probably the case.

There are very few young baddies that are so evil, that there is no hope for them. There is one under 18 villain that I think it so far into the dark side, and shown little human quality that she will never become a good person. And she is the reason I started this thread.

That villain is Azula of Avatar: The Last Airbender, in all my years I have never seen a villain that young be so evil, so inhuman, that in my opinion chances of redemption in life are slim to none. She is evil, and she loves it. She knows exactly the consiquences of her actions, and she loves it. Especially young Azula from "Zuko Alone".

Avatar is a show with a lot of gray characters, just becauce your fighting for the Fire Nation doesn't make you a villain, if your born into a country like the Fire Nation and you fight for them, doesn't make you a villain. It is not that Azula is Fire Nation that makes her evil, is the person she is. She has personal done horrible things and had horrible thoughts, she showed great joy in her cousin's death, her uncle's sadness over his death, and her father burning the face of her brother, her mother and uncle consider her crazy, her own mother for goodness sakes, the person that gave her life, thinks she is crazy. That tells you something about someone, if your mother has given up on you.

Every other young villain I have seen, has not gone that far bad that they are not redemable. Just because I say someone is redemable, doesn't mean they will find redemption.

There are probably more under 18 villains (mostly from Anime) that I haven't seen that are Azula like bad.
 
Azula's a psychopath, pure and simple. Considering what we have seen of Ozai, it seems half of the Fire Nation's Royal Family has the "psychopath" gene.

In Eureka Seven Colonel Dewey raised 5 children as the "Ageha Squad". They were more or less animated version of child soldiers, children who were programed from a young age to obey any order their superiors gave them, including commiting mass murder. Once a child has been transformed into a sociopath, there is not a whole lot of hope for them.

Also Eric Cartman is pure evil and only 8. He's a nazi that wants to kill all the Jews in the world and he once tricked a teenaged boy he didn't like into eating his own parents. After all of that, I doubt anything could redeem Cartman's black soul.

Most children villains are not evil, because they have not fully developed, so it is hard to fault them for their bad behaviour, many times they don't know better or can unaware of the consequences of their actions. Thus it is very hard to label children as evil, which is why few children in animation or even fiction in general are irredemable.

Edit: Also Light Yagami from Death note is 17 and he is a mass murdering psychopath, so he just makes the age cut. I was going to say Stewie Griffin, but that may not be fair because he is only 1 year old and lately seems more interested in being gay than being evil in recent times.
 
Azula definitly is a young evil little psychopath, though as much as I like her for that, that's all she's got going for her, making her sort of one-dimensional to me thus far. I hope Avatar gives a deeper reasons on why she does what she does. I'm gonna assume it has something to do with power--most specifically sibling rivalry with Azula trying to reach #1 in daddy's eyes.

That said, the only child villain under 18 I can think of at the top of my head is Young Valmont in Jackie Chan Adventures. Okay, so it technically doesn't count since he's seem as an older guy most of the time, but the kid had no qualms on kidnapping and killing and he was like 11 at that time.
 
I know a few of the kid villains that are pure evil brats & redemable from some of the shows I've seen:

Non redemable:
Montana Max(Tiny Toons)
Princess(Powerpuff Girls)
Koopalings(SMB 3)
Shreeky(Care Bears)
Bratina(Pound Puppies)
Eric Cartman/Trent Boyette(South Park)
Azula(Avatar)
Jose(one evil kid from Cybersix)- anyone remember that show from Foxkids?
Vicky(Fairly Oddparents)
Invader ZIM(I.ZIM)
Terrance(FHFIFs)

Redemable:
Bart Simpson(Simpsons)
Bart Simpson(South Park:Cartoon Wars)
Damien(South Park)
Loogie(South Park)
Snively(Yogi Bear Christmas Special)
Roger Klotz(Doug)
Delightful Children(KND)-don't know if they count, but in the movie they turned good before when they be bad again before Grandfather's defeat.
Loki's son(Juniper Lee)
 
Those that said Eric Catrman you are right. I never thought of him like that, I guess because he is not a full villain. He is part of the main South Park 4 gang, and at times on the side of good, for example fighting the the Super Duper Adventures Club brain washing on Cheif.

Though anyone who has an evil twin that is actully nice, is pretty evil.

As far as some of the others that Radical listed, a lot of which I never seen so I won't argue with, but for those that I have seen, I disagree with some of them of being inredemable.

Who was Trent again on South Park? Was he the nephew or son of Dr. Mephisto who had him create a clone. If so I am not sure if I consider him redemable or not. He didn't seem to care about the town's destruction, but he still a young kid and might now know any better.

Vicky - we seen voluneble human side of Vicky occassional, the only time she has gone over the edge is future Vicky in "Channel Chasers", if you don't count "Channel Chasers" which is just how evil Vicky can be if she continues her path, she is not there at unredemable level yet, at least that is my opinion.

Montana Max - I think I recall episodes in which we saw a good side of him. I don't remember much, haven't seen Tiny Toons in a long time, and Max is one of the characters I remember the least, but I think he was like another Fairly Odd Parent villain Remy, who was a rich kid that didn't enough love and attention from his parents. I might be way off on him.

Shrieky - I have seen some Care Bears episode lately, and she falls into the category of what The Overlord said about just now knowing any better. (I am not counting any of the fantasy episodes, such the fairy tales, episodes that take place in the stone age or space) Her MO has been either ruin the Care Bears day, or capture a Care Bear and hand them to No Heart, and let him deal with them. As well as not hurting any humans. Though there was one episode "No Business Like Snow Business" she uncharacteristic went over the edge, and tried to kill a Care Bear (as well as a human kid, which wasn't her target, but her thinking was, if he died so be it) by making him fall off a cliff. I am just going to assume the writer of that episode just didn't get her character. Or she didn't think of the possible fatility of her actions, as a wise old man from my favorite show once said she didn't think things through.

And in the last episode "Music Video" she went to a concert with the Care Bears, and didn't cause any problems, and it seemed maybe she made peace with them.

Well maybe my standards for evil are just very high, that to be irredemable, especially if your a minor, you really have to go over the edge of right and wrong, and understand the consiquences of your actions and love it. I guess characters like Azula set the bar high and / or spoiled me on evil. I think maybe Radical your standards for redemablity is probably higher than mine. Agree to disagree.
 
Montana Max, unredeemable? I'm not sure about that. Max was only typecast as the perpetual antagonist in Tiny Toons' first season, and even then, he had some gray moments. I don't know if this counts, but Monty was given his own music segment in "TT: Music Television"; I doubt they'd grant such an honor to a character of pure evil.

Also, in the following seasons, Max appeared in episodes in which he wasn't a villain at all. "Slughterhouse Jive", "Fit to be Toyed" and "My Dinner with Elmyra", to name only three examples.

Furthermore, there have been examples of villainous characters who have done a complete 180 and become goodies: The White Queen in Marvel Comics is just one example of this.

So it turns out what really determines whether someone is good or evil is: the desire of the writers.
 
I've been collecting some anime/magna magazines, and I ran across an article about Marik. In there it said that he was around the same age as Yugi and his friends, which was about 16 during those episodes. I think he'd fall in the redemable under 18 villian catagory.
 
Lately in the last two generation at least, it is the second born that get the "psychopath" gene, Iroh had the right idea only having one kid. If Zuko is lucky enough to get through the war, get married, and have a kid. Word of advise, the day your first kid is born, get a vasectomy. LOL

I am not sure if she qualifies, I don't how old she is, but if she if under 18, Blackfire from Teen Titans, might be unredemable. No one forced her or raised her to be evil, she does it on her own, very cold and caluating, and we don't know why. In the comics, she had an understandable motive, but this ain't the comics.

On the Batman cartoon, did any of the villains has teenage apprentice or sidekicks? I remember the old Batman live action show from the 60's, there were a couple of teenagers that worked for some of the villains.

One other point about Mountana Max, Plucky Duck was just as much as an antagonist as he was on Tiny Toons.
 
Zim is by no means a kid. By the standards of his race, he's full grown and is probabaly at least a couple hundred years old.

The rest aren't really evil. They're all either just spoiled beyond recognition or just a bully. That certainly makes them iritating and horrible children, but not evil.
 
Montana Max is redeemable IMO. He's just one of those spoiled rich kids who hasn't been given enough affection in his life, but in later seasons when he started dating Elmyra he started coming around getting a little nicer, even though he was still kind of a brat. I just wonder why they didn't use him in the short lived 'Pinky, Elmyra & The Brain'.
 
No other Tiny Toons characters besides Elmyra appeared in Pinky, Elmyra and the Brain; the show didn't take place in the TT universe. The only anthros who appeared in that universe were the genetically altered ones like Brain and Pinky. Besides, there was already a fat neighbor kid named Rudy who served basically the same purpose as Max did on Tiny Toons; Elmyra had a crush on Rudy, but he couldn't stand her.
 
Just for the record, Max and Elmyra were never officially a couple. They only actually dated once, in "My Dinner with Elmyra". Twice, if one counts season 1's "Prom-ise Her Anything", where Max promised to take Elmyra to the junior prom (although he only says this so she'll stop squeezing him), and later, after Max stands her up, Buster & Babs force him to make good on his promise by brute physical means.



Blackfire is unredeemable (IMHO). In the comics, Blackfire was born with a deformity; she lacked the ability to fly, which all Tamaraneans can do, and as such was passed over in favor of Starfire as the next in line for the throne. On the show, Blackfire clearly is able fly like all Tamaranens, so without that back story, she just seems evil for the sake of being evil.

Some more unredeemable kid characters were the Koopalings (Koopa Kids) from Super Mario Bros. 3. They were raised to think that bad was good and vice versa. Plus, none of them ever showed any sings of remorse or sympathy for the protagonists.

Kirstee & Kaycee from Bratz, however, are not purely evil; like Bonnie from Kim Possible, they're just spoiled kids. No more evil than, say, Power Rangers' Bulk & Skull. They could have just as easily been cast as bratty little sisters are annoying cousin characters. To me, they seemed more like goofs than villains.

Bart Simpson is no more evil than a glass of milk. In fact, one thing that I've noticed about Bart is his constant incongruity; Bart will be a rascally lawbreaker one minute and a vanilla hero the next. The producers need to decide once and for all is Bart a hero or an anti-hero? He's either one thing or the other, not both.
 
I think you misunderstood. "Channel Chasers" killed the character of Vicky (matter of fact, I stated as much in this picture). I was simply saying that I do not count CC in terms of discussing her character and I would not count it, either...even under such extreme duress (i.e. my earlier post).
 
I thought your were mad that I mis named the episode title. Anyway "Channel Chasers" doesn't really count, because the future changed at the end, CC is very much like Kim Possible "Stich In Time" and Danny Phantom "Ultimate Enemy" in that we see the future, but history is changed, so that future never happens.
 
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